AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[Desparado]

I searched through the FAQ and a few pages but I couldn't find the answer so I thought it was worth a post.

Since you're doing 3 working days a week on non consecutive days, one of the rests is going to be 2 days long right? I'm just wondering if it's best to take that 2 day break after your heavy day, giving muscles more time to heal, or taking it after your lightest day, giving you more time to rest and be in shape for the heavy day?

I know it sounds nit picky and AP's is meant to be simple and you could take that rest when ever I guess, but is there a best time?


Bonus: Is it normal to not have slightly achey muscles after the heavy day? So far I haven't been aching really, but I'm getting 1-2reps off failure, I can't tell if this is normal because we're only hitting each main muscle group with 2 sets with high frequency in a very progressive way, or if maybe I'm a little lacking energy/runned down atm and aren't able to push out as much as my muscles can take.

Don't over think the program. Whether you rest 2 days after heavy or after light is inconsequential. Consistency is the key. Lift, eat, rest. Repeat. Again, and again, and again.

[Desparado]

I've completed Cycle 2 and man it was tough! I was very disappointed that I failed BP and OHP but I was satisfied by the fact that on medium day (my heavy day last cycle) I was able to complete all 12 reps with no difficulty at all. My lifts were as follows:

Squats: Passed 150 >165. Tough but plowed through it.
Bench Press: Failed 145. 12 reps first set; 8 reps second set. Sucked.
Bent Over Row: Passed 110 > 120. No problem here. Very doable.
Over Head Press: Failed 85. My old nemesis. 12 reps first set; 7 reps second. Sucked big time.
SLDL: Passed 125 > 135. Another kick in the nuts. Forearms, grip and hammy were screaming for mercy.
Barbell Curls: Passed 50 > 55. A little respite but not much.
Calf Raise: Passed 180 > 200. Finally an "easy" one.

I'm sure it didn't help that I had dinner only a half hour before I started lifting but had no choice. The gym was going to close. I could come up with all kinds of excuses but that would be just that. Excuses. I will probably go down 5 lbs on the Bench instead of repeating the weight. My form was really getting compromised specially on the higher (11-12) reps. OHP is always going to be challenging because of doing it on the same day as benching so I'm not really sweating that. That 12 rep heavy day almost had me barfing. I could swear I had instant DOMS! I barely made it to my car. Can't wait for Cycle 3!

[McWinning]

due to the rep changes and such one does not plateau on this? say 3 cycles in?

[Grailer]

So 2 days after saying you can't lift for a week because of a cortisone shot in the shoulder you did your 11 rep session anyway? Oh, and you INCREASED the weight on curls in mid cycle and FAILED. You must be intent on sabotaging yourself.

First of all don't brag that it only took you 4 weeks to raise your curling weight in what would've taken you 8 cycles to achieve, unless of course you are INCREDIBLY gifted. It's more likely that you've miscalculated your 10RM. Secondly, if you ARE blessed with amazing recuperative ability you are wasting your time with a beginner's program.

Using dumbbells so only worked left arm due to the injury on right.

However Since the heaviest thing ive lifted before i started was a pencil I think i worked out my 10rm correctly.

Could just be the diet and creatine + muscle memory allowing me to make these gains

[WFKA]

What exercise do you want to use less than 12kg for?

The first warm-up is 1/4 and the second warm-up is 1/2, right? For my heavy day squat work-sets, it is 22kg. That is 5kg for my first warm-up and 11kg for my second warm-up. My bench press is exactly the same, and so are my bent-over rows. I could either do 12kg for both work-sets for the first three exercises, or keep going from floor-to-floor to do the correct weights. My friend really does not want to go from floor-to-floor and thinks that the proper weights for the warm-ups are too light... I really don't know what to do.

[DeltaCharlie75]

The first warm-up is 1/4 and the second warm-up is 1/2, right? For my heavy day squat work-sets, it is 22kg. That is 5kg for my first warm-up and 11kg for my second warm-up. My bench press is exactly the same, and so are my bent-over rows. I could either do 12kg for both work-sets for the first three exercises, or keep going from floor-to-floor to do the correct weights. My friend really does not want to go from floor-to-floor and thinks that the proper weights for the warm-ups are too light... I really don't know what to do.

Just use the 12kg Dbs. It won't make much of a diference at this stage and will save you messing about.

[WFKA]

Just use the 12kg Dbs. It won't make much of a diference at this stage and will save you messing about.

Okay, I will take your word for it. Thank you for the help.

[Grailer]

If you increased the weight by 55.6% over four weeks then you did not work out your 10 rpm properly. So no, you haven't done in 4 weeks what would have taken you 40 and 55.5% is more like 25 weeks than 40. If you had you would be some kind of genetic freak but seeing as it's only curls that have increased that would mean your freaky genes are limited to your biceps.

Im freaked out too, increased weight 5 pounds on second set during 9 rep week and just managed to force 9.

I figured i would fail to do 10 reps the following week. But when I did 10 rep week ( note this was 5 pounds more than my 10 rep max test and I almost failed 9 reps the week before) the weight felt light and I did first set easily . Struggled 10 second set.

Then on 11 rep week added another 5 pounds and forced the 11th rep. Failed on second set after 8 reps but got assist to complete 3 more reps.

I figure im going to complete med and light days no problem and if i do 12 rep test day to ensure I pass i could deload the weight I used on 11 rep weight by 55% . But even if I fail and repeat same weight ive gained more than the 10% i wouldve gained had i not increased poundages + reps each week.

Even if I fail heavy day i know on med and light im going to not fail due to deloading right

[WFKA]

Im freaked out too, increased weight 5 pounds on second set during 9 rep week and just managed to force 9.

I figured i would fail to do 10 reps the following week. But when I did 10 rep week ( note this was 5 pounds more than my 10 rep max test and I almost failed 9 reps the week before) the weight felt light and I did first set easily . Struggled 10 second set.

Then on 11 rep week added another 5 pounds and forced the 11th rep. Failed on second set after 8 reps but got assist to complete 3 more reps.

I figure im going to complete med and light days no problem and if i do 12 rep test day to ensure I pass i could deload the weight I used on 11 rep weight by 55% . But even if I fail and repeat same weight ive gained more than the 10% i wouldve gained had i not increased poundages + reps each week.

Even if I fail heavy day i know on med and light im going to not fail due to deloading right

Why bother changing the routine? The first couple of cycles are made to be easy. You should be using your 10 rep max. Your 10 rep max is the maximum you can lift for 10. Why are you forcing yourself to lift more than you can? You are only going to injure yourself, blame the routine, and then quit.

Plus, your heavy day on the fifth week is your test day for the next cycle. So, it does matter if you fail on your heavy day.

[RayFinkle36]

Im freaked out too, increased weight 5 pounds on second set during 9 rep week and just managed to force 9.

I figured i would fail to do 10 reps the following week. But when I did 10 rep week ( note this was 5 pounds more than my 10 rep max test and I almost failed 9 reps the week before) the weight felt light and I did first set easily . Struggled 10 second set.

Then on 11 rep week added another 5 pounds and forced the 11th rep. Failed on second set after 8 reps but got assist to complete 3 more reps.

I figure im going to complete med and light days no problem and if i do 12 rep test day to ensure I pass i could deload the weight I used on 11 rep weight by 55% . But even if I fail and repeat same weight ive gained more than the 10% i wouldve gained had i not increased poundages + reps each week.

Even if I fail heavy day i know on med and light im going to not fail due to deloading right

I've ran this for about 6 or 7 cycles. Sounds like you just didn't figure out your 10 rep max. Even in the first 2 weeks of cycles if I felt like I could do more weight / reps I didn't. There is a reason why this program is good if you actually follow it. Changing weights in the middle of a cycle is a terrible idea. Stick to the program and eat good, your not super human, gains take time.

[wtiger11]

Well I managed to find a used squat rack for $80. Did my first ever set of back squats and I must say, WOW these are hard! I tried a measly 85lbs and could only manage 5 until my form went south. I finally found that doing 70lbs was my max for now while still keeping mediocre form. I find it really tough to get my back side down & back enough to ensure my knees are at my toes and not exceeding. Props to all of you noobs out there that can squat 100+ lbs, it'll take me a while before I get there in regards to form, strength & confidence.

[Grailer]

Why bother changing the routine? The first couple of cycles are made to be easy. You should be using your 10 rep max. Your 10 rep max is the maximum you can lift for 10. Why are you forcing yourself to lift more than you can? You are only going to injure yourself, blame the routine, and then quit.

Plus, your heavy day on the fifth week is your test day for the next cycle. So, it does matter if you fail on your heavy day.

But my 10 rep max has changed dramatically since I tested it 4 weeks ago.

That is the problem .

[Desparado]

Using dumbbells so only worked left arm due to the injury on right.

However Since the heaviest thing ive lifted before i started was a pencil I think i worked out my 10rm correctly.

Could just be the diet and creatine + muscle memory allowing me to make these gains

If the heaviest you've ever lifted before was a pencil, as you've stated above, what muscle memory are you talking about? And you are only working out your left side because your right is injured? So one arm benching and one arm press? You're putting us on.

[RayFinkle36]

But my 10 rep max has changed dramatically since I tested it 4 weeks ago.

That is the problem .

No it hasn't, you just didn't calculate it correctly..

[WFKA]

But my 10 rep max has changed dramatically since I tested it 4 weeks ago.

That is the problem .

As the above poster said, you have calculated it wrong. I do not even think that someone could drastically increase it in that amount of time even if they were on steroids...

Use the 10 rep max calculator and guide provided in a link in the FAQ. The link on this thread is dead, so use the link in Part II (FAQ) and navigate to the 10 rep max guide in a link in the FAQ.

[chubbybones]

Well I managed to find a used squat rack for $80. Did my first ever set of back squats and I must say, WOW these are hard! I tried a measly 85lbs and could only manage 5 until my form went south. I finally found that doing 70lbs was my max for now while still keeping mediocre form. I find it really tough to get my back side down & back enough to ensure my knees are at my toes and not exceeding. Props to all of you noobs out there that can squat 100+ lbs, it'll take me a while before I get there in regards to form, strength & confidence.

Just something to note about that technique,
Essentially thats proper form but i dont think you should get too caught up in ensuring your knees dont pass your toes because a lot of that depends on your anthropometry.
What i mean by that is sometimes you can have short upper legs and a longish back relative to the rest of your body.Unfortunately i fall into this category and as a result if i attempt to
squat with knees set back i put my back in a vulnerable postion as i will have had to overextend on the descent to compensate,a recipe for disaster.
Rather it would be better to ensure the barbell follows a true downward straight line path from your shoulders to the middle of your feet and adjust your knees accordingly.Again im only throwing this out there
because i personally came across this problem.You may have no problem with form at all because your physical makeup is more in line with the "norm".Proper form will definately come into effect when weights are much heavier
so for now its probably your best opportunity to see what works best for you.
Good luck.

[krispradez]

Just did my 4th week of cycle 1 . 11 Reps complete for most exercises .

So far increased my bicep curl by 55.6% . Last week I almost failed to curl 10 reps , this week I increased weight 10 pounds and did 11 reps . But on second set failed and only managed 8 reps .


So Im lifting a weight in 4 weeks that wouldve taken me 8 cycles to complete if I stuck to the program wouldve taken me 40 weeks .

Im guessing I will stall eventually in which I will need to stick harder to the program tho right ?

Dude you just cheated yourself

[FalseShadow]

due to the rep changes and such one does not plateau on this? say 3 cycles in?

Hopefully not. You have a heavy day once per weeks, the other two days of the week are deloads. Then after week 5 you go up 10% in weight but drop down 33% in volume, so the next cycle's 1st 3 weeks are also deloads, as you are doing less work until week 3 where you do 11 reps per exercise. On top of this deload remember you are still doing a medium and light day which are still also deloads.

Compare this to starting strength where you are supposed to increase the weight every time you work out, and this is much more forgiving.

If you think about it, most of this program is a deload lol.

[JayRich1]

Hey guys,

Was just wondering if I can easily do this from my home with just a basic weight bench, barbell and some weights? I am pretty sure the answer is yes but is it a big deal if I don't have a spotter or someone watching over?

Thanks.

[Grailer]

If the heaviest you've ever lifted before was a pencil, as you've stated above, what muscle memory are you talking about? And you are only working out your left side because your right is injured? So one arm benching and one arm press? You're putting us on.

On 11 rep heavy i couldnt use right arm due to cortisteroid injection . I just worked left side , did lunges instead of squats and skipped bench.

When i was 16 i used to bench 187 weighing 145 pounds i was hard gainer and didnt eat right . Now 41 weigh 202 pounds eating bout 200grams protein a day and alot of carbs etc which seems to make recovery alot better . But can muscle memory last that long ?

Might just be getting alot of fibre recruitment , but once I hit point where size increase needed im sure i will need to follow program strictly

[Tupperwolf]

Hey guys,

Was just wondering if I can easily do this from my home with just a basic weight bench, barbell and some weights? I am pretty sure the answer is yes but is it a big deal if I don't have a spotter or someone watching over?

Thanks.

Yes you can, the ideal setup would be a squat rack, bench, barbell and weights. That's all you need to do the whole routine at home. I've never needed a spotter. Listen to your body, if you can feel that you're not going to make the next rep don't attempt it.

[Grailer]

Dude you just cheated yourself

On DB Curls

I thought i cheated myself when i added 5 pounds on my 9 rep day and barely did 9 . That means i was using my 9 rep max weight instead of 10.

When i did 10 rep day i passed that on right arm failed left by 1 rep.

On 11 rep day i insanely added another 5 pounds and did 11 reps . Failed second set after 8 reps.

Im thinking i could drop weight by 2.5 pounds and do 12 reps no problem .

Then increase 10% for next cycle.

Its win win . I could be doing

A) 15 pound db curls for 12 reps and 100% pass if stuck to plan

Or
B) 25 pound curls for 12 reps and maybe pass or fail

Next cycle 16.5pounds or 25 - 27.5 pounds


Note: Im using Iron Master Quicklock Dumbbells .

[FalseShadow]

On DB Curls

I thought i cheated myself when i added 5 pounds on my 9 rep day and barely did 9 . That means i was using my 9 rep max weight instead of 10.

When i did 10 rep day i passed that on right arm failed left by 1 rep.

On 11 rep day i insanely added another 5 pounds and did 11 reps . Failed second set after 8 reps.

Im thinking i could drop weight by 2.5 pounds and do 12 reps no problem .

Then increase 10% for next cycle.

Its win win . I could be doing

A) 15 pound db curls for 12 reps and 100% pass if stuck to plan

Or
B) 25 pound curls for 12 reps and maybe pass or fail

Next cycle 16.5pounds or 25 - 27.5 pounds


Note: Im using Iron Master Quicklock Dumbbells .

No offense dude, but what the hell is wrong with you trying to change all this? Just do the work out. I'm pretty weak compared to most around here. I am certainly no expert, I am pretty much a noob, but I believe I understand how the program works enough to try and explain it to you. I could normally curl 35 lb dumbells for 12 reps, but I don't try to after all the other lifts. I stick with the program. I weigh way less than you but from your stats I can curl more. Do you see me screwing around and failing left and right on my 4th week of the workout? No, because I know that the person that wrote this workout knows a lot more than me about lifting.

Even if I DID randomly start adding 5 pounds here, instead of saying how insane it was that I added 5 pounds to my 10 round max, I would realize it's a dumb thing to do since I immediately failed to get my reps in because I increased the weight. I bet anyone reading this could take the correct weight they are using now, add 5 pounds to it and get a few reps and fail the rest. There is nothing amazing about this, it only shows that they shouldn't have increased the weight yet, and should have instead followed the program.

The goal of this program as far as I can tell is to maintain constant progress. Progress by volume of reps every week, and progress by weight every cycle. As far as I can tell randomly adding weight mid cycle so you can lift 5 more pounds while failing the reps is not a goal. Claiming this is an "insane" feat doesn't make it any more helpful to gaining muscle or getting stronger.

What you are doing is like joining a 5k race, jogging at an efficient pace for 100 meters, then laughing, deciding to sprint as hard as you possibly can, and then acting like the other people are dumb for not running as fast as you. After 200 meters you are going to fall down on the ground panting and gasping for air, watching everyone jog past you because you ran yourself into the ground.

I'm sorry if this came off too harsh, but I just want to point out the fact that you are screwing with things that are not going to help you. Since you didn't get your reps on the 11 rep day, you are already stalling on the program because of what you have changed. The program is designed to be easy in the beginning for a reason, specifically to avoid what you have done by changing it, which is stalling. The slower you raise the weight the longer it will take you to stall. The faster and more you stall the quicker you will burn yourself out and the less overall progress you will make. I think you may interpret this post as me being a dick, but if you saw all these people asking if they can just add more weight or change this for no reason page after page you might understand.

[Grailer]

I'm sorry if this came off too harsh, but I just want to point out the fact that you are screwing with things that are not going to help you. Since you didn't get your reps on the 11 rep day, you are already stalling on the program because of what you have changed. The program is designed to be easy in the beginning for a reason, specifically to avoid what you have done by changing it, which is stalling. The slower you raise the weight the longer it will take you to stall. The faster and more you stall the quicker you will burn yourself out and the less overall progress you will make. I think you may interpret this post as me being a dick, but if you saw all these people asking if they can just add more weight or change this for no reason page after page you might understand.

Yeah I guess time will tell , I have spreadsheet which shows possible future progression for 10 cycles with no stalling .

Not too concerned about failing 3 reps on last set , I managed 8 , thats good enough to begin a new cycle with .


Which makes me wonder , why do I have to keep each exercise on the same cycle as other exercises ?

Like could I not keep increasing squats up to 20 reps using same weight ?

Maybe I would like to start my bicep curl between 8-10 reps not 8-12 reps etc ?

[EddieFromEurope]

Warning: grailer might be a troll.
You think you're smarter than all pro? Then modify this program as much as you want.

[Stephen109]

Warning: grailer might be a troll.

and a *******.

[DeltaCharlie75]

Yeah I guess time will tell , I have spreadsheet which shows possible future progression for 10 cycles with no stalling .

Not too concerned about failing 3 reps on last set , I managed 8 , thats good enough to begin a new cycle with .


Which makes me wonder , why do I have to keep each exercise on the same cycle as other exercises ?

Like could I not keep increasing squats up to 20 reps using same weight ?

Maybe I would like to start my bicep curl between 8-10 reps not 8-12 reps etc ?

Troll or idiot?

[HYMENATOR]

Which makes me wonder , why do I have to keep each exercise on the same cycle as other exercises ?

Like could I not keep increasing squats up to 20 reps using same weight ?

Maybe I would like to start my bicep curl between 8-10 reps not 8-12 reps etc ?

This bloke has insanely increased his dick flogging to maximal reps. Spreadsheets have shown he can flog his dick indefinitely in this forum without stalling.

[WFKA]

I've never needed a spotter. Listen to your body, if you can feel that you're not going to make the next rep don't attempt it.

This. Having a spotter just puts you in a mental state where you think that you can do more than you really can. If you fail, you should be fine because the spotter is there.

[Grailer]

Warning: grailer might be a troll.
You think you're smarter than all pro? Then modify this program as much as you want.

I don't even know who all pro is . The thing that i like best about this program is the deloading part which allows you to complete sets on med and light if you fail heavy.

I mean this isnt a religion which some people seem to be treating it as. I merely asked why cant I keep adding reps to my squat for say 8 more cycles instead of incresing weight . I read 20 rep squats are quite good.