AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[MrSlippery]

So if I fail on week 2, do I start the entire cycle all over again or just keep with week 2 until I get it right

You keep going onto week 3, did you fail every lift or just one? If you failed every lift at week 2 (9 reps) I am guessing your 10RM was not calculated correctly.

If you failed just one or 2 lifts just keep going onto the next weeks (10/11/12 reps) at that time anything you fail on test day you keep at the same weight. The ones you passed you increase by 10%.

Again if you failed everything your 10RM is off and you may want to consider dropping the weight 10% and still continuing on the same schedule.

[Mbuzz]

Started day 1 of this workout today. Great workout but I have a problem that I was wondering if you guys could help me out with. My back has absolutely no muscle so when I do squats and calf raises it is extremely painful on my back. Yes I am (atleast I think) using proper technique but my back just has nothing to it that that still doesnt help. Any suggestions on what will help me? I feel like the padding they have available for that would help but I heard those are not good to use?

[whiskeysticks]

Mbuzz - maybe you're using too much weight. Did you feel out any kind of discomfort as you zeroed in on your 10 rep max?

For squats, I'd stay away from the pad. The discomfort from the bar will go away after a while. The first week of doing squats, my back was bruised across my shoulders because it's something I hadn't done in probably 10 years. Dead lifts reminded me that I actually had muscle tissue in my lower back. If it's just muscle soreness, it sucks but it will get less intense over time. I always tell myself it's my body's way of saying "it's working". Legs are still sore from Sunday's heavy day, this morning's medium day didn't help either, but it's less sore now than it was yesterday.

But if it's a pulling or tearing pain sensation, stop doing what you're doing and reevaluate your weights and form.

[Voxmusculus]

Started day 1 of this workout today. Great workout but I have a problem that I was wondering if you guys could help me out with. My back has absolutely no muscle so when I do squats and calf raises it is extremely painful on my back. Yes I am (atleast I think) using proper technique but my back just has nothing to it that that still doesnt help. Any suggestions on what will help me? I feel like the padding they have available for that would help but I heard those are not good to use?

Try stretching before and after - I find that adequate stretching and some warmup helps alleviate a lot of the soreness (assuming it's not pain from poor form/muscle damage).

[sdistasio2]

Starting on week 2 of this program tomorrow. Calculating my 10rm felt great. Day 1 lifting i felt like a champ! After day 2 and 3 the medium and light day i felt pathetic and like it was almost a waste of time to lift such light weights. I didnt feel like i had even worked out when i had left.
Now i understand WHY we have the medium days and the light days and i ALSO understand that the first couple weeks are meant to be pretty easy. My 2 main questions are 1. are they supposed to be THIS easy(i have previous lifting experience, but never stayed with a program fro more than a month or so, and have never consistently stayed in the gym for more than 3 months at a time) and 2. if this is normal how do i stay motivated through the easy days? I just feel like im not progressing or getting stronger through the last 2 workouts and it has left me feeling pretty dissappointed.
Tomorrow is my next heavy day so im confident that i will feel better about it all after i lift some "real" weights. Im just worried that the following 2 workouts will leave me feeling just as dissappointed.

[Desparado]

Starting on week 2 of this program tomorrow. Calculating my 10rm felt great. Day 1 lifting i felt like a champ! After day 2 and 3 the medium and light day i felt pathetic and like it was almost a waste of time to lift such light weights. I didnt feel like i had even worked out when i had left.
Now i understand WHY we have the medium days and the light days and i ALSO understand that the first couple weeks are meant to be pretty easy. My 2 main questions are 1. are they supposed to be THIS easy(i have previous lifting experience, but never stayed with a program fro more than a month or so, and have never consistently stayed in the gym for more than 3 months at a time) and 2. if this is normal how do i stay motivated through the easy days? I just feel like im not progressing or getting stronger through the last 2 workouts and it has left me feeling pretty dissappointed.
Tomorrow is my next heavy day so im confident that i will feel better about it all after i lift some "real" weights. Im just worried that the following 2 workouts will leave me feeling just as dissappointed.

You've been on this routine for exactly ONE WEEK and you're expressing disappointment about lack of progression? You must be joking. Try it for a couple of cycles before judging it!

[domoMKIV]

Yesterday was Cycle 2 test day, failed bench and shoulder press AGAIN.
On bench I hit all 12 reps first set, not that bad. On the 2nd set I had a bad grip, did 2 and had to re-rack. Put it back up for another 7 and I was done. I probably could have done it if I didn't have that slight hiccup. Bummer.
Shoulder press was all 12 reps on the first set, hit 10 on the 2nd and just could not have put up 2 more with any decent form.
Everything else passed, squats were TOUGH but it felt damn good when that last one went up!

[vincef]

Just an update.

Today was my test day for cycle 2 - passed all.

Squat: 120 -> 132 -> 145 (YES I CAN FINALLY USE THE BIG BOY PLATES)
Bench: 115-> 115 -> 126
Bent Over Row: 115->125->137
Stiff Leg DL: 100-> 115->126.5
BBcurl (EZbar): 50-> 55->60
Calf: 105->115->135
Military Press: 105->115
So that's 1 test week + 2 x 5 week cycles so far.

I have a couple of questions:

How important is it to be consistent with my work out days. For example, this week I'm doing tues, thrs, saturday instead of sunday, tues, thrs like usual because I was busy with school this past weekend.

There were a couple other weeks where I'd maybe do monday, wed, fri instead of the aforementioned sunday, tues, thrs. Is this OK? Essentially it's just playing around with the gap between my light day and my next heavy day... but it always adds instead of subtracts time from that.

Next,

I'm not seeing significant results yet. I guess the fact that I passed this weeks lifts is evidence that I am making progress though. Perhaps there's a little noticable growth, but a lot of it is a thin layer of fat over everything that I never really had.

To be honest, I think I started out pretty light (I'm a pretty cautious person), and I think I've hit a bit of a plateau in that my body has acclimated to lifting weights, but I'm not really pushing it. I'm hoping to see some serious progress by the end of cycle 4 or I may consider switching to a 5x5 program since I've seen some more solid before/after pictures and friends IRL who have benefited from that program.

I can feel my motivation beginning to wane, especially as I approach midterms (studying engineering), it's getting a bit difficult to maintain the motivation. Any sweet youtube vids for getting my motivation levels up? I feel like the 10/11 week mark is where most people start to give up and I can sense that in myself and I'm aware of it. If I could somehow re-awaken that initial motivation I had that'd be great.

Thanks brahs

[Mbuzz]

Mbuzz - maybe you're using too much weight. Did you feel out any kind of discomfort as you zeroed in on your 10 rep max?

For squats, I'd stay away from the pad. The discomfort from the bar will go away after a while. The first week of doing squats, my back was bruised across my shoulders because it's something I hadn't done in probably 10 years. Dead lifts reminded me that I actually had muscle tissue in my lower back. If it's just muscle soreness, it sucks but it will get less intense over time. I always tell myself it's my body's way of saying "it's working". Legs are still sore from Sunday's heavy day, this morning's medium day didn't help either, but it's less sore now than it was yesterday.

But if it's a pulling or tearing pain sensation, stop doing what you're doing and reevaluate your weights and form.

Its definately not a soreness issue. Its mainly my spine that is having issues. My spine sticks out and even when I try to rest it on traps? I believe proper technique is resting it on your traps? Even when I try to do that it still hits my spine because it sticks out so much. I dont feel like I am lifting to much weight because I can definately squat with it without any trouble just causing pain in that area and I dont want to damage my spine.

[steelmonkey]

Well yesterday was my cycle 2 test day, passed everything except for OHP. I really struggled with OHP this cycle, so its probably a good thing i will be repeating it.

I got the first set without too much difficulty, but only managed 10 on the second set, i thought my arms were going to fall off, what a workout haha

I was suprised i passed curls, but funnily it didnt feel too difficult.

So a bit disappointed but not really surprised, at least i get to bump everything else up!!

Bring on cycle 3!

[CPOner]

Starting on week 2 of this program tomorrow. Calculating my 10rm felt great. Day 1 lifting i felt like a champ! After day 2 and 3 the medium and light day i felt pathetic and like it was almost a waste of time to lift such light weights. I didnt feel like i had even worked out when i had left.
Now i understand WHY we have the medium days and the light days and i ALSO understand that the first couple weeks are meant to be pretty easy. My 2 main questions are 1. are they supposed to be THIS easy(i have previous lifting experience, but never stayed with a program fro more than a month or so, and have never consistently stayed in the gym for more than 3 months at a time) and 2. if this is normal how do i stay motivated through the easy days? I just feel like im not progressing or getting stronger through the last 2 workouts and it has left me feeling pretty dissappointed.
Tomorrow is my next heavy day so im confident that i will feel better about it all after i lift some "real" weights. Im just worried that the following 2 workouts will leave me feeling just as dissappointed.

enjoy the easy medium and light days while they last... now my medium days are just as hard as my heavy days (sometimes harder because of recovery from heavy day) ... im midway through cycle 3 and now i look forward to my light days for a "break"... give the routine time to work its magic...

[mickeymonster]

Its definately not a soreness issue. Its mainly my spine that is having issues. My spine sticks out and even when I try to rest it on traps? I believe proper technique is resting it on your traps? Even when I try to do that it still hits my spine because it sticks out so much. I dont feel like I am lifting to much weight because I can definately squat with it without any trouble just causing pain in that area and I dont want to damage my spine.

Hi Mbuzz, you should watch this video before you squat again. http://vimeo.com/30763907

Mark Ripptoe talks about proper bar placement for squats. He teaches hand position as well as where to place the bar on your shoulders.

Not sure if it will help your back issues but it couldn't hurt.

Skullster was the originator of the video on this thread.

[Mbuzz]

Hi Mbuzz, you should watch this video before you squat again.

Mark Ripptoe talks about proper bar placement for squats. He teaches hand position as well as where to place the bar on your shoulders.

Not sure if it will help your back issues but it couldn't hurt.

Skullster was the originator of the video on this thread.

Thanks for tips, very helpful video. I still feel like I am doing the technique correctly and its just my bony back. I will try to tweak it when I go back to the gym for my medium day and see if I can fix the problem. I swear squatting is like swinging a golf club, it looks so easy but there is so much more to it to get the technique just right haha.

[steelmonkey]

enjoy the easy medium and light days while they last.

Indeed, i used to look forward to the heavy days, now im only on my last week of cycle 2 and im looking forward to the light days, heavy days hurt and medium and light days dont hurt quite as much :P

[sdistasio2]

You've been on this routine for exactly ONE WEEK and you're expressing disappointment about lack of progression? You must be joking. Try it for a couple of cycles before judging it!

I guess what i meant to say is i feel like i wont BE progressing if light days always feel like this. I did SS for 2 months back in 2010 before and i just really enjoyed the continual addition of weights, when compared i feel like i wont be progressing in the same manor.

enjoy the easy medium and light days while they last... now my medium days are just as hard as my heavy days (sometimes harder because of recovery from heavy day) ... im midway through cycle 3 and now i look forward to my light days for a "break"... give the routine time to work its magic...

Ok good, thats exactly what i wanted to hear. Thanks for your input.

Psyched for my heavy day tomorrow!

[Tupperwolf]

Don't worry man. Stick with it. I haven't researched Starting Strength but from what I understand you are going to hit the wall a lot faster with SS than with All Pro's. If you don't mind my asking, why did you stop doing SS when you did?

[sdistasio2]

Don't worry man. Stick with it. I haven't researched Starting Strength but from what I understand you are going to hit the wall a lot faster with SS than with All Pro's. If you don't mind my asking, why did you stop doing SS when you did?

lol i was 19 and "life" just got in the way i guess. Got a promotion at work and started working longer hours every day, started partying too much. Just bull**** really. Been off and on in the gym ever since. This time is different though... i swear!

[zmcpherson]

Don't worry man. Stick with it. I haven't researched Starting Strength but from what I understand you are going to hit the wall a lot faster with SS than with All Pro's. If you don't mind my asking, why did you stop doing SS when you did?

That's not entirely true.
Starting strength will get you to "intermediate lifter" status quicker because it is a STRENGTH program.

So yes chronologically you will hit a wall quicker but in actuality you will hit a wall about the same time physiologically. The principles behind SS are Low rep ranges which result in Myofibrilar hypertrophy (i.e. the contractile proteins, more fibrils, more force) and some accompanying sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. The Progression is very quick due to the strength based nature of the program.

HOWEVER, that being said, All Pros SBR is a HYPERTROPHY program that builds up your strength as it builds size. It focuses on med-higher Rep ranges which science (the real kind not just the bro kind) has proven results in sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (i.e. your muscle cells accrue more fluid) and some myofibrilar hypertrophy. This program is for people who are more preoccupied with growing in size whilst also developing their strength. The weight progression of this program is slower due to its ulterior focus

So dont knock one program or another because both are EXTREMELY well written programs with two completely different aims.
If you are a beginner you will do well on either BUT the outcomes are what you have to look at before determining which program to choose.
If your goal is Strength then the choice is obvious
If your goal is Hypertrophy then the choice is obvious

I think, just maybe, that the choice is obvious

[Mbuzz]

For the overhead presses do you guys do sitting or standing and do you use a smith machine or free bar? Does it make a difference?

[Voxmusculus]

For the overhead presses do you guys do sitting or standing and do you use a smith machine or free bar? Does it make a difference?

I asked this exact question and here's the answer I received:

Do what works for you because there is no shame or wrong way. Seated WILL allow you to get more weight up but does not work the core as hard.
I try to make my torso taller, it helps me keep my spinal erectors really tight and will prevent arching, also using too much weight than your body is ready for will make it arch. I dont do seated because it feels weird.
I use a suicide grip too, never worried about it falling out. I imagine spreading the bar apart too since it helps me activate my triceps.

[TopGearBBC]

so i do all seven workouts each time i work out. thanks... but how much weight should i use the link in the faq doesn't work

[steelmonkey]

so i do all seven workouts each time i work out. thanks... but how much weight should i use the link in the faq doesn't work

I cant link but it has been linked numerous times, go through the last few pages. It is also in FitBeyondForty's signature at the end of each of his posts.

[zmcpherson]

You've been on this routine for exactly ONE WEEK and you're expressing disappointment about lack of progression? You must be joking. Try it for a couple of cycles before judging it!

I agree with you but I can understand the issues that guy is feeling I felt
The same after week 1 but by week 5 when you are lifting 20% more volume than your calculated Max then On week 6 when you up the weights and medium day is your old heavy day you feel pretty good.

To the other dude. Stick around for 3 cycles then determine if it's working for you :-)

[DeezyF]

I feel like 3 times in the gym is a WASTE of money for me. My gym is quite expensive (and I prefer not bussing my ass as far as it is JUST for an ab and cardio day) , would it be alright if I did this EVERY second day?
EXAMPLE:
monday - heavy
wednesday - medium
friday - light
sunday - heavy
tuesday - medium
thursday - light
etc...

[zmcpherson]

I feel like 3 times in the gym is a WASTE of money for me. My gym is quite expensive (and I prefer not bussing my ass as far as it is JUST for an ab and cardio day) , would it be alright if I did this EVERY second day?
EXAMPLE:
monday - heavy
wednesday - medium
friday - light
sunday - heavy
tuesday - medium
thursday - light
etc...

IF you really dont want to do the program as written then i suggest you look to something more like Layne Nortons PHAT. the basic program is a 5 day (2 on 1 off, 3 on 1 off) program and focuses on both POWER and HYPERTROPHY

[FitBeyondForty]

so i do all seven workouts each time i work out. thanks... but how much weight should i use the link in the faq doesn't work

Yes. You do all the exercises each time. It takes me about 40 mins on heavy day and about 30mins on light days.

Here is the link you need to figure out your weights.

http://www.naturalphysiques.com/18/o...max-calculator

[Tupperwolf]

That's not entirely true.
Starting strength will get you to "intermediate lifter" status quicker because it is a STRENGTH program.

So yes chronologically you will hit a wall quicker but in actuality you will hit a wall about the same time physiologically. The principles behind SS are Low rep ranges which result in Myofibrilar hypertrophy (i.e. the contractile proteins, more fibrils, more force) and some accompanying sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. The Progression is very quick due to the strength based nature of the program.

HOWEVER, that being said, All Pros SBR is a HYPERTROPHY program that builds up your strength as it builds size. It focuses on med-higher Rep ranges which science (the real kind not just the bro kind) has proven results in sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (i.e. your muscle cells accrue more fluid) and some myofibrilar hypertrophy. This program is for people who are more preoccupied with growing in size whilst also developing their strength. The weight progression of this program is slower due to its ulterior focus

So dont knock one program or another because both are EXTREMELY well written programs with two completely different aims.
If you are a beginner you will do well on either BUT the outcomes are what you have to look at before determining which program to choose.
If your goal is Strength then the choice is obvious
If your goal is Hypertrophy then the choice is obvious

I think, just maybe, that the choice is obvious

Giving you reps for this post was a no brainer. Thanks for the information.

[Desparado]

I agree with you but I can understand the issues that guy is feeling I felt
The same after week 1 but by week 5 when you are lifting 20% more volume than your calculated Max then On week 6 when you up the weights and medium day is your old heavy day you feel pretty good.

To the other dude. Stick around for 3 cycles then determine if it's working for you :-)

You've pretty much just re-iterated my point. I'm not trying to bust his chops but by his own admission he hasn't followed or stayed on a program for more than a month and he is already expressing concerns after only a WEEk on this routine. Stay with a program for at least 12 weeks and then see if it's working for you! You have to be committed! You have to be consistent! And even then, if your nutrition and rest is not on point it won't matter what program you're on you'd just be spinning your wheels!

[MrSlippery]

I feel like 3 times in the gym is a WASTE of money for me. My gym is quite expensive (and I prefer not bussing my ass as far as it is JUST for an ab and cardio day) , would it be alright if I did this EVERY second day?
EXAMPLE:
monday - heavy
wednesday - medium
friday - light
sunday - heavy
tuesday - medium
thursday - light
etc...

You will not be doing the program as designed if you do that, the point is to have 2 days rest between your light day and your next starting heavy day. You can certainly do whatever you want however your results might suffer.

Doing the program as specified is not a waste, honestly give it at least 2 cycles exactly as stated and see how you feel.

[scubahsteve]

Thanks for tips, very helpful video. I still feel like I am doing the technique correctly and its just my bony back. I will try to tweak it when I go back to the gym for my medium day and see if I can fix the problem. I swear squatting is like swinging a golf club, it looks so easy but there is so much more to it to get the technique just right haha.

Wrap a towel around the bar or use a pad.

For the overhead presses do you guys do sitting or standing and do you use a smith machine or free bar? Does it make a difference?

Standing with a free bar. It will activate all those little stabilizer muscles.