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  1. #1
    Registered User npaoun's Avatar
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    Gun Control and Wealth

    I thought of this with all the new attention paid towards the gun control debate.

    1. Say we make guns more expensive to obtain. Perhaps we tax guns, or limit their supply, increasing the firearm's price. We also tax bullets, increasing their price. Increase the amount of paperwork and regulations that a firearm dealer must comply with, so that it increases their expenses, and thus prices. Firearms and their accessories are now more expensive.

    Now, the distribution of goods and services in the economy is based on willingness and ability to pay. If you can't afford it, you don't buy it. If you aren't willing to buy it, you don't buy it.

    Now, we have made firearms and their accessories more expensive. Those that will be capable of purchasing them are those that are most capable of paying--those that are wealthier. Certainly, the poor would have much greater difficulty purchsing firearms.

    So, now those that are wealtheir are the most well-armed, and we have increased their power.

    2. There is a full ban on weapons. The government is the only entity capable of owning and using firearms legally.

    Many ITF would say the government is bought and sold by corporations/the wealthy.

    In banning guns and concentrating sole ownership to the government, haven't we really just provided a powerful tool for the wealthy? They have this monopoly on force over the rest of us?

    Thoughts?

    EDIT: Assume that these control measures work as stated.

    Cliffs:

    Gun control makes the wealthy more powerful.
    Last edited by npaoun; 07-23-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User ProLibertas's Avatar
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    First you'd have to get it to work, before you argue the implications. The government does not have a good history with banning or restricting access to things.
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    Registered User npaoun's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ProLibertas View Post
    First you'd have to get it to work, before you argue the implications. The government does not have a good history with banning or restricting access to things.
    Assume it works for the argument's sake.

    If the conclusions are true, shouldn't liberals logically be against gun control?
    The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. - F.A. Hayek

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    Registered User Tekkendo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by npaoun View Post
    Assume it works for the argument's sake.

    If the conclusions are true, shouldn't liberals logically be against gun control?
    You made the mistake of assuming the 'liberals' are not rich.

    For a long time, staunch anti gun liberal Dianne Feinstein was the few people in CA with a CCW. Ironic, huh?
    ^pretending to be an independent, third party, libertarian crew^

    "When misguided public opinion honors what is despicable and despises what is honorable, punishes virtue and rewards vice, encourages what is harmful and discourages what is useful, applauds falsehood and smothers truth under indifference or insult, a nation turns its back on progress and can be restored only by the terrible lessons of catastrophe." … Frederic Bastiat
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    Originally Posted by Tekkendo View Post
    You made the mistake of assuming the 'liberals' are not rich.

    For a long time, staunch anti gun liberal Dianne Feinstein was the few people in CA with a CCW. Ironic, huh?
    Lol.

    Wow.

    Can't say I'm necessarily surprised, though. This attitude seems very common among liberals, just the ol' superiority complex. Do as I say, not as I do.
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  6. #6
    Registered User npaoun's Avatar
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    bumping for day crew
    The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. - F.A. Hayek

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    Originally Posted by npaoun View Post
    Assume it works for the argument's sake.

    If the conclusions are true, shouldn't liberals logically be against gun control?
    Any liberal that thinks gun control works, isn't logical enough to look at your conclusions and change their position.
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    Registered User Ramoneb87's Avatar
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    If they make guns more expensive people will just find a cheaper source, mexico. Same thing will happen if they make them illegal, since when has making fireworks illegal stopped us from going to mexico to get the good chit
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    To be fair, you rarely see a full auto in a shooting. Why? Not because they're hard to obtain but because they're so fukn expensive.
    Last edited by gixxer0.6g; 07-23-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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  10. #10
    Registered User npaoun's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by r0gue6 View Post
    Any liberal that thinks gun control works, isn't logical enough to look at your conclusions and change their position.
    Originally Posted by Ramoneb87 View Post
    If they make guns more expensive people will just find a cheaper source, mexico. Same thing will happen if they make them illegal, since when has making fireworks illegal stopped us from going to mexico to get the good chit
    I edited the OP. Assume that control works. We are only concerned with the logic of their position. I think most people that advocate for gun control do so because they believe it works to a considerable degree.

    Originally Posted by gixxer0.6g View Post
    To be fair, you rarely see a full auto in a shooting. Why? Not because they're necessarily hard to obtain but because they're so fukn expensive.
    Did you read the OP? I never even mentioned assault weapons.
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  11. #11
    Banned gixxer0.6g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by npaoun View Post
    Did you read the OP? I never even mentioned assault weapons.
    Last time I checked an assault rifle was a firearm.

    This


    This


    and this


    All basically shoot the same round. But when you put some black plastic around it and extend the magazine it's an "assault rifle"
    Last edited by gixxer0.6g; 07-23-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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  12. #12
    Registered User npaoun's Avatar
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    Ok, but how is that relevant to the OP?
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    Originally Posted by npaoun View Post
    I thought of this...
    Cliffs:

    Gun control makes the wealthy more powerful.
    [edited down for space]

    in a static environment i see your argument making a lot of sense, but many who support gun control don't only seek reform on that singular topic.

    for your hypo specifically, it is common for someone to hold the belief that gun control is good while also seeking campaign reform, lobbyist issues, etc. i personally wouldn't fault the logic of that person, but it seems like you paint that person as standing on poor support unless ALL of their political goals come true.

    while i am trying to properly frame your position and apologize if i'm off, is this an inference you're making?
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    Did not read.

    Second Amendment.

    Get the f*ck out of America if you don't like it.
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    Registered User npaoun's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lee4 View Post
    [edited down for space]

    in a static environment i see your argument making a lot of sense, but many who support gun control don't only seek reform on that singular topic.

    for your hypo specifically, it is common for someone to hold the belief that gun control is good while also seeking campaign reform, lobbyist issues, etc. i personally wouldn't fault the logic of that person, but it seems like you paint that person as standing on poor support unless ALL of their political goals come true.

    while i am trying to properly frame your position and apologize if i'm off, is this an inference you're making?
    This seems fair. A person that advocates for those other issues would certainly show logical consistency in regards to a total ban.

    I think that a tax on weapons and accessories would still leave the first situation to clash with other liberal goals though. Wealthier people would still be more capable of purchasing weapons more easily than others. This is the case now, but increasing the price of firearms and accessories would mean that many people that can afford them now would not be able to afford them post-ban. The policy would serve to concentrate firearm ownership higher in the income distribution.
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    Originally Posted by npaoun View Post
    This seems fair. A person that advocates for those other issues would certainly show logical consistency in regards to a total ban.

    I think that a tax on weapons and accessories would still leave the first situation to clash with other liberal goals though. Wealthier people would still be more capable of purchasing weapons more easily than others. This is the case now, but increasing the price of firearms and accessories would mean that many people that can afford them now would not be able to afford them post-ban. The policy would serve to concentrate firearm ownership higher in the income distribution.
    absolutely.

    creating incentive via tax/price control can have damaging repercussions arguably in more arenas than simply hypothetical gun control. say... education?
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    Originally Posted by lee4 View Post
    absolutely.

    creating incentive via tax/price control can have damaging repercussions arguably in more arenas than simply hypothetical gun control. say... education?
    i totally agree with you.
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    Originally Posted by ScubaStevo View Post
    Did not read.

    Second Amendment.

    Get the f*ck out of America if you don't like it.

    The OP is against gun control, not for it.

    You know what kind of people don't like reading? Communists.

    Thanks for coming clean you communist scum.
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