AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[WFKA]

So, surplus makes it a lot quicker right? I takes protein properly at 1.5g/kg body weight.

Yes, it does, that is why it is recommended that you eat at a surplus.

I'm not sure if 1.5g per kg is enough for you. Your weight in kg is 66, meaning you would be eating 99g of protein. People on this forum often recommend 1g per pound of body weight (146g for you); or at least 1g per pound of lean body mass (117g for you).

Am I the only one who's not seeing any improvement in my Chest?

Cycle 2 Week 2, Benching at 45KG. I mean I see gains everywhere else i.e. Shoulders, Arms and I'm not complaining there Just disappointed in not seeing anything on my chest.

On IF diet, have been trying to eat 3g/kg body weight protein, hitting all my macro's. SO what gives?

You're only on cycle 2. Give it some time and be patient.

[syncmaster913n]

IOf course, you should try to eat complex carbohydrates instead of simple carbohydrates so you do not spike your blood sugar level and have a slower release of energy.

That, plus complex carbs are the most efficient carb at replenishing muscle glycogen (other types of carbs either barely replenish muscle glycogen, or only replenish liver glycogen). So if anyone is on a low carb diet (hard to define what is low, but I would say that with this routine it's anything below 100g), and particularly if doing extra cardio, they should absolutely consider taking in complex carbs almost exclusively.

The sticky in the Nutrition sections are very good, but I find that they are over-simplified (intentionally, I'm sure). Which is obviously good as they get the main job done very nicely (which is to sort of "enlighten" a complete noob who doesn't know what a calorie deficit even is), however it's a good idea to personally try and expand on the knowledge in this regard, as it really does make a difference in a lot of cases.

What I'm trying to say is that even though simply being on a calorie deficit or surplus will make a huge difference for most people, it likely won't be enough for someone who's already been training for a few months and is looking to take it to "another level." This may be obvious, but I like to point this out in this thread in particular as most are rank beginners, and I like to keep their minds open for new stuff (I sure as hell know that I could have used that a few months ago ).

So if you are JUST starting out and want to get your feet wet, the nutrition stickies are all you need. After a few months of doing this routine though, and if you start to stall on the 2nd workset of various exercises despite getting enough sleep and despite still lifting relatively low weights, making sure that you are getting enough complex carbs in your diet would be the first thing I'd try towards correcting things.

[syncmaster913n]

So, surplus makes it a lot quicker right? I takes protein properly at 1.5g/kg body weight.

Yeah definitely, a surplus makes gaining muscles A LOT quicker what WFKA was speaking of is in most cases called a "recomp," and it simply means eating just enough to keep your weight exactly the same (+/- 1-2 pounds at most). If you do that, and simultaneously lift really heavy in the gym, you will slowly "recomp" meaning gain a bit of muscle while losing a bit of fat. It takes longer to build muscle this way, but you are also simultaneously losing fat, and in the end it kind of evens out though; so if normally it would take you 3 months to gain 6 pounds of muscle and 1,5 months to lose 6 pounds of fat, on a recomp you'll probably need 5 or so months to simultaneously lose 6 pounds of fat and gain 6 pounds of muscle. These numbers are not exact and they are just for demonstration though however, for people with less than say 12% BF, the recomp will be muuuuuuch slower than what I have just described. Which is probably the reason most advanced guys don't advocate it as they themselves are usually below 12% BF so a recomp would be extremely slow for them.

As for the amount of protein you should take -- go with what WFKA suggested above. While it is overkill for most people and most will usually need much less than that in reality, it's better to be on the "safe side" with this one.

[syncmaster913n]

Am I the only one who's not seeing any improvement in my Chest?

Cycle 2 Week 2, Benching at 45KG. I mean I see gains everywhere else i.e. Shoulders, Arms and I'm not complaining there Just disappointed in not seeing anything on my chest.

On IF diet, have been trying to eat 3g/kg body weight protein, hitting all my macro's. SO what gives?

Like WFKA said, give it some more time - 6 weeks of lifting (of which 3 weeks were really a deload) are nothing in the grand scheme of things. Give it AT LEAST 4-5 full cycles before even beginning to worry about lagging body parts.

[Jdorty]

Q2: How do I know what weight I should get started with for each exercise in the routine?
A: This is explained in detail here:

Link broken?

[syncmaster913n]

Link broken?

i think all the links in that FAQ are broken. here is a version of the same FAQ with working links: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post931039313

[shineo42818]

thx sirs

[abalenger]

Does anyone have an opinion on how long I should proceed with this program? I am about to start my 5th cycle next week and have noticed with this past cycle that it is difficult to maintain workout intensity particularly on my heavy days. I really enjoy the program and have made some great gains. My main question is should I proceed with this program or switch to some type of split routine. My stats for my 5th cycle are:
Squat 185
Bench 200
Row 190
Press 100
SLDL 180
Curl 95
Calf 100

Like I said, I love this routine and was just seeking out the opinion of others. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[syncmaster913n]

Does anyone have an opinion on how long I should proceed with this program? I am about to start my 5th cycle next week and have noticed with this past cycle that it is difficult to maintain workout intensity particularly on my heavy days. I really enjoy the program and have made some great gains. My main question is should I proceed with this program or switch to some type of split routine. My stats for my 5th cycle are:
Squat 185
Bench 200
Row 190
Press 100
SLDL 180
Curl 95
Calf 100

Like I said, I love this routine and was just seeking out the opinion of others. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Great lifts!

Two questions:

1. Are you cutting or bulking right now, and what have you been doing for the past cycles?
2. What do you mean by "difficult to maintain intensity," can you give more details?

[abalenger]

Great lifts!

Two questions:

1. Are you cutting or bulking right now, and what have you been doing for the past cycles?
2. What do you mean by "difficult to maintain intensity," can you give more details?

I have been on a +500 calorie surplus since October, I am getting my numbers together to start a cut next week.
On my heavy days of cycle 3 and 4, I feel that after the 3rd or 4th exercise I get a feeling like I am losing a lot of my energy that I had at the begiining of the workout. Lately I have to force myself to finish the workout and have failed on my press, curl lifts on the 5th week.

[syncmaster913n]

I have been on a +500 calorie surplus since October, I am getting my numbers together to start a cut next week.
On my heavy days of cycle 3 and 4, I feel that after the 3rd or 4th exercise I get a feeling like I am losing a lot of my energy that I had at the begiining of the workout. Lately I have to force myself to finish the workout and have failed on my press, curl lifts on the 5th week.

Can you tell us your exact macro breakdown (fats / protein carbs), as well as what sort of carbs you are eating?

[abalenger]

Can you tell us your exact macro breakdown (fats / protein carbs), as well as what sort of carbs you are eating?

I have been doing 50/30/20, my usual carb sources include oats, rice, potatoes. Pre-workout is oats/milk/protein powder/peanut butter mixed up. When I cut I am going to do 40/40/20

[WFKA]

I have been doing 50/30/20, my usual carb sources include oats, rice, potatoes. Pre-workout is oats/milk/protein powder/peanut butter mixed up. When I cut I am going to do 40/40/20

Using percentages to work out your macros is a big no no. Use Emma-Leigh's post to calculate your macros.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1703981&page=1

[Monyistbitu]

Now before anyone bashes me for this, please hear me out and I accept criticism.

I'm feeling that for a beginner who has great potential during the first few months of weight-lifting, the increase of weight is incredibly slow. For example, on Starting Strength, one increases the weight by 10-15 LBS on Deadlifts and Squats (5 LBS for other exercises) if he got the full number of reps on the previous workout - and you can do this everytime. Whereas here, you can only increase the weight after an entire 5 week cycle. Why is this? I really like this routine more than SS, which is why I'm trying to get a couple of answers.

Also, there are no squat racks available in a variety of gyms I've visited - only Smith machines. Yes, I know I'll be missing out, but Smith Squats for now is better than no squats for now. Since Smith's are less taxing on the body (I suppose), does this allow for me to go ahead and do full deadlifts not simply stiff-legged deadlifts now?

[kevindstevens]

I've been running all pro's workout for 2 cycles now, I am starting to get a bit bored with it and would like to switch over to something new. Right now I'm 6'0 running at 187 lbs with about 15% bf (don't know this number for sure but its an estimate based on that my top 4 abs show just not the bottom) my current 1RMs are the following:

Squat 230
Bench 215
Row 165
OH Press 140
SLDL 230
Curls 115
Calf Raises 155 seated

Am I actually ready to move up to a new program or should I keep plodding along? I was thinking either GST or All Pro Intermediate 2. Thanks for the help.

[BakersChoice]

Now before anyone bashes me for this, please hear me out and I accept criticism.

I'm feeling that for a beginner who has great potential during the first few months of weight-lifting, the increase of weight is incredibly slow. For example, on Starting Strength, one increases the weight by 10-15 LBS on Deadlifts and Squats (5 LBS for other exercises) if he got the full number of reps on the previous workout - and you can do this everytime. Whereas here, you can only increase the weight after an entire 5 week cycle. Why is this? I really like this routine more than SS, which is why I'm trying to get a couple of answers.

Also, there are no squat racks available in a variety of gyms I've visited - only Smith machines. Yes, I know I'll be missing out, but Smith Squats for now is better than no squats for now. Since Smith's are less taxing on the body (I suppose), does this allow for me to go ahead and do full deadlifts not simply stiff-legged deadlifts now?

Honestly I would leave the workouts the same and not switch out SLDLs for regular deadlifts, SLDLs work emphasize your lower back and hamstrings more compared to regular deadlifts. And this routine has a higher rep range compared to Starting Strength I believe so it splits the difference between size and strength that you gain, therefore looking more aesthetic. Increasing the rep range each week is still technically increasing your 1 rep max so you are still lifting more, plus you gain better size and definition I believe than with Starting Strength. Both these routines are good however, just stick to which ever one you like the best.

[Monyistbitu]

Honestly I would leave the workouts the same and not switch out SLDLs for regular deadlifts, SLDLs work emphasize your lower back and hamstrings more compared to regular deadlifts. And this routine has a higher rep range compared to Starting Strength I believe so it splits the difference between size and strength that you gain, therefore looking more aesthetic. Increasing the rep range each week is still technically increasing your 1 rep max so you are still lifting more, plus you gain better size and definition I believe than with Starting Strength. Both these routines are good however, just stick to which ever one you like the best.

Thanks for the reply,

You've convinced me on the rep part (increasing rep every week is similiar to increasing weight - you're getting stronger, and you're increasing your 1RM). But I'm still a bit iffy on the deadlift part, if you mind:
SLDL: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...rbell-deadlift Here it says that the main muscle targeted is your Hamstring, and auxiliary muscles are Lower-Back and Glutes

Normal DL: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...rbell-deadlift A normal deadlift targets your lowerback as the main muscle, but also works so many auxiliary muscles including Calves, Forearms, Glutes, Hamstrings, Lats, Middle Back, Quadriceps, Traps

So on the muscles worked part, deadlifts seem more superior. I've also read that normal deadlifts stimulate more release of anabolic hormone, which promotes overall mass and strength gains in your body.

It's also stated that SLDL are substituted for Deadlift, for the reason that doing Squats and Deadlifts on the same day is too taxing on the CNS (which stabilizes the weight over your body, working your core). Problem is, I can't do Squats, and have to settle for Smith Squats, omitting the CNS stabilization portion from the equation, making me more capable of doing normal Deadlifts.

Thanks for reading. Anyone care to chip in?

[syncmaster913n]

So on the muscles worked part, deadlifts seem more superior.

It does involve more muscles, that's a fact - however a lot of that involvement is redundant considering that the same muscles are hit nicely on the other exercises. By doing regular deadlifts you wouldn't be working your hams well enough (which are not any less important than your quads), you'd also be doing too much direct quad work (which would tip the scale towards uneven quad/ham development even further, while you actually want them to be as even as possible). The other muscles you specified (glutes, forearms, calves, lats, middle back) are getting more than enough work already with the other exercises in this routine, from a rank beginners standpoint.

The exercise selection in this routine is very good imo for a beginner - sticking almost exclusively to compounds, while making sure that as many muscles as possible are getting worked as "evenly" as possible. Obviously some muscles are not being addressed properly (side / rear delts for example, at least in my opinion), however to address those the routine would need to become significantly longer, which would probably deter alot of beginners.

Adding deadlifts to this routine (after having complete a solid 5 cycles) would be an option for a powerlifter looking to compete, because most competitions will involve the deadlift so you need to get good at it. In that case though, you'd be far better off switching over to a strength routine after having completed the beginner routine, rather than trying to turn it into something it was never designed to accomplish.

I've also read that normal deadlifts stimulate more release of anabolic hormone, which promotes overall mass and strength gains in your body.

The part about the release of anabolic hormones is true and proven. The part about this short-lasting release having a positive impact on overall mass growth is an *assumption* made by many - scientific literature does not support the notion that such temporary hormonal boosts have any noticeable impact on hypertrophy. Plus, deadlifts do not have a monopoly on boosting hormones - you'll get a very solid boost from any exercise which has you lifting lots of weights. So squats (even on the smith), SLDL, even the bench press - all of those will induce a release of hormones (not that it really matters anyway).

Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions of course.

[Monyistbitu]

Thanks a lot for the lengthy reply, syncmaster. I'll need to put some more thought to this I guess, but I'll most probably stick with the main routine exercises then. Thanks again.

[syncmaster913n]

Thanks a lot for the lengthy reply, syncmaster. I'll need to put some more thought to this I guess, but I'll most probably stick with the main routine exercises then. Thanks again.

You're welcome. Thinking is good, I encourage it for everyone, beginners not being an exception

Assalmu Aleykom

[cian93]

Okay so I had been going to my college gym for about 12 weeks around the end of last year as well as about 3 months my work gym before that. I was somewhat frustrated with my lack of results despite eating well so I'm slow to get stuck into anything now. I think my previous misfortune may have been from mediocre programs provided by gym staff as well as my own lack of knowledge about pushing weights up.

Anyway I have been out of the gym for nearly 2 months and I want a clean start so I've been digging around all evening and found this.

Simple question: My goal is to gain muscle mass, should I give this a go?

Also, I have been told that it is generally good practice to change up a fitness routine ever six weeks or so, but this one advocates staying the same for five and then starting over again repeatedly. Should I just stick with the exact same program for posterity and if not, how do I know when it's time to find something else?

[HY314]

Got my food scale from amazon today and I think I've been eating well-under maintanenace for the past 3 weeks. I was sure I was about 200-300 cals over, but I guess not. I haven't gained any weight since starting so that should've been my first hint I guess.

[syncmaster913n]

Got my food scale from amazon today and I think I've been eating well-under maintanenace for the past 3 weeks. I was sure I was about 200-300 cals over, but I guess not. I haven't gained any weight since starting so that should've been my first hint I guess.

Yeah, that's one of the problems with being too "attached" to counting calories. It was the scale this time, but in the future it could be a wrong calculation, a misprint on the food label, bad eyesight (making you see 170 kcal when it was actually 110), and many other things If the scale isn't moving in the direction it should be, you need to eat more or less regardless of what the "calorie math" says.

[HY314]

Yeah, that's one of the problems with being too "attached" to counting calories. It was the scale this time, but in the future it could be a wrong calculation, a misprint on the food label, bad eyesight (making you see 170 kcal when it was actually 110), and many other things If the scale isn't moving in the direction it should be, you need to eat more or less regardless of what the "calorie math" says.

Well I have a cheap body scale so I thought that might be the problem. I weighed out my lunch today though and realized that I've been undereating by quite a bit. For example, I thought I've been eating 1 cup of cooked rice, which is about 186g. When I weighed my normal (based on eye-sight) amount of rice today it was only ~100g. Same story with the other normal foods too.

[Vaylor]

Simple question: My goal is to gain muscle mass, should I give this a go?

Also, I have been told that it is generally good practice to change up a fitness routine ever six weeks or so, but this one advocates staying the same for five and then starting over again repeatedly. Should I just stick with the exact same program for posterity and if not, how do I know when it's time to find something else?

As long as you are hitting your macros and eating at a calorie surplus you will make muscle gains on any routine that isn't terrible.

The whole changing up your routine every 6 weeks is false. You can continue on this routine until you get bored with it.

[cian93]

As long as you are hitting your macros and eating at a calorie surplus you will make muscle gains on any routine that isn't terrible.

The whole changing up your routine every 6 weeks is false. You can continue on this routine until you get bored with it.

Is there any way of knowing when it would be beneficial to get off this plan and on to something else though?

[syncmaster913n]

Is there any way of knowing when it would be beneficial to get off this plan and on to something else though?

I'd say "it depends" Depends on how fast you want to progress really, how much time you have for training each week, what your goals are etc. I'd say that the best approach is this:

1. Do this routine for 4 full cycles NO MATTER WHAT. No matter what thoughts creep into your mind or what you may start thinking, keep doing it for 4 cycles minimum (I'm assuming you are a beginner when I say this).

2. After that, ask yourself how much time you have for training per week. This routine here can be finished really quickly (less than 40 minutes per session), so if time is an issue for you, then you'd probably want to continue with this routine for more cycles (until you start stalling on lifts often) as you will still make good gains with it despite the low volume involved (again - assuming you are a beginner). If, however, you have a lot of time and can devote far more than 40 minutes 3 times a week to training, then...

3. Decide whether you want to go the powerlifting or bodybuilding way, and then choose a routine that is designed for that specific goal. All Pro's Simple Beginner routine kind of "splits" the gains between strength and muscle gain (leaning somewhat more towards size gains), so if you are willing to devote a lot of time to training (say at least 6-7 hours per week), then you will progress faster after having finished those first 4 cycles of this routine by attempting a different routine, geared toward your goal (strength or hypertrophy) and with more volume.

Just my opinion though. Some people prefer to push this routine for as long as they can without stalling, and that's fine. Personally though I think that after those first 4 cycles, and if time is not a problem, you will make faster gains by choosing a routine that is specifically designed for the goal you are trying to achieve.

[JKAL1202]

What's up everyone. I am starting my first week of this program (today is my medium lift day). I have a question. I did a hard cut between last April and November. I have kind of been slacking the last few months unsure of what I really wanted to do, keep cutting or bulk. I have decided to commit to a cut until I hit my goal of 10-12% BF, then slow bulk.

My question is can I expect to make any strength gains with this program right now or should I focus on maintaining my current lifts. Thanks.

[syncmaster913n]

What's up everyone. I am starting my first week of this program (today is my medium lift day). I have a question. I did a hard cut between last April and November. I have kind of been slacking the last few months unsure of what I really wanted to do, keep cutting or bulk. I have decided to commit to a cut until I hit my goal of 10-12% BF, then slow bulk.

My question is can I expect to make any strength gains with this program right now or should I focus on maintaining my current lifts. Thanks.

No one will be really able to answer that for you as it will be different from person to person. In my opinion though, and looking at your current lifts and current bodyfat (18%), I think you should be able to keep increasing lifts during your cut, as long as you:

1. Keep following the program as written and not attempt to modify it to suit your cut
2. Keep your weight loss rate relatively low, around 1 pound per week
3. Not do anything stupid such as going on a low-carb diet

You'll have to try it out for yourself though and see!

[MetalMulisha304]

Hello, I am just now starting this. What order do you go in? Do you do all the sets of squats one after the other and then move on? Or do you do a different exercise after EACH set? Thank man!