AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[mistrvi]

Ok I'm about start this program. But it doesn't specify which workouts i do on which days. Which excersizes our on the same day?

Same exercise on every workout day, you can find all needed info on page 1

[aja5040]

This board moves fast! Haven't been here in a few days so if I asked something and someone responded then sorry I didn't respond back!

Anyways I'm on week 3 cycle 2 medium day today. The heavy workout on Mon. was rough (even threw up at the end, but I think that was because the air wasn't working in there and it became real stuffy and bad smelling. That didn't mix well with how hard I was pushing). Got through it all though and I think I'll be able to pass this cycle in a few weeks. Cycle 3 is looking like its going to be a tough one though.

Already seeing some good gains though so I'm ready to get to that point

[chris6575]

Deadlift is certainly very important for back, traps, hamstrings, forearms (grip strength), etc. It is a vital exercise for overall strenght. But it is an incredibly taxing exercise, and should be performed once, MAYBE twice a week on some weeks. And as you said, it should always be performed after squats if they are being performed on the same day. If you look around at various programs, they typically only have deadlifts once a week and many times at reduced sets and reps (many programs only have one work set for deadlifts).

One of the weaknesses of the AllPro routine is that it does not incorporate full deadlifts into the routine. This is because it is a SIMPLE routine, and there would have to be staggered workouts to incorporate them since you don't want to deadlift every workout. But, AllPro compensates for this by including stiff-leg deadlifts. These will strengthen your hamstrings and give you many of the benefits of a deadlift such as strengthening the lower back. So don't feel as though you are completely missing out on the benefits of deadlifts in AllPro's routine.

If you are already running AllPro but are dying for deadlifts, my advice is this - stick to AllPro's routine for at least 6 months. Then take a look at something like Strong Lifts 5x5 or JAsonDB's novice 5x5. These programs incorporate the deadlift properly.

As usual Judge thank you for the response and after reading what you said, that makes a ton of sense to me. I mean honestly when i was in my teens and in high school i never messed with Deadlifts. Just basic squats, benches and lat pulldowns. Funny part is going to jail fellow inmates got me into them and i love them now. But as you said most people do them not all the time and I did them sometimes 3 times a week, however things were different in there and it all depended on who was with me, what weights were available and also despite me reading everything from flex to muscle and fitness to men's health, i never found a lot of info on deadlifts.

Which Is why I like to ask here. But being this is my first real week back, i did a few days of try outs the past month, i don't mind NOT using the deadlift. I just was assuming not doing it, I wouldn't be getting the full benefits of a back workout, but then again i knew many guys who only did rows and lat pull downs and pull ups and had great backs.

Yes I do understand the routine here is a basic one, which is why I like it. So putting in stiff leg i think would be a good idea and very easy for me to use at the gym. Hate to ask this because it may sound dumb, but will another back exercise be good instead of barbell rows?

Just in case for whatever reason i don't enjoy them, I will try a few sets today after I type this. But I mean again I know people will say do them, but with anything some exercises don't match us all. Are one arm rows, like the lawnmower some people call them with your hand on a bench and one leg, or lat pulldowns a good back alternative? I only ask because hey i am 215 now lol and i came home from jail at 180 so yeah time to lose the fat.

But i never did barbell rows incarcerated just because of what you posted before about feeling it in your lower back and a short movement.It just didn't suit me and i even used a belt a few times.

Only did for back lat pulldowns, one arm rows and t-bar and well not like i'm mr. olympia lol but even deadlifting i went from starting at 135 to dam near 415. I'm not saying barbell bent over rows i won't try, but if i just don't feel them will one arm or lat pulldowns be a good substitute? I'll check again tonight to see who responds. As always thank you.

[Ali18]

Cycle 3 Week 5 Medium Day

And **** my life I stalled on OHP AGAIN! Couldn't get the last rep on the second set. My form seems decent, I don't get why I was able to do the same weight same reps last cycle (repeated the weight again) but this time, when I should have been better at it since I've been pushing the same weight for 10 weeks, I stall. This is annoying as shoulder's is where I lack the most meat

In other news, I tried the proper Row this time (parallel to the floor) and still don't notice any work in lats, rather my rear shoulders.

And I still don't see any development in my chest. Passed all reps 2 days ago therefore will bump up the weights to 50kg for Cycle 5 (Had to repeat the same weight as cycle 2 for cycle 3 as I failed C2 test day)

[aja5040]

Cycle 3 Week 5 Medium Day

And **** my life I stalled on OHP AGAIN! Couldn't get the last rep on the second set. My form seems decent, I don't get why I was able to do the same weight same reps last cycle (repeated the weight again) but this time, when I should have been better at it since I've been pushing the same weight for 10 weeks, I stall. This is annoying as shoulder's is where I lack the most meat

Do you do any warmups aside from the squats, bench, and bent over rows?

I was originally doing warmups for all exercises instead of for just those three and when I would do them for the OHP I would stall out every time after the warmup. So I quit warmups for anything except the first three and that has helped me push through

[Ali18]

Do you do any warmups aside from the squats, bench, and bent over rows?

I was originally doing warmups for all exercises instead of for just those three and when I would do them for the OHP I would stall out every time after the warmup. So I quit warmups for anything except the first three and that has helped me push through

No I just warmup for the first 3. Funnily enough I used to warm up for OHP for Cycle 1, passed through to Cycle 2 with the bumped up weight and I realised I need not do the warmup sets. Failed on test day of Cycle 2, and now 3

Would it be a good idea to bump up 10% on the OHP press anyway for the next cycle? Considering that when I repeated the same weight for this cycle I was easily able to handle all the reps up until test day?

[SuperNac]

No I just warmup for the first 3. Funnily enough I used to warm up for OHP for Cycle 1, passed through to Cycle 2 with the bumped up weight and I realised I need not do the warmup sets. Failed on test day of Cycle 2, and now 3

Would it be a good idea to bump up 10% on the OHP press anyway for the next cycle? Considering that when I repeated the same weight for this cycle I was easily able to handle all the reps up until test day?

Try to reset the OHP weight. Drop it 5 or 10% for your next cycle and work your way back up. I'm probably going to have to do that myself and I'm only in cycle 1, but I failed OHP week 4 heavy day, only got 7 reps on 2nd set and now on medium day, only got 10 reps on 2nd set.

[iamerm]

Here's a link to an Excel spreadsheet for this routine. There are many good ones out there - this is just another version that might be helpful for someone.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post723341281

[Judge248]

As usual Judge thank you for the response and after reading what you said, that makes a ton of sense to me. I mean honestly when i was in my teens and in high school i never messed with Deadlifts. Just basic squats, benches and lat pulldowns. Funny part is going to jail fellow inmates got me into them and i love them now. But as you said most people do them not all the time and I did them sometimes 3 times a week, however things were different in there and it all depended on who was with me, what weights were available and also despite me reading everything from flex to muscle and fitness to men's health, i never found a lot of info on deadlifts.

Which Is why I like to ask here. But being this is my first real week back, i did a few days of try outs the past month, i don't mind NOT using the deadlift. I just was assuming not doing it, I wouldn't be getting the full benefits of a back workout, but then again i knew many guys who only did rows and lat pull downs and pull ups and had great backs.

Yes I do understand the routine here is a basic one, which is why I like it. So putting in stiff leg i think would be a good idea and very easy for me to use at the gym. Hate to ask this because it may sound dumb, but will another back exercise be good instead of barbell rows?

Just in case for whatever reason i don't enjoy them, I will try a few sets today after I type this. But I mean again I know people will say do them, but with anything some exercises don't match us all. Are one arm rows, like the lawnmower some people call them with your hand on a bench and one leg, or lat pulldowns a good back alternative? I only ask because hey i am 215 now lol and i came home from jail at 180 so yeah time to lose the fat.

But i never did barbell rows incarcerated just because of what you posted before about feeling it in your lower back and a short movement.It just didn't suit me and i even used a belt a few times.

Only did for back lat pulldowns, one arm rows and t-bar and well not like i'm mr. olympia lol but even deadlifting i went from starting at 135 to dam near 415. I'm not saying barbell bent over rows i won't try, but if i just don't feel them will one arm or lat pulldowns be a good substitute? I'll check again tonight to see who responds. As always thank you.

Always happy to help.

I don't think anything beats Barbell Rows in terms of building raw back strength and mass. The DB Rows you described are a good supplementary exercise for an intermediate routine, but you simply aren't going to get the balanced development and strength you could from a BB row.

As I think I said before, you can play around BB rows a fair amount to get comfortable. You can do anything from a Pendlay row (where your torso is parallel with the ground), to a power barbell row (your upper body is at a 45 degree angle with the ground). Watch a couple videos on BB Row form and watch how the guys really draw their elbows back and keep their shoulder blades pinched together throughout the motion. This is how you really hit the lats and develop strength in the back. You might not feel much of a burn or strain at first, but once you start working up to heavier weight you will really feel it. Stick with it and you won't regret it.

If you absolutely refuse to do BB Rows, then one arm DB Rows are about the closest exercise to it. These are very easy to cheat on, so make sure you don't twist your shoulders to get the weight up. Move it slowly and develop control over the DB. You can also supplement with seated rows. But I don't really know how you would effectively work these into AllPro's program (which is another reason its best to stick with BB Rows!).

Good luck to you and it seems like you are motivated enough to get some good results on this program.

[akamale]

I'm on Cycle 2 week 1. So you've been going for a little over a month; relax. A month is too short a timescale to see any real gains but having said that, if someone who hasn't seen you for a while said that you've put on weight, maybe you're bulking too quickly? How much weight are you gaining each week approximately?

My sister's always making comments to the effect that my arms feel more solid etc, but I can't see it myself. Maybe we just can't tell.

No more than 1 lb a week, If that. But ye ill give it another cycle before I worry about the lack of seeing gains.

[diddlysquat]

Cycle 3, day 2 (medium)...man this is going to be a tough 5 weeks! Still feeling effects of Monday's squats and bench presses and fighting off a cold (courtesy of my 11 year old daughter). 10% doesn't sound like much of an increase but it sure as hell feels like it.

I sense many highs and lows to come in this routine over the next few months...

Hope you're all doing well, whatever stage you may be at.

[max1741]

For a beginner doing his first bulk looking for building mass/hypertrophy, is this program superior to JasonDB's novice 5x5? I'm looking for the best program to start on.

[Vaylor]

For a beginner doing his first bulk looking for building mass/hypertrophy, is this program superior to JasonDB's novice 5x5? I'm looking for the best program to start on.

JasonDB's would be better beginners who have never lifted before because it has a faster initial progression. After about 6 months both programs would be about even.

[EastSideBoxer]

1st cycle down after this Friday. Starting new cycle Monday. Can't wait!

[mistrvi]

Has anyone moved from this to Allpro's Intermediate routine? If so, which one did you go with? Split?

[Labavo]

What should I do for ab exercises? Which ones and at what frequency?

[mistrvi]

What should I do for ab exercises? Which ones and at what frequency?

you work your abs on heavy squats and ohp, but you can add pull down cable crunches and hanging leg raises on your off days

[pinewood88]

Hi all!
Just started 3rd cycle and been wondering just one thing..
Why doesnt the program take into account ones body weight when doing lighter day squats?

[PJWong]

Hey guys! I've been doing this program for well over a year now and I'm on my 12th cycle now. This is an excellent workout and I must say that the gains have been coming pretty well. However, I recently had a wrist injury (mild sprain due to shortened ulna*) that prevented my from going to the gym for about 3 weeks. Now that I'm back, I was wondering if I should incorporate more forearm exercises (I had farmer's walk in mind) to prevent this kind of injury from happening again.

*Having a shortened ulna means that I am more prone to wrist injuries because more stress is put on the pinky and ring fingers. I also have weaker grip strength.

I also asked about incorporating more back exercises a few months ago and I tried doing pull-ups as people have suggested but I am not strong enough to complete 1 full pull-up unassisted (I can do a few on a machine assisted one). Should I even bother incorporating another one (like seated cable rows) and drop pull-ups, or should I just drop all of that and follow AllPro's workout by the book?

Thanks for y'all's time!

[mike_nofx]

Hi all!
Just started 3rd cycle and been wondering just one thing..
Why doesnt the program take into account ones body weight when doing lighter day squats?

Because its not relevant.
If you squat 100lb heavy, you do 90lb medium and 80lb light regardless of your weight.

[pinewood88]

Because its not relevant.
If you squat 100lb heavy, you do 90lb medium and 80lb light regardless of your weight.

Ok if its not relevant next time you are doing squats put 40lbs weight on a backbag and perform as usually. Actually imo bodyweight should be included in % after every cycle as well.

[mistrvi]

Ok if its not relevant next time you are doing squats put 40lbs weight on a backbag and perform as usually. Actually imo bodyweight should be included in % after every cycle as well.

pls go. Have you even read this thread? Your body weight is irrelevant, your strength is important. You have to estimate your 10rpm before every cycle, idk why i'm explaining this to someone who was lazy to even read 1st page.

[pinewood88]

pls go. Have you even read this thread? Your body weight is irrelevant, your strength is important. You have to estimate your 10rpm before every cycle, idk why i'm explaining this to someone who was lazy to even read 1st page.

Ok lets explain it in plain. All im saying that if you are 450lbs and your squats are 40lbs your light days aint gona be as light as oppose to guy who can squat 300lbs and bodyweight is 200..

[surfzrup]

Ok lets explain it in plain. All im saying that if you are 450lbs and your squats are 40lbs your light days aint gona be as light as oppose to guy who can squat 300lbs and bodyweight is 200..

A rather silly question IMHO, but I know what you're getting at. Firstly, it's not realistic that a 450lb guy is only going to be doing 40lb squats, unless he's really all fat and can barely walk or has some sort of knee problems. In general weight and strength go hand in hand. If that weren't the case you'd find average heavier, taller guys finding it much more difficult to walk and climb stairs. You take a 100lb small-sized guy who hasn't trained and a normal 200lb guy who hasn't trained and tell them to do pushups and their totals will probably be fairly similar.

With this in mind, you can consider the difference in your natural mass negligible for all intents and purposes when it comes to lifting weights. Of course for pullups it can be a fairly different story. But seriously do you really think a guy with huge arms is going to go "Oh my, my arms are so big and heavy now. I better take that into consideration and do lighter curls"?

But if you really feel so strongly for it, who's stopping you? Go count your weight together with the bar, and if you're 400lbs and doing 300lb squats then be my guest and increase the weight by 70lbs on any program that tells you to increase the weight by 10%!

[DeltaCharlie75]

For a beginner doing his first bulk looking for building mass/hypertrophy, is this program superior to JasonDB's novice 5x5? I'm looking for the best program to start on.

Jasons program is designed for folk who have been lifting for a few months. It is an aggressive program for building primarily muscle and strength. You can do it as a beginner but the volume is high and you better be prepared for being totally steam rolled after every workout. Due to the aggressive nature of the program a beginner will also have to take more planned deloads to avoid joint injury etc

If you want to do Jason's then best way is either to do this program for 3 -4 cycles and then switch over or do stronglifts and start adding the accessory work form jasons after a few months until you are doing all the exercises listed in his program.

[Nilsdejongh]

Just wondering how i can work out what im going to be lifting? i saw the FAQ Link but it didnt really make sense.. how do i work out what i should be lifting for 12 reps? I havn't been gym in 3 days so im fresh

[FitnessFan76]

A rather silly question IMHO, but I know what you're getting at. Firstly, it's not realistic that a 450lb guy is only going to be doing 40lb squats, unless he's really all fat and can barely walk or has some sort of knee problems. In general weight and strength go hand in hand. If that weren't the case you'd find average heavier, taller guys finding it much more difficult to walk and climb stairs. You take a 100lb small-sized guy who hasn't trained and a normal 200lb guy who hasn't trained and tell them to do pushups and their totals will probably be fairly similar.

With this in mind, you can consider the difference in your natural mass negligible for all intents and purposes when it comes to lifting weights. Of course for pullups it can be a fairly different story. But seriously do you really think a guy with huge arms is going to go "Oh my, my arms are so big and heavy now. I better take that into consideration and do lighter curls"?

But if you really feel so strongly for it, who's stopping you? Go count your weight together with the bar, and if you're 400lbs and doing 300lb squats then be my guest and increase the weight by 70lbs on any program that tells you to increase the weight by 10%!

Well, to be honest there was this programme on the BBC a while back where some skinny guys were trying to bulk up and some musclebound heroes were trying to actually lose some muscle. You're right throughout the rest of your post though - follow the program as is, and add 10% (or as close to 10% as your gym's equipment will allow).

[Highlander2012]

Came across the calorie/tdee calculator on the 'over 35 section', I can't take the credit for this, but I know some of us are trying to cut and this is excellent to work out a good estimate of calories per day, So it might be of help to some of us, also for those who are on maintenance and bulking too.

http://iifym.com/IIFYM-calculator/

[Vaylor]

Just wondering how i can work out what im going to be lifting? i saw the FAQ Link but it didnt really make sense.. how do i work out what i should be lifting for 12 reps? I havn't been gym in 3 days so im fresh

Go to the gym and experiment with the weights yourself.

[pinewood88]

pls go. Have you even read this thread? Your body weight is irrelevant, your strength is important. You have to estimate your 10rpm before every cycle, idk why i'm explaining this to someone who was lazy to even read 1st page.

That 10rpm estimation part did confuse me now, really? You shoud do it every time?