Milone79's Journey back to the Pro Stage.

[Milone79]

thats exactly what seems to be happening to me I am just trying to figure out if there is a scientific reason behind it or if anyone else has experienced this.....

[The Solution]

I understand that...what I don't get is calories were kept the same on the high carb low fat and high fat low carb days....pretty much bang on equal...why is my body heavier/smoother on the high fat/low carb days and leaner/lighter on the high carb days??

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...he-ltdfle.html

Your still experiencing the effect, Dont sweat it.. its normal. You dont need to get nervous and send me a PM Asking for help.
Its common after long term dieting.

Sometimes higher carb days will help fill out the muscles from the lower carb days just like when you carb up for a show causing you to look tighter.

how do you people look when carbing up for a show? Filled out and vascular
How do people respond to cheat meals when dieting, they look better

What happesn to people who pig out after their show and wake up looking better? Glycogen and filling out their frame.


"Anyone who has had the headache-inducing misfortune of reading (or trying to read) Supertraining by Mel Siff and Yuri Verkoshansky may have a clue where I’m going with this section heading. In that book, one topic that is discussed rather endlessly is the long-term delayed training effect (LTDTE), a phenomenon whereby strength/performance gains often show up considerably (e.g. 2-4 weeks) after the heavy training has been done. This can actually be explained fairly simply through a two-model fitness/fatigue theory of adaptation but I’m getting way off track.
LTDFLE stands for Long-Term Delayed Fat Loss Effect (I’d note that I have also seen a LTDGE which is a Long-Term Delayed Growth Effect but that’s another topic for another article). Basically, this is the phenomenon whereby fat loss continues to occur even after the diet has been ended and/or calories have been raised back towards/to maintenance or even above. In the same way that fitness sometimes continues to increase after the period of heavy loading, it’s almost as if there is some type of fat loss inertia whereby the diet continues working even after the person ends it.
Now, I talked about a similar phenomenon in the article Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat, a situation where, usually after the diet is broken (for a meal or a day), folks often wake up lighter and leaner. But that’s more of an acute thing that I think can clearly be related to water retention/the release of such that happens when people break their diets (deliberately or otherwise).
The LTDFLE is a bit different and can last from 4-7 days (on average). During that time, and note that this only happens after fairly prolonged dieting, as calories are brought up, people continue to get visibly and measurably leaner. Skinfolds continue to drop, other measurements will continue to change in the direction of a decreased body fat.
I’ve observed the LTDFLE in myself, in trainees/clients and it’s something that a lot of bodybuilders (depending on how nuts they go) experience in the first few days after a show. After all that work, after all that effort, they end up looking their best 2-3 days after the post-contest binge has started.
In fact, there’s actually even a weird study from back in the late-90′s that saw this although the researchers had no clue what was actually going on (because nutrition researchers don’t read enough basic science/endocrinology). In it, folks were dieted hard for 4 weeks and then progressively refed (raising calories over the 5th week towards maintenance). Body weight kept going down in Week 5 despite the gradually increasing calories (as I recall, they didn’t measure body composition)."

[Milone79]

thanks for the reply Bob and for all the great info...the thing I can't figure out though on all days total calories are equal just the macros are changed around a bit...I thought this effect that I am experiencing flew in the face of everything I had come to learn....would this still apply??

[The Solution]

I thought this effect that I am experiencing flew in the face of everything I had come to learn....would this still apply??

Where did you so called "Learn" This information?
Everyone responds different dude.. maybe you are more tolerant to carbs and it suits you better like they do me. I experience the same thing as you regarding higher carbs and higher fats.. Higher fats = look worse and watery.. Higher carb the 100% opposite, this is called "Learning your body"

What you read about someone else or a majority does not always apply to you.

[ThailandBrah]

Where did you so called "Learn" This information?
Everyone responds different dude.. maybe you are more tolerant to carbs and it suits you better like they do me. I experience the same thing as you regarding higher carbs and higher fats.. Higher fats = look worse and watery.. Higher carb the 100% opposite, this is called "Learning your body"

What you read about someone else or a majority does not always apply to you.

How do you fella's support natural hormone production like testosterone when you eat such very little fats?

[Milone79]

Where did you so called "Learn" This information?
Everyone responds different dude.. maybe you are more tolerant to carbs and it suits you better like they do me. I experience the same thing as you regarding higher carbs and higher fats.. Higher fats = look worse and watery.. Higher carb the 100% opposite, this is called "Learning your body"

What you read about someone else or a majority does not always apply to you.

Great point and what works for "you" one year does not necessarily work again the next...

[Milone79]

How do you fella's support natural hormone production like testosterone when you eat such very little fats?

Ha...just accept that its gonna be in the dumps for a while for the prep..I havent had a libido in months and can't remember the last time I had morning wood....feelsterribleman.jpg..... tried DAA, Tribulis etc. did absolutley NOTHING for me....

On another note last nite I got back to the gym for some srs business

Squats-3x6 (365 lbs) lower back was sore all day so I took physiotherpaist's advice and didnt go super heavy..
Leg press-2x10 (9plates per side cybex machine)

Stiff leg deadlifts- 3x6 (2 plates and 25 per side)
Laying leg curls 2x10 (150lbs)

Standing calf raises 3x6
Seated calf raises 2x10

crunches/leg raises x 3x15 each

Felt great!!!!! macros last night were F-56g CHO-260g Pro-198g

Morning B.W. 186 lbs (down 2 lbs. again) tighter and vasular as hell!!! I guess more carbs less fat is my formula...

[The Solution]

Great point and what works for "you" one year does not necessarily work again the next...

Morning B.W. 186 lbs (down 2 lbs. again) tighter and vasular as hell!!! I guess more carbs less fat is my formula...

Which brings me to this...
I diet on around 50g of fat year round (contest and offseason) just suits me.

[Milone79]

Dayummm thats great to know....I was under the misconception that I needed so much more...ie. B.W.x.45 for total number of fat grams....arggggg

[ThailandBrah]

Which brings me to this...
I diet on around 50g of fat year round (contest and offseason) just suits me.

How do you feel mentally and side effect wise? is hormone production still good are did you like many others just accept it and turn to HRT?

I feel like thats the one thing thats not let me get super vascular and shredded below 10%, but at the same time when I tried it I felt like criap and as milone said no libido, etc. Which changed within a couple weeks once I jumped fat back over 100g per day.

[The Solution]

How do you feel mentally and side effect wise? is hormone production still good are did you like many others just accept it and turn to HRT?

If i felt like crap why would i do it? if i am getting the best results utilizing this method why fix what aint broken. I have tried every aspect while dieting, bulking, keeping weight the same (recomp), higher fat makes me feel terrible, lethargic, bloated, and my gym performance is terrible. I am just reading MY BODY and what WORKS FOR ME.

My blood levels are fine i get my bloodwork done every month (as i state in my journal 100's of times which is in my sig) because my mom is a medical technologist, so i have good medical insurance.

I tried it I felt like criap and as milone said no libido, etc. Which changed within a couple weeks once I jumped fat back over 100g per day.

ok, and this is you, not me so what works for you does not always apply to X or Y. Or that guy curling in the squat rack. Everyone reacts different hence why "The body is not a textbook".

[Milone79]

Great info Bob, much appreciated...same macros last night again and woke up at 186 again..super dry/vascular...so I think G of fat is my max for now...I even had a few "extra" carbs last night..small piece of chocolate and scoop of frozen yogurt....to celebrate the end of my paid photo shoot and start of reverse diet..

After 30 minutes at the photo studio doing a shoot for Precision Nutrition (easiest $200 I ever made) I headed to the gym...been following this new Upper/Lower split which I plan on doing for the duration of my reverse diet 6-8 weeks...less volume than the one I was doing pre-contest and so far I am LOVING it!!!!

Back- Yates rows 3x6 (290 lbs) actually did 3 plates for first set but lowered weight as lower back was still sore from squats.. reverse grip chins 2x12 (205 lbs)

Chest-Flat Barbell Bench 2x6 (275 lbs.)....incline smith press 2x10 (will do dumbbells next time...just feel it way more in the pecs...

Triceps-Dips 2x AMAP so I got 11, 15 reps

Biceps- Preacher curls 2x10

thats it!!! simple, no direct shoulder work (mine were pretty fried from the pressing anyhow...so I did one set of reverse flyes and pec dec flyes and one set of single arm machine preacher curls and I was done....took maybe a total of one hour including warm up and stretching afterwards....felt awesome!!!

As I stated woke up this morning 186 lbs...did 20 minutes of stationary bike and some abs work...have a nice session of physiotherapy tonight for 1 full hour of ART.. :-)

[JasonDB]

Ha...just accept that its gonna be in the dumps for a while for the prep..I havent had a libido in months and can't remember the last time I had morning wood....feelsterribleman.jpg..... tried DAA, Tribulis etc. did absolutley NOTHING for me....

On another note last nite I got back to the gym for some srs business

Squats-3x6 (365 lbs) lower back was sore all day so I took physiotherpaist's advice and didnt go super heavy..
Leg press-2x10 (9plates per side cybex machine)

Stiff leg deadlifts- 3x6 (2 plates and 25 per side)
Laying leg curls 2x10 (150lbs)

Standing calf raises 3x6
Seated calf raises 2x10

crunches/leg raises x 3x15 each

Felt great!!!!! macros last night were F-56g CHO-260g Pro-198g

Morning B.W. 186 lbs (down 2 lbs. again) tighter and vasular as hell!!! I guess more carbs less fat is my formula...

If you weren't so hell-bent on staying 100% natty I would suggest doing a full legit PCT for a month after a contest prep. LoL

[Milone79]

lol..yea I know of one other "Natty" who did this cause he fried his endocrine system I guess from all the extreme long dieting.

...but I on the other hand am really concerned about staying natty.....stubborn, maybe, stupid , perhaps but determined!!!

[Milone79]

Leg Workout "B"

Squats 3x10 (315 lbs) ...Leg press 2x12 (8 plates per side)

Romanian Deadlifts 3x10... seated leg curls 2x12

Standing Calf raises 3x10....seated calf raises 2 x12

Stretched then home...macros the same..still holding 188 for past few days...tonight Upper workout "B"

loving the less volume in this new program...intensity is just as high as ever!!!

[snrygo]

what program you runningnow?

[Milone79]

Its called "DULS" Dave's Upper Lower split.....just came across it online and was drawn to its simplicity

[psychodiver9]

Are those super sets? If so holy crap

[Milone79]

Nope..not supersets..rest 1-2 mnis between sets....except for squats I take about 3 mins.

[Milone79]

Upper body- workout "B"

B.W. Chins AMAP..15, 11, 12....Dumbbell rows 100s 1 x10, 10, 12..
Flat Bench 3x10 (225 lbs) ...incline dumbbell press 3x10 (75s) weak!!!!
Lying Triceps Extensions 3x10 (80 lbs)
Incline dumbbell curls 3x10 (40s) also felt heavy...da faq?? lol

In summary gotta get stronger..I used to throw these weights around last year with more ease...will get there again!!! I am determined!!! loving the two days 6-8 reps workout "A" and 10-12 workout "B"

carbs were up to almost 300g last night and morning B.W. was 186.4 lbs. :-)

Cardio today to blow off some "steam" and then a little re-ffed tomorrow maybe 500g CHO...

[Milone79]

Spoke to Paul yesterday and he suggested aiming for 700g of CHO for my Sunday re-feed...I chickened out at about 600g and honestly could not stuff anything else down my gullet if i wanted to...was snoring all night according to my G.F. (which I don't typically do) and had brutal heartburn this morning....took a few Nexium pills..192 lbs. morning B.W. dat dere bloat in the gut..legs/arms still vascular as fawwwkk but not liking the bloated/watery stomach....will be well energized for tonight's leg massacre no doubt!! :-)

[Milone79]

Squats..405x3...fuark...dropped down to 365 for another 3...then did 365x6, 375x6....hmmm not sure where my squat strength went but I would like it back now...

Leg press 9 plates per side x 12....threw another plate on each side and cranked out 12 more reps!! nice and deep..knees to chest!!

RDL 3 plates per side 2x6, third set I cranked out 8 reps!! felt good
Leg curls 2x12 (130lbs)

Standing Calf raises 3x8
Seated calf raises 3x12

Overall felt good just a bit confused as to how I was stronger on squats "pre-contest" than I am now...something is off there otherwise getting stronger everywhere else....

Hit about 280g of CHO last night morning B.W. 189.6 (down 4 lbs from the day before) :-)

[Milone79]

Beast Mode was Activated.....

Yates rows 315lbs x 6,6,6,8!!! Close grip lat-pull downs 200x10, 205x10, 205x12


typo last week as I did 250 for 3x6 not 275!!

Flat bench barbell press- 275x5.. felt heavy..dropped tp 265x2x5..then asked a kid for a spot and got 6 on my own for set #4...its amazing what a little piece of mind will do for you!!
Incline barbell press 185x10...195x10...200x9...argggg close..had to actually roll it on to my lap...then the floor...no spotter in sight..lol then I dropped to 185 for 5 more..then 135 for another 5 reps!!! Chest was screaming!!!!

Next was Triceps..Dips 3xASAP got about 15 for the first 2 then at least 20 on the last one...got totally into the zone!!!

Biceps-Preacher curls 2x10 -80 lbs straight bar..liking it better than the e-z bar for a change..

Finished off with pec deck/reverse pec deck flyes 1 set of 15 each..and one set of 15 triceps cable pressdowns then one set of alt. dumbbell curls (50 lbs) x 10...

stretched and home...amazing pump!! Slowly adjusting the food so I am eating a bit pre-wo..so far just a banana but have noticed a bit of difference...next week will start adding a few more cals/carbs pre-wo so not ALL of my food is eaten after...

[snrygo]

i agree with you on high rep work (re dips). it really depends on how in the zone you are. its the diff between 50 reps and 25 IME.

[Milone79]

A little pic taken when I got home...dat dere arm pump was crazy last night....



This morning I did 30 mins. of LISS at home on the stat. bike and a nice abs circuit...felt good...also thre in some foam rolling...tonight I have one hour of ART at physio...can't wait..then home to eat.. :-)

[The Solution]

Mirin the shoulders man! Lookin thick.

[Milone79]

Thanks Brother..shoulders were also pumped and this new routine has ZERO direct shoulder work...aside from the one set of reverse machine flyes I do at the end...with the flat bench and incline bench I am not really missing it either....

[Milone79]

Legs workout "B"

Squats 315x10, 315x10, 315x12.....still feeling a little weak under the bar and can't pinpoint where it is.....
Leg press 8n plates per side 3x12 deep!!!!

RDL 225 x12, 275x12, 275x12
Seated leg curls 3x12

Standing calf raises 3x10
Seated calf raises 3x15...squeezed hard on every rep!!!! awesome pump and felt great aside from the squats....

[ThailandBrah]

Looking a bit chubby in your new pics. Have you been eating lower carb higher fats again?

[Milone79]

^^NOT sure if srs......

morning B.W. 189 lbs after 300g of CHO last night....