AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[zmcpherson]

This is something I've been meaning to post about for some time, but seemed to always forget. Thanks for reminding me

A lot of people in this thread say that this routine starts getting difficult around cycle 3 or 4. I think this is not true and should not be given as a general kind of advice, and that at which point the routine gets difficult depends hugely on how physically fit you are when you start your routine. If your endurance was already OK, and your lifts were relatively high (for a beginner, that is), then yeah, I can imagine the 3rd cycle is where it gets tough.

Me, for examle, I started with really terrible endurance (compared to what others in this thread started with). Strength-wise, all of my lifts were below 100 lbs when I started, and curls + OHP were below 50 lbs. And here is how it went to me: the 3rd and 4th cycle were MUCH easier than the 1st and 2nd, and I expect the 5th to be just as easy. Been on a deficit the entire time btw, just for clarity.

I'm not saying this to disagree with you lrd3, just to point out that I don't believe there is a set formula for determining at which point this routine gets tough.

I think he means that on light day you are doing heavy weights from cycle 1...
you can really see your gains...
I just started cycle 2 and its hard. All my heavy medium and most of my light days have been hard.

[zmcpherson]

i am following the workout as written, my legs and arms are having hard time functioning after doing this workout but as tupperwolf pointed out its DOMS? anyone else have any tips of how i can reduce the soreness and keep working out

Sorry if i offended you haha
I personally find that occasionally i get DOMS in a muscle but apart from hurting it doesn't affect my ability to lift. I had some on Week 1 and a little in week 3 and just a tad after week 5 heavy day so its weird the way it goes for me

[xkhol]

I'm going to be starting this routine tomorrow and I have a couple questions:

1) When deciding how much weight to lift on medium/light days, should I round up or down when calculating?

2) I've been doing starting strength for a few months now and was wondering if it would be necessary to wait until my 3rd cycle before adding a set of chinups and dips to the routine?

[syncmaster913n]

I think he means that on light day you are doing heavy weights from cycle 1...
you can really see your gains...

Yeah could be that is what he meant, though my point still stands - we shouldn't be telling people that the routine gets difficult at Cycle X or Cycle Y (something that is done often), because this will simply depend on the person in question at which point it will get tough for him.

I just started cycle 2 and its hard. All my heavy medium and most of my light days have been hard.

Nice! Had the same thing in cycle 1 and most of cycle 2 - all workouts were a killer. Once my endurance started catching up, medium and light days have been just that - medium and light. An exception being the 5th week of a cycle - on those weeks, medium days are still tough, though definitely not the light ones. On cycles 3 and 4, I can honestly say that every single workout, with the exception of heavy and medium days on week 5, was a relative breeze.

This is exactly what I mean - what's tough and what's not is different for everyone, at different cycles.

[zmcpherson]

I'm going to be starting this routine tomorrow and I have a couple questions:

1) When deciding how much weight to lift on medium/light days, should I round up or down when calculating?

2) I've been doing starting strength for a few months now and was wondering if it would be necessary to wait until my 3rd cycle before adding a set of chinups and dips to the routine?

I personally round "closest" i.e. i would prefer to do 91% then 87% or 79% than 82%.

its already high enough volume at the moment. Let the program run so then you KNOW what you will need.

[VegasBhoy]

I'm due to strart week 2 of this program tonight but I started the program by using dumbbells only (as I didn't have a barbell) I now have a barbell also along with some more extra weight so should I just start the program from scratch? Ie re evaluate what my 10 rep max is with the barbell? I'm now going to follow this program to the letter and hope to reap the benifits. I must admit I'm a little nervous about lifting a lot of weight doing the bench press tho as its just a regular incline bench I have, so no stand to rest the barbell on after completing my last rep, any tips on how I should dismount as it were? Lol

[lrd3]

This is something I've been meaning to post about for some time, but seemed to always forget. Thanks for reminding me

A lot of people in this thread say that this routine starts getting difficult around cycle 3 or 4. I think this is not true and should not be given as a general kind of advice, and that at which point the routine gets difficult depends hugely on how physically fit you are when you start your routine. If your endurance was already OK, and your lifts were relatively high (for a beginner, that is), then yeah, I can imagine the 3rd cycle is where it gets tough.

Me, for examle, I started with really terrible endurance (compared to what others in this thread started with). Strength-wise, all of my lifts were below 100 lbs when I started, and curls + OHP were below 50 lbs. And here is how it went for me: the 3rd and 4th cycle were MUCH easier than the 1st and 2nd, and I expect the 5th to be just as easy. Been on a deficit the entire time btw, just for clarity.

I'm not saying this to disagree with you lrd3, just to point out that I don't believe there is a set formula for determining at which point this routine gets tough.

im on spred or i would rep you..
oddly i was referring to how my endurance really felt like it kicked in around cycle 3. everything still felt heavy but i felt the largest jump in endurance in cycle 3. and believe me it was "fun" lol...
a lot of things are going to be person specific when it comes to to weight or endurance training.
i hope i never mislead any one by posting my personal mile stones or struggles.

[lrd3]

I think he means that on light day you are doing heavy weights from cycle 1...
you can really see your gains...
I just started cycle 2 and its hard. All my heavy medium and most of my light days have been hard.

this is defenetly true for me. cycle 3 heavy day was great. once i got to my first light day of that cycle and realized the switch that had accrued my "bro ego" kicked in and i killed that hole cycle. its amazing how the mind works.

[syncmaster913n]

im on spred or i would rep you..
oddly i was referring to how my endurance really felt like it kicked in around cycle 3. everything still felt heavy but i felt the largest jump in endurance in cycle 3. and believe me it was "fun" lol...
a lot of things are going to be person specific when it comes to to weight or endurance training.
i hope i never mislead any one by posting my personal mile stones or struggles.

all good bro, your post simply reminded me that this is something I wanted to address. what I said wasn't really in response to your post, it was just a good opportunity to post about it

[Vaylor]

I'm due to strart week 2 of this program tonight but I started the program by using dumbbells only (as I didn't have a barbell) I now have a barbell also along with some more extra weight so should I just start the program from scratch? Ie re evaluate what my 10 rep max is with the barbell? I'm now going to follow this program to the letter and hope to reap the benifits. I must admit I'm a little nervous about lifting a lot of weight doing the bench press tho as its just a regular incline bench I have, so no stand to rest the barbell on after completing my last rep, any tips on how I should dismount as it were? Lol

Yes

[Flat4T]

Hi all

just wanting to find out as i couldint see it after briefly looking through the threads. Is it advised that we take a "strategic decondition" at the end of each cycle??

[Desparado]

I'm due to strart week 2 of this program tonight but I started the program by using dumbbells only (as I didn't have a barbell) I now have a barbell also along with some more extra weight so should I just start the program from scratch? Ie re evaluate what my 10 rep max is with the barbell? I'm now going to follow this program to the letter and hope to reap the benifits. I must admit I'm a little nervous about lifting a lot of weight doing the bench press tho as its just a regular incline bench I have, so no stand to rest the barbell on after completing my last rep, any tips on how I should dismount as it were? Lol

I wouldn't advice bench pressing without stands. Stick with dumbbells on your bench until you get a proper bench. Why risk it? It doesn't make sense.

[syncmaster913n]

Hi all

just wanting to find out as i couldint see it after briefly looking through the threads. Is it advised that we take a "strategic decondition" at the end of each cycle??

It's built into the progression of the cycle, you don't need to worry about that at all - all pro did that for us so we wouldn't have to.

[Flat4T]

It's built into the progression of the cycle, you don't need to worry about that at all - all pro did that for us so we wouldn't have to.

So on this routine i will not need to worry about taking a week off?

[VegasBhoy]

I wouldn't advice bench pressing without stands. Stick with dumbbells on your bench until you get a proper bench. Why risk it? It doesn't make sense.

No worries, DB's for bench press it is then, cheers

[Skullster]

So on this routine i will not need to worry about taking a week off?

Not even one! I just completed 30 straight non-stop weeks = 6 cycles.

[whiskeysticks]

Started the second cycle of All Pro's today. It felt great!

Right now, my (weak) numbers stand as follows:

Squats: 85 lbs
Bench: 85 lbs
Bent Over Rows: 80 lbs
Military Press: 55 lbs
Stiff-Legged Dead Lifts: 65 lbs
Curls: 45 lbs
Calf Raises: 100 lbs

And since I was feeling good afterwards, I did some iso-lateral incline and decline chest presses at 90 lbs each, pull ups, leg press, and weighted ab workouts.

I feel so pumped right now that I could probably run for a few miles and kick ass at it!

Don't feel bad about your "weak" numbers - I'm still there too! It's not about putting up as much as the next guy. It's about building a solid foundation. Slow and steady as they say... Glad you're feeling good, just don't over do it with all that extra energy you have. Keep it up!

[WhatAmIDoing]

Are there any good exercises/streches I should perform to improve hip flexibility/hamstring flexibility if I have difficulty squatting past the parallel or keeping my back from rounding for the SLDL when I go too low?

[Voxmusculus]

Don't feel bad about your "weak" numbers - I'm still there too! It's not about putting up as much as the next guy. It's about building a solid foundation. Slow and steady as they say... Glad you're feeling good, just don't over do it with all that extra energy you have. Keep it up!

Thanks, man. Although this morning, my back has been slightly sore from all the work. But feeling good, though!

And another thing that made me happy was that this morning, I was at 139.8 lbs -- been bulking for the past 6 weeks, and I was so happy to see an uptick in my weight (from ~137.6).

After two rounds of P90X, I was looking for something with compounds but just as structured, and All Pro's has been perfect! P90X was good, but when I got down to low enough bf%, I realized I had almost no muscle mass. So, I'm hoping to bulk for the next couple of cycles (until next Feb) and start cutting after that.

[Desparado]

Are there any good exercises/streches I should perform to improve hip flexibility/hamstring flexibility if I have difficulty squatting past the parallel or keeping my back from rounding for the SLDL when I go too low?

Google Joe DeFranco's Agile 8. It's helped a lot of people with tight and sore hip flexors. It's helped me tremendously!

[PapaPumpkin]

Are there any good exercises/stretches I should perform to improve hip flexibility/hamstring flexibility if I have difficulty squatting past the parallel or keeping my back from rounding for the SLDL when I go too low?

The way I taught myself how to squat was just practicing doing it. Find something you can hold on to and use it to support you as you perform the deepest squat ever. Focus on pushing your knees out at the bottom. Do that multiple times a day and eventually you'll be able to squat without holding on to anything.

[deebee83]

Just finished heavy day of week 4 (11 reps), cycle 1. It kicked my ass. But, this program has been nothing short of awesome so far. If anyone is reading this thread because they're considering starting it, just do it. I wish I had started it sooner instead of "doing my own thing." You will see results, and you'll see them fast. Good luck to all.

[harharhar]

Just completed cycle 1 test day with no problems. I managed to get through but it def felt slightly harder than the last time around with the same weights a couple months ago. Then again, I'm also about 20 pounds lighter.

2 more cycles til I get back to where I was when I last stopped the program and then it's all new PRs from there! Also gonna be taking progress pics after every cycle, so hopefully I'll have something decent to look at after 5/6 cycles.

Heavy day of the first and last week of each cycle are definitely the best part of this program. Feelprettygoodman.jpg.


edit: I know there are a couple other guys here doing cycle 1 test day today. I'm sure you guys killed it too.

[WhatAmIDoing]

Can the calf-raise machine be used in place of the barbell calf raise?

I ask because otherwise I'd be holding up a ton of weight and I don't even think I can *lift* that much.

It seems like you almost hold the bar like you would when doing a squat, correct?

[lrd3]

Can the calf-raise machine be used in place of the barbell calf raise?

I ask because otherwise I'd be holding up a ton of weight and I don't even think I can *lift* that much.

It seems like you almost hold the bar like you would when doing a squat, correct?

try to stay away from the machines.....
you want the bar to be placed exactly as you would for your squats. for a lot of folks it seems like there squat weight and there calf raise weight start out being some what similar. (not always the case)
make sure you are not bouncing the weight up on your calf raises. you want nice slow controlled movement through the entire rang of motion both up and down. bouncing the weight will give you a false sense of strength. im sure i could bounce about twice the weight i can actualy move in a controlled motion. so try to be certain you are in fact raising and lowering slowly and in complete control...

[WhatAmIDoing]

try to stay away from the machines.....
you want the bar to be placed exactly as you would for your squats. for a lot of folks it seems like there squat weight and there calf raise weight start out being some what similar. (not always the case)
make sure you are not bouncing the weight up on your calf raises. you want nice slow controlled movement through the entire rang of motion both up and down. bouncing the weight will give you a false sense of strength. im sure i could bounce about twice the weight i can actualy move in a controlled motion. so try to be certain you are in fact raising and lowering slowly and in complete control...

Where does one actually do the calf raises? There's nothing for me to stand on in the squat rack.

[whiskeysticks]

Can the calf-raise machine be used in place of the barbell calf raise?

I ask because otherwise I'd be holding up a ton of weight and I don't even think I can *lift* that much.

It seems like you almost hold the bar like you would when doing a squat, correct?

I've been using the smith machine for calf raises, get under it just like you would do squats. The gym I go to also has a seated calf raise machine, I used that for a while. It feels like I get more out of standing using the smith machine to do calf raises while using less weights. I know the smith machine isn't popular with most on this site, for me it seems to give a better workout standing rather than using a seated machine.

[whiskeysticks]

Where does one actually do the calf raises? There's nothing for me to stand on in the squat rack.

Grab a 45 pound weight and use that. If not they may have an aerobic stepper thingy somewhere around there.

[zmcpherson]

Can the calf-raise machine be used in place of the barbell calf raise?

I ask because otherwise I'd be holding up a ton of weight and I don't even think I can *lift* that much.

It seems like you almost hold the bar like you would when doing a squat, correct?

Personally I do calve raises on the smith machine. I calf raise over 250lbs and i only squat about 140lbs so i find that to do them free mightn't be safe... As they are one of the 2 isolation excersizes i feel that the can be done on a machine. Try and use a smith (you still utilise stabilizers) but a seated calf raise is still better than under working them using a barbell

[Flyman75]

Heavy day of Cycle 1, Week 5 is tomorrow. Hopefully I can make all my reps.

Got all 12 reps on all of my exercises! Woohoo!! I was concerned about the OHPs and Curls, and I struggled with them, but I got them up with proper form. My wife could hear me hollering at myself in the basement, HAHA! Still have my moderate and light days this week, but next week my weight moves up:

Squats: 110 > 120
Bench: 110 > 120
BOR: 90 > 100
OHP: 60 > 65
SLDL: 130 > 145
Curls: 60 > 65
Calf: Body+130 > Body+145

Get enough food and sleep and hopefully you will nail it! Good Luck!!!

I have my Cycle 2 test day tomorrow, i think its going to hurt, but im hoping to get through it so i can bump up the weights for cycle 3, very excited

I didn't eat as much as I should have today, and I could definitely feel it during the workout. Felt more fatigued I ate a small breakfast sandwich and missed lunch altogether. El stupido.