Best Supplement Stack - 2014

[esfan_adam]

Hi All,

I am working on really getting into shape and have been taking a pre-workout drink with creatine, post-workout protein, and trying to eat healthier overall with pretty decent success thus far. At this point I am really looking to get bigger while getting leaner and I am looking to get into a more serious supplement stack. I have done a bunch of research and found two stack that look pretty good but I am hoping to get your opinions as to which is the best, should it be a hybrid of the two, and are there additional things I should be taking? Paste the two stacks isn't very pretty so I have also included the stacks in an excel file compared side to side. I also have two questions regarding the stacks which include protein shakes and pre-workout drinks which include things like BCAA's and caffeine/creatine respectively, is there a need for the BCAA's and caffeine/creatine as well. As an example I am taking Dymatize ISO 100 Protein and Cellucor C4 extreme which already contain certain levels of these supplements. Thanks for all of your advice and assistance!
Here are the two stacks:

Attachment 6891813

Muscle and Body

Get Up And Go (7 a.m.)
Arginine 5 g
BCAAs 5 g
Glutamine 5 g
Green tea/green tea extract 1-2 cups/500 mg standardized to 50% EGCG or more
First Solid Of The Day (7:15 a.m.)
Multivitamin/mineral 1 dose
Vitamin C 500–1000 mg
Vitamin E 400 IU
Fish oil 2–3 g
Mid-Morning Break (9:00 a.m.)
Acetyl-L-carnitine 1–1.5 g
Lunch Launch (12:00 p.m.)
Curcumin 100–200 mg
Glucosamine 1,500-2,000 mg
Chondroitin sulfate 1,200 mg
Mid-Afternoon Booster (2:30 p.m.)
Caffeine/coffee 200–400 mg/1–2 cups
And/or:
 Green tea/green tea extract 1–2 cups/500 mg standardized to 50% EGCG
Pre-Preworkout (3 p.m.)
Arginine 5 g
Glutamine 5 g
BCAAs 5 g
Fenugreek 500–1,000 mg
Acetyl-L-carnitine 1–1.5 g
Preworkout (3:30 p.m.)
Whey protein isolate 20 g
Fast-digesting carbs (sugar) 40 g
Creatine 5 g
Postworkout (5 p.m.)
Glutamine 5 g
BCAAs 5 g
Post- Postworkout (5:15 p.m.)
Whey protein 40–50 g
Fast-digesting carbs (sugar) 60–100 g
Creatine 3–5 g
Fenugreek 500–1,000 mg
Dinner, Dinner: Chicken-Winner (6 p.m.)
Multivitamin/mineral 1 dose
Vitamin C 500–1,000 mg
Fish oil 2–3 g
Curcumin 100–200 mg
Bedtime For Bonzo (10 p.m.)
ZMA 1 dose
The Last Supper (11 p.m.)
Casein protein (micellar casein) 20-40 g
Glutamine 5 g


#################################################

BodyBuilding.com

Wake Up
Immediately Upon Waking
Whey Protein 20 g
BCAAs 5 g
Caffeine 200 mg
Breakfast
30 To 60 Minutes After Waking
Multivitamin 1 dose
B complex 100  1 dose
Vitamin C 1000 mg
Vitamin D 1000-3000 IU
Vitamin E 400-800 IU
Calcium 500-600 mg
Fish Oil 2-3 g
Midmorning
60 To 90 Minutes After Breakfast
Green Tea Extract 500-1000 mg
Lunch
With Lunch
Fish Oil 2-3 g
Pre-Workout No. 1
60 Minutes Before Exercise
Caffeine 200-400 mg
Green Tea Extract 500-1000 mg
Pre-Workout/NO 1 dose
Pre-Workout No. 2
15 To 30 Minutes Before Exercise
Whey Protein 20 g
BCAAs 5 g
Creatine 2-5 g
Beta-Alanine 2-3 g
Post-Workout
Within 45 Minutes Of Exercise
Whey Protein 20 g
Casein Protein 10-20 g
BCAAs 5 g
Creatine 2-5 g
Beta-Alanine 2-3 g
Fast Carbs 30-60 g
Dinner
With Dinner
Vitamin C 1000 mg
Calcium 500-600 mg
Vitamin D 1000-3000 IU
Bedtime
30 Minutes Before Going To Bed
Casein Protein 20 g
Fish Oil 2-3 g

[Chunkx]

You should really cut down your supplements bro. Start from the beginning:

Fish oil
creatine
Whey protein

[johanlohman]

Mind blown.

[Gwyndane]

Obvious troll...

[DesertRain]

First... Strong join date.

Second... too much dude.

[Aweman]

Blooming heck... simplify.

1) Multi: Orange Triad - plenty of C (600mg), B complex, E as mixed tocopherols/tocotrienols, D3 (2000iu), Zinc (30mg) and has a good joint complex of glucosamine+chondroitin (2000mg), msm+bromelain+hyaluronic acid (1550mg). Unless you have a cold/flu you won't really need more C. If live in a sunny climate/get a lot of sun then you shouldn't need more D3 - if you do supp more check your d levels once or twice a year. You won't need ZMA (it won't boost your test to levels that aid your workouts, if it boosts them at all) and too much zinc could unbalance your zinc-copper ratio. Extra magnesium might be beneficial if you are deficient, check your diet. Don't supplement calcium unless you really need to - if you eat a lot of leafy greens/drink a lot of milk then you should have enough. Too much and you might unbalance your calcium-magnesium ratio. Or worse you might increase your chance for arterial calcification if you are not getting enough k2 along with the calcium (from animal foods/dairy). If you do supp calcium you should consider k2 as well. The joint complex should be enough unless you have really bad joints/inflammation. Curcumin is expensive and unnecessary if you don't.
2) Protein: Whey would be enough, though no harm in taking casein as well. Either should have enough BCAAs and glutamine. If you're cutting perhaps you would benefit from the BCAAs.
3) Fish Oil: The beneficial part is the EPA/DHA content - 2-3g is ideal. Look for how much is in your brand and adjust your intake accordingly. If you eat fish very high in omega 3s like salmon then you don't need to take fish oil that day.

Everything else
- Creatine: If you aren't already getting this it could prove beneficial. 5g is enough
- Pre-workout: Arginine is unnecessary and breaks down in your intestines. Citrulline is better to increase arginine levels. Citrulline + Beta Alanine would probably give you a good workout. If you already have a pre-workout supp I would just use that instead. Or not at all.
- Fenugreek: For increasing test presumably - doubt it would help much, and if it does, increase would be marginal and unlikely to affect your workouts
- Green Tea and Acetyl L Carnitine: For decreasing body fat? Doubt they'd help that much, but they won't hurt. Both may help you focus in your workouts though, they've been used as nootropics. You don't really need to take 3g of ALCAR, 1.5 would be enough.

[Impregnator]

strong first post.


keep it simple susan.

[esfan_adam]

Obvious troll...

Definitely not a troll, as someone else mentioned my join date happens to be 6 YEARS prior to yours. I found these two stacks from reputable sites and am just looking to ensure I am taking everything I can to help assist me get bigger and leaner most efficiently and quickly.

[esfan_adam]

You should really cut down your supplements bro. Start from the beginning:

Fish oil
creatine
Whey protein

I agree, I am not taking these all of these supplements yet, just recommendations I found online. What is the schedule and dosage you take? Currently I am just taking a preworkout with creatine and post workout protein.

[esfan_adam]

First... Strong join date.

Second... too much dude.

I also agree to much, could you please give me an example of what your supplement intake looks like with schedule?

[esfan_adam]

Blooming heck... simplify.

1) Multi: Orange Triad - plenty of C (600mg), B complex, E as mixed tocopherols/tocotrienols, D3 (2000iu), Zinc (30mg) and has a good joint complex of glucosamine+chondroitin (2000mg), msm+bromelain+hyaluronic acid (1550mg). Unless you have a cold/flu you won't really need more C. If live in a sunny climate/get a lot of sun then you shouldn't need more D3 - if you do supp more check your d levels once or twice a year. You won't need ZMA (it won't boost your test to levels that aid your workouts, if it boosts them at all) and too much zinc could unbalance your zinc-copper ratio. Extra magnesium might be beneficial if you are deficient, check your diet. Don't supplement calcium unless you really need to - if you eat a lot of leafy greens/drink a lot of milk then you should have enough. Too much and you might unbalance your calcium-magnesium ratio. Or worse you might increase your chance for arterial calcification if you are not getting enough k2 along with the calcium (from animal foods/dairy). If you do supp calcium you should consider k2 as well. The joint complex should be enough unless you have really bad joints/inflammation. Curcumin is expensive and unnecessary if you don't.
2) Protein: Whey would be enough, though no harm in taking casein as well. Either should have enough BCAAs and glutamine. If you're cutting perhaps you would benefit from the BCAAs.
3) Fish Oil: The beneficial part is the EPA/DHA content - 2-3g is ideal. Look for how much is in your brand and adjust your intake accordingly. If you eat fish very high in omega 3s like salmon then you don't need to take fish oil that day.

Everything else
- Creatine: If you aren't already getting this it could prove beneficial. 5g is enough
- Pre-workout: Arginine is unnecessary and breaks down in your intestines. Citrulline is better to increase arginine levels. Citrulline + Beta Alanine would probably give you a good workout. If you already have a pre-workout supp I would just use that instead. Or not at all.
- Fenugreek: For increasing test presumably - doubt it would help much, and if it does, increase would be marginal and unlikely to affect your workouts
- Green Tea and Acetyl L Carnitine: For decreasing body fat? Doubt they'd help that much, but they won't hurt. Both may help you focus in your workouts though, they've been used as nootropics. You don't really need to take 3g of ALCAR, 1.5 would be enough.

Thanks for all of the detailed info, I was not aware of much of this. I agree it needs to be simplified, could you please give me an example of what your supplement intake looks like with schedule?

[esfan_adam]

strong first post.


keep it simple susan.

I agree with you also, simply is much better and easier to stick with, could you please give me an example of what your supplement intake looks like with schedule? Thanks

[Khwaj]

he just went full retard
never go full retard

but on a serious note
i would seriously cut down, you dont need that much

creatine, whey protein powder, preworkout is all i usually take
fish oils when i can remember

[DasBiceps]

Hi All,

I am working on really getting into shape and have been taking a pre-workout drink with creatine, post-workout protein, and trying to eat healthier overall with pretty decent success thus far. At this point I am really looking to get bigger while getting leaner and I am looking to get into a more serious supplement stack. I have done a bunch of research and found two stack that look pretty good but I am hoping to get your opinions as to which is the best, should it be a hybrid of the two, and are there additional things I should be taking? Paste the two stacks isn't very pretty so I have also included the stacks in an excel file compared side to side. I also have two questions regarding the stacks which include protein shakes and pre-workout drinks which include things like BCAA's and caffeine/creatine respectively, is there a need for the BCAA's and caffeine/creatine as well. As an example I am taking Dymatize ISO 100 Protein and Cellucor C4 extreme which already contain certain levels of these supplements. Thanks for all of your advice and assistance!
Here are the two stacks:

Attachment 6891813

Muscle and Body

Get Up And Go (7 a.m.)
Arginine 5 g
BCAAs 5 g
Glutamine 5 g
Green tea/green tea extract 1-2 cups/500 mg standardized to 50% EGCG or more
First Solid Of The Day (7:15 a.m.)
Multivitamin/mineral 1 dose
Vitamin C 500–1000 mg
Vitamin E 400 IU
Fish oil 2–3 g
Mid-Morning Break (9:00 a.m.)
Acetyl-L-carnitine 1–1.5 g
Lunch Launch (12:00 p.m.)
Curcumin 100–200 mg
Glucosamine 1,500-2,000 mg
Chondroitin sulfate 1,200 mg
Mid-Afternoon Booster (2:30 p.m.)
Caffeine/coffee 200–400 mg/1–2 cups
And/or:
 Green tea/green tea extract 1–2 cups/500 mg standardized to 50% EGCG
Pre-Preworkout (3 p.m.)
Arginine 5 g
Glutamine 5 g
BCAAs 5 g
Fenugreek 500–1,000 mg
Acetyl-L-carnitine 1–1.5 g
Preworkout (3:30 p.m.)
Whey protein isolate 20 g
Fast-digesting carbs (sugar) 40 g
Creatine 5 g
Postworkout (5 p.m.)
Glutamine 5 g
BCAAs 5 g
Post- Postworkout (5:15 p.m.)
Whey protein 40–50 g
Fast-digesting carbs (sugar) 60–100 g
Creatine 3–5 g
Fenugreek 500–1,000 mg
Dinner, Dinner: Chicken-Winner (6 p.m.)
Multivitamin/mineral 1 dose
Vitamin C 500–1,000 mg
Fish oil 2–3 g
Curcumin 100–200 mg
Bedtime For Bonzo (10 p.m.)
ZMA 1 dose
The Last Supper (11 p.m.)
Casein protein (micellar casein) 20-40 g
Glutamine 5 g


#################################################

BodyBuilding.com

Wake Up
Immediately Upon Waking
Whey Protein 20 g
BCAAs 5 g
Caffeine 200 mg
Breakfast
30 To 60 Minutes After Waking
Multivitamin 1 dose
B complex 100  1 dose
Vitamin C 1000 mg
Vitamin D 1000-3000 IU
Vitamin E 400-800 IU
Calcium 500-600 mg
Fish Oil 2-3 g
Midmorning
60 To 90 Minutes After Breakfast
Green Tea Extract 500-1000 mg
Lunch
With Lunch
Fish Oil 2-3 g
Pre-Workout No. 1
60 Minutes Before Exercise
Caffeine 200-400 mg
Green Tea Extract 500-1000 mg
Pre-Workout/NO 1 dose
Pre-Workout No. 2
15 To 30 Minutes Before Exercise
Whey Protein 20 g
BCAAs 5 g
Creatine 2-5 g
Beta-Alanine 2-3 g
Post-Workout
Within 45 Minutes Of Exercise
Whey Protein 20 g
Casein Protein 10-20 g
BCAAs 5 g
Creatine 2-5 g
Beta-Alanine 2-3 g
Fast Carbs 30-60 g
Dinner
With Dinner
Vitamin C 1000 mg
Calcium 500-600 mg
Vitamin D 1000-3000 IU
Bedtime
30 Minutes Before Going To Bed
Casein Protein 20 g
Fish Oil 2-3 g

Do you even have any money left for food or do you plan on living on supplements.


You are obviously trolling. No one in their right mind would spend so much money on all of those.

[alexman2323]

You don't really need preworkout unless if you can't motivate yourself to lift a bar.

[Misctake7]

Definitely not a troll, as someone else mentioned my join date happens to be 6 YEARS prior to yours. I found these two stacks from reputable sites and am just looking to ensure I am taking everything I can to help assist me get bigger and leaner most efficiently and quickly.

Yea......wouldn't recommend either of those supplement plans to anybody.

[esfan_adam]

he just went full retard
never go full retard

but on a serious note
i would seriously cut down, you dont need that much

creatine, whey protein powder, preworkout is all i usually take
fish oils when i can remember

You don't worry about a casein at night? Do you take a whey immediately in the morning?

[esfan_adam]

Yea......wouldn't recommend either of those supplement plans to anybody.

If you don't recommend either of those, can you give me an example of what your supplement intake looks like with schedule? Thanks

[esfan_adam]

You don't really need preworkout unless if you can't motivate yourself to lift a bar.

I disagree, a preworkout includes more than just caffeine, creatine for example.

[esfan_adam]

Do you even have any money left for food or do you plan on living on supplements.


You are obviously trolling. No one in their right mind would spend so much money on all of those.

Not trolling at all, but there sure are a ton of people who like to run their mouth instead of offering assistance! I am not worried about the money spent in reason as long as I am getting good lean gains as efficiently as possible without taking steroids.

[Rob1882]

You don't need casein at night some bro science

Multi+joint support / Orange Triad
Fish oil / Oximega
Creatine / Green Magnitude or Mono

Your goals seem confusing - Get bigger while getting leaner?

[esfan_adam]

You don't need casein at night some bro science

Multi+joint support / Orange Triad
Fish oil / Oximega
Creatine / Green Magnitude or Mono

Your goals seem confusing - Get bigger while getting leaner?

Thanks for the recommendation. Casein tastes terrible so that would be great to not have to worry about it at night. What schedule do you take them at?

[Rob1882]

Thanks for the recommendation. Casein tastes terrible so that would be great to not have to worry about it at night. What schedule do you take them at?

Not all casein is terrible

SAN casein fusion - Milk Chocolate Delight is awesome!

The Orange Triad I take 3/3 with breakfast and dinner lot of people take them 2/2/2 with each meal

Oximega I take 2/2 breakfast/dinner

Green Magnitude I take pre workout or on off days whenever

Some great protein's if you need to supplement more protein in

SAN Titanium Whey/Casein Fusion/Raw Fusion
Controlled Lab's - Pronom
Xtreme Formulations - Ultra Peptide
Bio X - Power Whey Complex
BPI - Whey-HD
PES - Select
BSN - Syntha-6
Twinlab's - 100% Whey Fuel

[esfan_adam]

You don't need casein at night some bro science

Multi+joint support / Orange Triad
Fish oil / Oximega
Creatine / Green Magnitude or Mono

Your goals seem confusing - Get bigger while getting leaner?

Didn't address your other question, I realize most people are either bulking or cutting but I figured since I was overweight I should be able to eat healthier, smaller, more frequent meals allowing me to lean out my fat while putting on muscle. Is this not really possible, does it have to be bulk or cut?

[esfan_adam]

Not all casein is terrible

SAN casein fusion - Milk Chocolate Delight is awesome!

The Orange Triad I take 3/3 with breakfast and dinner lot of people take them 2/2/2 with each meal

Oximega I take 2/2 breakfast/dinner

Green Magnitude I take pre workout or on off days whenever

Some great protein's if you need to supplement more protein in

SAN Titanium Whey/Casein Fusion/Raw Fusion
Controlled Lab's - Pronom
Xtreme Formulations - Ultra Peptide
Bio X - Power Whey Complex
BPI - Whey-HD
PES - Select
BSN - Syntha-6
Twinlab's - 100% Whey Fuel

Excellent response, thank you for the help! When do you take your protein, and does the 1.5-2 grams per body pound still hold true? Sorry for the rookie question but does the 3/3 or 2/2/2 just signify how many pills you take at a time, as in 3 twice a day or 2 three times a day?

[Rob1882]

Didn't address your other question, I realize most people are either bulking or cutting but I figured since I was overweight I should be able to eat healthier, smaller, more frequent meals allowing me to lean out my fat while putting on muscle. Is this not really possible, does it have to be bulk or cut?

I would focus on one or the other, at best you maybe able to keep from losing to much lean mass. Prob best to just focus on gradually leaning up while lifting heavy to preserve what you have.

I don't think meal timing is important at all at least doesn't seem to be to me, but tracking your calories and macro's is going to give you the best results using something like myfitnesspal + info from nutrition section here.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=156380183
^ Calculating Calories and Macros

Excellent response, thank you for the help! When do you take your protein, and does the 1.5-2 grams per body pound still hold true? Sorry for the rookie question but does the 3/3 or 2/2/2 just signify how many pills you take at a time, as in 3 twice a day or 2 three times a day?

3/3 is the pill amount split 3 at a time since 1 serving of Orange Triad is 6 caps and Oximega is 4 per day split 2/2

I get in atm around 200-250g protein per day and try for 65-70g fat, 1.5-2g protein per lb seems little overkill guess depends what that adds up to for you and how you can manage your macros within your TDEE with a reduction for weight loss.

Right now at 125 lb loss since April 2013 following pretty much what I listed above with tracking calories/macros

[esfan_adam]

I would focus on one or the other, at best you maybe able to keep from losing to much lean mass. Prob best to just focus on gradually leaning up while lifting heavy to preserve what you have.

I don't think meal timing is important at all at least doesn't seem to be to me, but tracking your calories and macro's is going to give you the best results using something like myfitnesspal + info from nutrition section here.

^ Calculating Calories and Macros



3/3 is the pill amount split 3 at a time since 1 serving of Orange Triad is 6 caps and Oximega is 4 per day split 2/2

I get in atm around 200-250g protein per day and try for 65-70g fat, 1.5-2g protein per lb seems little overkill guess depends what that adds up to for you and how you can manage your macros within your TDEE with a reduction for weight loss.

Right now at 125 lb loss since April 2013 following pretty much what I listed above with tracking calories/macros

Thanks again for your help, amazing weight loss in just over a year. Not familiar with Macros but will take a look at the link you posted. When do you take your protein shakes?

[Rob1882]

Thanks again for your help, amazing weight loss in just over a year. Not familiar with Macros but will take a look at the link you posted. When do you take your protein shakes?

Drink them whenever, doesn't make any difference - I even cook with the protein for breakfast such as Grits/Oats+protein or strained yogurt+protein.

Should try many of them in heated/warmed almond milk brings out more flavors.

[misfit28]

That is a ridiculous amount of supps.......

[esfan_adam]

That is the consensus. One of the stacks is from bodybuildingdotcom. What stack would you recommend with an accompanying schedule?