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  1. #31
    Registered User ParsleyTea's Avatar
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    A problem that we have with our current Federal reserve, is that politicians are often unwilling to take on tough, unpopular tasks. Instead some politicians want the Federal Reserve to handle economic matters, matters that they were never designed to handle. That is part of the reason why we have had QE1 and QE2, with some politicians now wanting even more money printing - though this has not been found to help spur economic growth.

    "Central Bankers Losing Independence?"

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...-independence/

    &

    "Bernanke To Dems: Put Your Fiscal House In Order"

    http://news.investors.com/article/61...iscal-fire.htm

    excerpt from the article:

    "Leadership: After Fed chief Ben Bernanke patiently explained how lousy the economy is, Senate Democrats said he needs to do even more in the way of stimulus. That's like arsonists faulting a fireman for how he fights a fire.

    nggsFollowing the 2008 crisis, the Fed slashed interest rates to zero and boosted its balance sheet a jaw-dropping $3 trillion to give the economy a boost. Say what you will, the last three years have without question marked the most stimulative policy followed by the U.S. Fed ever. And whether you believe it has worked or not, the Fed did something.

    That's in stark contrast to Democrats in Congress. They blame Republicans for Democrats' own fiscal mistakes, while for three years failing even to produce a budget and now threatening to crash the economy with half a trillion dollars in ruinous tax hikes.

    The Obama administration is no better, issuing budget plans that don't even get Democratic support while, just this week, launching an attack on small businesses and vowing to hit entrepreneurs with higher taxes.

    Is that why Bernanke used his semiannual Fed testimony Tuesday to chastise Congress and, by implication, President Obama for doing nothing about the nation's fiscal ills? Sure sounds that way.

    "The most effective way that the Congress could help to support the economy right now," he said, "would be to work to address the nation's fiscal challenges in a way that takes into account both the need for long-run sustainability and the fragility of the recovery."

    Fedspeak translation: Don't sit there, do something.

    And he's right. Monetary policy can't solve our problems right now. It's reached a dead end. Fiscal policy — spending and taxes, which are the sole responsibility of Congress and the president — can.

    With long-term interest rates near 1.5%, a record low, the Fed can't cut interest rates to stimulate economic growth. Its quantitative easing programs — QE1 and QE2 — have largely failed. Adding a QE3 won't work.

    Yet, Senate Democrats want the Fed to do more. New York Sen. Chuck Schumer called the Fed "the only game in town" and told Bernanke, "get to work."

    Get to work? That's chutzpah on stilts. Congress has boosted spending from its long-term average of about 20% of GDP to close to 25%, while racking up $5 trillion in debt in just three years...."
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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by ParsleyTea View Post
    ...

    Get to work? That's chutzpah on stilts. Congress has boosted spending from its long-term average of about 20% of GDP to close to 25%, while racking up $5 trillion in debt in just three years...."
    $5 trillion is nothing compared to the $16 trillion the Fed just gave to US and foreign banks to cover subprime gambling losses. The Fed did that without congress's help.
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by LizzieTish View Post
    Absent from thread: nutsy54, Mr Beer, HELIX35.
    I noticed that too. They skeedaddle when there is no spin room. Cowardly phaggots. Or maybe it's just break time in the Mossad wannabe basement in Tel Aviv. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136560511
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  4. #34
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    Just a guess but I think FDR sold most of our gold to the Federal Reserve in exchange for reliquifying the banking system. He called it all in and sold most of it to the Fed banksters. DeGaulle found this out and began the famous dollar run on what was left, which led to Nixon closing the gold window. The gold at Fort Knox hasn't been seen since the 1950's and may actually be tungsten bars anyway.

    No gold and a currency that is pure fiat...does not look good.
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  5. #35
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    ITT: We all misunderstand the discount window (which inflates this figure quite a bit) just like everyone misunderstands the notional value of derivatives. Not to mention that this story has been around for a year.

    ITT: Discount window = bailout. Even though there are some major differences. 1. These are short-term loans, held for usually one night. 2. They're backed by collateral. 3. These loans are offered a discounted rate 4. The Fed does that to ensure the safety and soundness of banks 5. This doesn't mean the fed gave the banks $16 trillion. For example, the Fed loans a bank $10 billion overnight and charges them interest. The bank pays them back plus interest the very next day. They do the same thing the next night. Over the past two days, the bank was lent $20 billion but if the bank went under and if the collateral was worthless the Fed would lose $10 Billion not $20 Billion. Do this a bunch of times and you get $16 trillion dollars that was borrowed. Much less was probably at risk by the Federal Reserve because of the short-term nature of these loans which allowed them to lend the same money over and over.

    With that said, people should be upset. The real problem is the cover up, the ethical implications (why don't I get a short-term loan at a discounted rate?) and the fact that banks took advantage of this program. Private banks actually made money off of these loans because of the spread between the discount window rate and whatever return they received from other short-term investments. It is speculated that banks earned $13 billion because of this. Banks should make money because of the spread between account rates (source of funds) and loans (use of funds) not by taking advantage of a totally legitimate program.

    Due diligence is overrated....
    Last edited by Realism; 07-29-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by Realism View Post


    ITT: We all misunderstand the discount window (which inflates this figure quite a bit) just like everyone misunderstands the notional value of derivatives. Not to mention that this story has been around for a year.

    ITT: Discount window = bailout. Even though there are some major differences. 1. These are short-term loans, held for usually one night. 2. They're backed by collateral. 3. These loans are offered a discounted rate 4. The Fed does that to ensure the safety and soundness of banks 5. This doesn't mean the fed gave the banks $16 trillion. For example, the Fed loans a bank $10 billion overnight and charges them interest. The bank pays them back plus interest the very next day. They do the same thing the next night. Over the past two days, the bank was lent $20 billion but if the bank went under and if the collateral was worthless the Fed would lose $10 Billion not $20 Billion. Do this a bunch of times and you get $16 trillion dollars that was borrowed. Much less was probably at risk by the Federal Reserve because of the short-term nature of these loans which allowed them to lend the same money over and over.

    With that said, people should be upset. The real problem is the cover up, the ethical implications (why don't I get a short-term loan at a discounted rate?) and the fact that banks took advantage of this program. Private banks actually made money off of these loans because of the spread between the discount window rate and whatever return they received from other short-term investments. It is speculated that banks earned $13 billion because of this. Banks should make money because of the spread between account rates (source of funds) and loans (use of funds) not by taking advantage of a totally legitimate program.

    Due diligence is overrated....
    Conspiracy theory is much more fun than reality.

    Rest assured that your post will be promptly ignored or dismissed. brb u r a disinformation agent. LOL
    ^pretending to be an independent, third party, libertarian crew^

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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by Realism View Post


    ITT: We all misunderstand the discount window (which inflates this figure quite a bit) just like everyone misunderstands the notional value of derivatives. Not to mention that this story has been around for a year.

    ITT: Discount window = bailout. Even though there are some major differences. 1. These are short-term loans, held for usually one night. 2. They're backed by collateral. 3. These loans are offered a discounted rate 4. The Fed does that to ensure the safety and soundness of banks 5. This doesn't mean the fed gave the banks $16 trillion. For example, the Fed loans a bank $10 billion overnight and charges them interest. The bank pays them back plus interest the very next day. They do the same thing the next night. Over the past two days, the bank was lent $20 billion but if the bank went under and if the collateral was worthless the Fed would lose $10 Billion not $20 Billion. Do this a bunch of times and you get $16 trillion dollars that was borrowed. Much less was probably at risk by the Federal Reserve because of the short-term nature of these loans which allowed them to lend the same money over and over.

    With that said, people should be upset. The real problem is the cover up, the ethical implications (why don't I get a short-term loan at a discounted rate?) and the fact that banks took advantage of this program. Private banks actually made money off of these loans because of the spread between the discount window rate and whatever return they received from other short-term investments. It is speculated that banks earned $13 billion because of this. Banks should make money because of the spread between account rates (source of funds) and loans (use of funds) not by taking advantage of a totally legitimate program.

    Due diligence is overrated....
    The myth is the Fed was created to prevent another Great Depression when in fact the Fed was created by the very people who created the Great Depression. If you are liquid when the value of assets crashes you go bargain hunting, buying up family farms for a song which then turned into the great agri-business combines. People misunderstand Depressions. They aren't bad for everybody. Sure, some rich people lost fortunes and jumped out of windows but they were just medium-size fish devoured by the JP Morgans and Rockefellers, who partied all the way through.
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  8. #38
    Registered User Realism's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by voodoo101 View Post
    The myth is the Fed was created to prevent another Great Depression when in fact the Fed was created by the very people who created the Great Depression. If you are liquid when the value of assets crashes you go bargain hunting, buying up family farms for a song which then turned into the great agri-business combines. People misunderstand Depressions. They aren't bad for everybody. Sure, some rich people lost fortunes and jumped out of windows but they were just medium-size fish devoured by the JP Morgans and Rockefellers, who partied all the way through.
    Never said the Federal Reserve is infallible and who believes that the Federal Reserve postdates the Great Depression? The Federal Reserve made grievous errors that caused deflation, which triggered a series of terrible events, and, if it wasn't the exact cause of the depression, it made the depression a lot worse. I am not a staunch defender of the Federal Reserve but I don't hate it like Ron Paul. The reason I posted was because the premise of this article is based off of incomplete and misunderstood data, which truly is misinformation..ironic.
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  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by Realism View Post
    Never said the Federal Reserve is infallible and who believes that the Federal Reserve postdates the Great Depression? The Federal Reserve made grievous errors that caused deflation, which triggered a series of terrible events, and, if it wasn't the exact cause of the depression, it made the depression a lot worse. I am not a staunch defender of the Federal Reserve but I don't hate it like Ron Paul. The reason I posted was because the premise of this article is based off of incomplete and misunderstood data, which truly is misinformation..ironic.
    You gave a lot to chew on will study it further, this is interesting:

    For example, the Fed loans a bank $10 billion overnight and charges them interest. The bank pays them back plus interest the very next day. They do the same thing the next night. Over the past two days, the bank was lent $20 billion but if the bank went under and if the collateral was worthless the Fed would lose $10 Billion not $20 Billion. Do this a bunch of times and you get $16 trillion dollars that was borrowed....
    It sure doesn't sound like they are talking about overnight Discount Window borrowing. Senator Sanders said:

    "As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world,"
    Joris, who is only a blogger it's true but who apparently studied the full report, says:

    virtually none of the money has been returned and it was loaned out at 0% interest.
    The full report is here for anyone who wants to dig into it:

    FULL PDF on GAO server: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11696.pdf
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/G...-Investigation
    http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696

    Thanks for the correction of course you are right, the Fed pre-dates the GD. But still as a result of financial panics, as I understand it. I guess my bottom line at this point is the Constitution mandates that only the US Treasury shall print and control the currency. The guys who wrote that document seem to grow smarter every day.
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  10. #40
    Registered User LizzieTish's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LizzieTish View Post
    Absent from thread: nutsy54, Mr Beer, HELIX35.
    ^ Look who is still absent from this thread. Must not be anything in the OP's information that can be cherry picked, no partisan angle can be exploited, thus the thread is ignored as if it didn't exist. These epic debate steerers and cyberbullies had plenty of time to address the entire contents of the sources because they've posted in other threads since this one has been up. No excuse.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by voodoo101 View Post

    The list of institutions that received the most money from the Federal Reserve can be found on page 131 of the GAO Audit and are as follows..

    Citigroup: $2.5 trillion ($2,500,000,000,000)
    Morgan Stanley: $2.04 trillion ($2,040,000,000,000)
    Merrill Lynch: $1.949 trillion ($1,949,000,000,000)
    Bank of America: $1.344 trillion ($1,344,000,000,000)
    Barclays PLC (United Kingdom): $868 billion ($868,000,000,000)
    Bear Sterns: $853 billion ($853,000,000,000)
    Goldman Sachs: $814 billion ($814,000,000,000)
    Royal Bank of Scotland (UK): $541 billion ($541,000,000,000)
    JP Morgan Chase: $391 billion ($391,000,000,000)
    Deutsche Bank (Germany): $354 billion ($354,000,000,000)
    UBS (Switzerland): $287 billion ($287,000,000,000)
    Credit Suisse (Switzerland): $262 billion ($262,000,000,000)
    Lehman Brothers: $183 billion ($183,000,000,000)
    Bank of Scotland (United Kingdom): $181 billion ($181,000,000,000)
    BNP Paribas (France): $175 billion ($175,000,000,000)

    and many many more including banks in Belgium of all places

    View the 266-page GAO audit of the Federal Reserve(July 21st, 2011):http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/G...-Investigation

    Source: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696
    FULL PDF on GAO server: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11696.pdf
    Senator Sander’s Article: http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/n...3-62060dcbb3c3

    ------------------

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  12. #42
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    ...and people wonder why we have knee jerk reactions to more tax increases, that ultimately result in no improvements domestically of existing infrastructure.
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    Originally Posted by LizzieTish View Post
    ^ Look who is still absent from this thread. Must not be anything in the OP's information that can be cherry picked, no partisan angle can be exploited, thus the thread is ignored as if it didn't exist. These epic debate steerers and cyberbullies had plenty of time to address the entire contents of the sources because they've posted in other threads since this one has been up. No excuse.
    Nutphaggotry will ignore anything that rustles his jimmies, such as the thread that exposed him as a partisan hack
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    Originally Posted by UThinkImCute View Post
    Lmfao! That's was in direct response to OP, which is about Bush.

    Still endlessly proving you're a partisan-hack?
    Interesting you have to bring up Obama while no one is even trying to defend him.
    You "insane partisan jackass"
    If you rep or neg me you're a phaggot (srs)

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    Originally Posted by voodoo101 View Post
    Joris, who is only a blogger it's true but who apparently studied the full report, says:



    The full report is here for anyone who wants to dig into it:

    FULL PDF on GAO server: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11696.pdf
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/G...-Investigation
    http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696
    Joris is wrong.

    Read the page right before the table of contents, it tells you the peak amount of dollars outstanding and the current balances. A lot of the "bailout" also includes QE, which everyone knows about. Read the pages around pg. 131 as well. Like I said earlier, due diligence is overrated...why do your own research when you can take your facts from the insane horse's mouth?
    Last edited by Realism; 07-30-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Realism View Post
    Joris is wrong.

    Read the page right before the table of contents, it tells you the peak amount of dollars outstanding and the current balances. A lot of the "bailout" also includes QE, which everyone knows about. Read the pages around pg. 131 as well. Like I said earlier, due diligence is overrated...why do your own research when you can take your facts from the insane horse's mouth?
    can you cut and paste the pertinent passages from the report?
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    Originally Posted by Realism View Post
    Like I said earlier, due diligence is overrated...why do your own research when you can take your facts from the insane horse's mouth?
    Originally Posted by voodoo101 View Post
    can you cut and paste the pertinent passages from the report?












    Originally Posted by Realism View Post
    Like I said earlier, due diligence is overrated...why do your own research when you can take your facts from the insane horse's mouth?





    Originally Posted by voodoo101 View Post
    can you cut and paste the pertinent passages from the report?







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    Originally Posted by TheOneArmedMan View Post
    In b4 Nusty sais this isn't proof and denies it.
    Yeah, he is one of those turn-the-other cheek christians, what a pity, he will see his preprogrammed ways are the ways of the slave man, and will change in the future.

    Anyways, this is classic Jewry being exposed. Who owns the Federal Reserve's? The Jews. They started them all around the world. Simple facts.
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    Originally Posted by lifethirst View Post
    I don't think Nutsy has the balls to come into this thread
    You all are right. Been a few days now and he is strangely silent on this thread. Wonder why.
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  19. #49
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    when will the public learn that the government is its own private industry, it will do whatever it wants and the entire population has no say in anything. why bother even voting? each candidate has their own agenda and will do what they want, and 90% of what they do is behind our back anyways. doesnt matter who you vote for, nobody does whats in the "greater good" anymore.
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    Originally Posted by y0lked View Post
    when will the public learn that the government is its own private industry, it will do whatever it wants and the entire population has no say in anything. why bother even voting? each candidate has their own agenda and will do what they want, and 90% of what they do is behind our back anyways. doesnt matter who you vote for, nobody does whats in the "greater good" anymore.
    Sounds like the kind of talk you heard before the American Revolution.
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