Protein Absorption Rate - How Much Intake Per Sitting?

[steyrsp]

I am curious how much protein I should intake per sitting to not waste any or have it turn to fat; I found this article on livestrong that says:

"it takes a whey protein shake about one hour and 30 minutes for the body to digest. The rate of whey protein digestion is about 10 g per hour, meaning your body will absorb about 15 grams of whey protein during the time it is digested." http://www.livestrong.com/article/48...n-one-sitting/

Right now my Whey shakes have like 60 grams protein with the milk; if this article is correct I mine as well just drink 2 glasses of milk and not even drink Whey! ???

[cazca]

I am curious how much protein I should intake per sitting to not waste any or have it turn to fat; I found this article on livestrong that says:

"it takes a whey protein shake about one hour and 30 minutes for the body to digest. The rate of whey protein digestion is about 10 g per hour, meaning your body will absorb about 15 grams of whey protein during the time it is digested." http://www.livestrong.com/article/48...n-one-sitting/

Right now my Whey shakes have like 60 grams protein with the milk; if this article is correct I mine as well just drink 2 glasses of milk and not even drink Whey! ???

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

Based on the available evidence, it’s false to assume that the body can only use a certain amount of protein per meal. Studies examining short-term effects have provided hints towards what might be an optimal protein dose for maximizing anabolism, but trials drawn out over longer periods haven’t supported this idea. So, is there a limit to how much protein per meal can be effectively used? Yes there is, but this limit is likely similar to the amount that’s maximally effective in an entire day. What’s the most protein that the body can effectively use in an entire day? The short answer is, a lot more than 20-30 g. The long answer is, it depends on several factors. In most cases it’s not too far from a gram per pound in drug-free trainees, given that adequate total calories are provided [8,9].

In terms of application, I’ve consistently observed the effectiveness of having approximately a quarter of your target bodyweight in both the pre- and post-exercise meal. Note: target bodyweight is a surrogate index of lean mass, and I use that to avoid making skewed calculations in cases where individuals are markedly over- or underweight. This dose surpasses the amounts seen to cause a maximal anabolic response but doesn’t impinge upon the rest of the day’s protein allotment, which can be distributed as desired. On days off from training, combine or split up your total protein allotment according to your personal preference and digestive tolerance. I realize that freedom and flexibility are uncommon terms in physique culture, but maybe it’s time for a paradigm shift.

In sum, view all information – especially gym folklore and short-term research – with caution. Don’t buy into the myth that protein won’t get used efficiently unless it’s dosed sparingly throughout the day. Hopefully, future research will definitively answer how different dosing schemes with various protein types affect relevant endpoints such as size and strength. In the mean time, feel free to eat the whole steak and drink the whole shake, and if you want to get the best bang for your buck, go for a quality protein blend such as Nitrean!

[jonstoppable]

It wont turn into fat. Whey is the one exception when it comes to protein, in that it absorbs hella fast. Anything in excess usually gets pee'd off. In terms of the typical meal, you don't have to worry about over doing it, since complete proteins found in nature take a pretty long time to digest. Not to mention gastric emptying doesn't all happen at once, so that slows down the process even more.

In terms of macronutrients, protein is the least of your worries when it comes to putting on extra body fat.

[steyrsp]

Good replies, from what I have read eating meat or such is a different story as it will take hours to absorb - but still only 10 grams per hour. So my real question is about whey, if its 10 grams per hour, and its absorbed in 1.5 hours - that means that having more than a half scoop of whey in one sitting is a waste.

This is from another livestrong article;

"Digestion
Whey protein begins the digestion process in your stomach and continues through the small intestine. The entire digestion process is fast. According to Helen Kollias, Ph.D., an expert in muscle development, whey protein navigates your gastrointestinal tract within a matter of 1.5 hours. However, the digestion process can take longer if you consume whey protein with milk or casein. These other proteins cause the whey to coagulate, which allows it to stay in your stomach longer. This is an effective strategy for a more gradual release of amino acids into your body.

Absorption Rate
Since the digestion process of whey is fast compared to other proteins like casein or meat proteins, it's important for your body to absorb the amino acids fast as well. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, and whey contains all of the essential amino acids your body needs, making it a complete protein. Whey is absorbed at a rate of about 8 g to 10 g per hour, according to Kollias. This is a much higher rate compared to casein protein, which may absorb at a rate of less than 5 g per hour.
Amount

Based on the research of Dr. Kollias, 15 g of whey protein per serving is the ideal amount to consume. It maximizes the amount of the whey your body can digest and absorb in a 1.5 hour period. However, this doesn't factor in protein used by the body for energy or proteins simply not absorbed by your body. So, 20 g to 25 g of whey protein following each workout may be optimal. This is according to the University of Illinois McKinley Health Center, which also states that athletes in training may benefit from up to 50 g of whey protein per day. Consult your doctor to determine how much whey is right for you."

Im thinking I need to cut my whey intake way down and look into casein or something based on this. Ive been taking two scoops ON Whey twice daily, thats 60 grams a shake, sounds like I should cut that in half.

[steyrsp]

It wont turn into fat. Whey is the one exception when it comes to protein, in that it absorbs hella fast.

Yes but the doctors I have read say pure whey navigates your intestines in 1.5 hours - and the absorption rate is 10g per hour. That would suggest 15g whey per sitting; however, I am guessing some is "wasted" in the process and perhaps you should take a little more than that to actually deliver 15g to your body. No sure.

[psychodiver9]

That is simply wrong

[ThousandEyes]

Yes but the doctors I have read say pure whey navigates your intestines in 1.5 hours - and the absorption rate is 10g per hour. That would suggest 15g whey per sitting; however, I am guessing some is "wasted" in the process and perhaps you should take a little more than that to actually deliver 15g to your body. No sure.

If that were true there'd be a lot of skinny ass IFer's around here

[steyrsp]

That is simply wrong

The last post of mine about whey intake quoted a PhD who is an expert in muscular development http://www.precisionnutrition.com/about/helen-kollias

Why do you think she is wrong and what are your credentials?

[ThousandEyes]

The last post of mine about whey intake quoted a PhD who is an expert in muscular development http://www.precisionnutrition.com/about/helen-kollias

Why do you think she is wrong and what are your credentials?

If you look at the rest of the website they also try and sell you a meal plan...of course she's going to say that so you have to buy into the meal plan to "progress".

[steyrsp]

If you look at the rest of the website they also try and sell you a meal plan...of course she's going to say that so you have to buy into the meal plan to "progress".

An Ad Hominem attack is not an argument. If you can show me a quote from another PhD on the level of a John Hopkins researcher (which she is) then I would love to see it.

[ThousandEyes]

An Ad Hominem attack is not an argument. If you can show me a quote from another PhD on the level of a John Hopkins researcher (which she is) then I would love to see it.

You were already given one that you failed to acknowledge earlier in the thread.

[jonstoppable]

Whey has it's usefulness in terms of convenience, but in all honesty, it's a bit overrated; mostly due to supplement company propaganda. There have been a few research studies suggesting that protein blends (ie milk), with slow and fast digesting proteins provide greater amounts of muscle protein synthesis post-workout.

So for example I mix my whey with milk if I'm having trouble hitting my macros, hopefully ensuring that none of my money ends up wasted in the toilet.

[steyrsp]

She actually has an even more interesting article where her conclusion is:

"Drinking 25 grams of fast-digesting whey protein, all at once and immediately after exercise, increases muscle protein synthesis more than drinking 25 grams of whey protein over 3 hours after exercise." http://www.precisionnutrition.com/whey-vs-casein

The 25 grams is the 15 max + 10 that your body will use for energy I think or something, so its still based on that 15 max. The most interesting part is that she is saying protein synthesis is best after a workout at least for whey - so that takes on the whole argument that protein timing is irrelevant.

[steyrsp]

You were already given one that you failed to acknowledge earlier in the thread.

Not sure what argument your talking about. Most looked like opinions and hearsay to me.

[steyrsp]

Whey has it's usefulness in terms of convenience, but in all honesty, it's a bit overrated; mostly due to supplement company propaganda. There have been a few research studies suggesting that protein blends (ie milk), with slow and fast digesting proteins provide greater amounts of muscle protein synthesis post-workout.

So for example I mix my whey with milk if I'm having trouble hitting my macros, hopefully ensuring that none of my money ends up wasted in the toilet.

Right, that is what I have read too is that adding milk or peanut butter will slightly help slow the whey absorption. It looks to me that 25g whey is the magic number, so I think I'll go from 2 scoops to 1 scoop + milk which is 30g in one scoop and the milk should slow those other 5g's. I do believe whey has its place for hard gainers like myself, but based on what I'm reading I definitely need to break up my 2 shakes to 4 shakes or so...

[psychodiver9]

She actually has an even more interesting article where her conclusion is:

"Drinking 25 grams of fast-digesting whey protein, all at once and immediately after exercise, increases muscle protein synthesis more than drinking 25 grams of whey protein over 3 hours after exercise." http://www.precisionnutrition.com/whey-vs-casein

The 25 grams is the 15 max + 10 that your body will use for energy I think or something, so its still based on that 15 max. The most interesting part is that she is saying protein synthesis is best after a workout at least for whey - so that takes on the whole argument that protein timing is irrelevant.

So sh contradicts herself. Brilliant. Please explain how 15 is the "max" if your body uses the other 10 for energy? I know this is hard to believe but some people tailed their research findings so the funding source is happy with the results

[Safin]

I am curious how much protein I should intake per sitting to not waste any or have it turn to fat; I found this article on livestrong that says:

"it takes a whey protein shake about one hour and 30 minutes for the body to digest. The rate of whey protein digestion is about 10 g per hour, meaning your body will absorb about 15 grams of whey protein during the time it is digested." http://www.livestrong.com/article/48...n-one-sitting/


Right now my Whey shakes have like 60 grams protein with the milk; if this article is correct I mine as well just drink 2 glasses of milk and not even drink Whey! ???

watch this, seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxgC...ure=plpp_video

[steyrsp]

So sh contradicts herself. Brilliant. Please explain how 15 is the "max" if your body uses the other 10 for energy? I know this is hard to believe but some people tailed their research findings so the funding source is happy with the results

No contradiction.

"Based on the research of Dr. Kollias, 15 g of whey protein per serving is the ideal amount to consume. It maximizes the amount of the whey your body can digest and absorb in a 1.5 hour period. However, this doesn't factor in protein used by the body for energy or proteins simply not absorbed by your body".

[steyrsp]

watch this, seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxgC...ure=plpp_video

Why?

[Flat4Suby]

watch this, seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxgC...ure=plpp_video

eeeehhh, he makes some good points but i wouldn't follow everything he says (ex. feeding your body with protein 6 times a day).

edit: I wouldn't follow most of what he says. I stopped listening and came to this conclusion when he started talking about "negative" calories and fiber. -_-

[steyrsp]

Here is another non-related study claiming 15g Whey per sitting, for anyone doubting the John Hopkins PhD's work;

"However, due to possible inhibition of endogenous digestive enzymes from over-processing and rapid small intestine transit time, the average amount of liquid WPC that is absorbed may be only 15 g."

http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/10

[steyrsp]

What's really interesting is that my ON Gold Whey's "serving size" is 1 scoop with 24g - almost exactly what these researchers recommend for one sitting; I doubt thats a coincidence.

I also saw ON has Platinum Hydrowhey containing digestive enzymes which the entire purpose is to increase whey protein absorption due to this low/quick absorption problem; and the serving size for the Platinum is 30g - 6g more than Gold which is apparently what they feel their digestive enzymes will help digest above the standard amount., and the above study I posted is about that very scenario.

[steyrsp]

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

The author quotes studies but then jumps to his own conclusions and opinions that aren't necessarily supported by the studies; in fact he disagreed with many of the scientific studies he posted such as the Symons study - and his argument? His opinion vs a scientific study. That said, I am agnostic on his view and have no problem believing athletes like hershal walker only eat 1 meal a day.

The thing to remember is they are talking about whole foods with slow absorption rates - liquid whey is a different story, scientists know it completes its journey through the GI tract in 1.5 hours, so its pretty easy to calculate protein absorption from that, as Whey is near the peak of any food at close to 10g per hour. Even if your body wanted to adapt to a 1 meal a day scenario I don't think it could slow the passage of liquid through the GI tract too much *my opinion*.

[cazca]

The author quotes studies but then jumps to his own conclusions and opinions that aren't necessarily supported by the studies; in fact he disagreed with many of the scientific studies he posted such as the Symons study - and his argument? His opinion vs a scientific study. That said, I am agnostic on his view and have no problem believing athletes like hershal walker only eat 1 meal a day.

The thing to remember is they are talking about whole foods with slow absorption rates - liquid whey is a different story, scientists know it completes its journey through the GI tract in 1.5 hours, so its pretty easy to calculate protein absorption from that, as Whey is near the peak of any food at close to 10g per hour. Even if your body wanted to adapt to a 1 meal a day scenario I don't think it could slow the passage of liquid through the GI tract too much *my opinion*.

He is objectively analyzing the studies themselves by suggesting limitations and the pros and cons of the short term and long term studies. You can't just take study A's conclusion as the end all fact.

[WonderPug]

This topic comes up very often and people are often under wild misconceptions. To dispel some, I suggest reviewing the following:

A lot of people take for granted what the human body is capable. One can consume more than 30 g of protein in one sitting because of the intestinal braking system, the most significant of which is the ileal brake:



So the ileal brake controls the rate of how much food enters the small intestine so that absorption is maximized and food doesn't go to waste. In other words, it will slow down digestion essentially so that the small intestine can take its sweet time and absorb nutrients without being rushed into absorbing everything all at once. One study, showed maximum absorption rates to be as high as 10 g/hour for protein (for pure whey), although only a few proteins were measured. When you factor in a mixed diet and other sources of protein, you can expect lower rates of absorption such that it seems that a lot of protein may indeed go to waste. However, that study does not take into account the fact that the gastrointestinal system can adapt to diet, meaning that amino acid absorption can improve when the GI tract exposed to higher protein loads. To sum it all up, your intestines take care of the possible issues and make it all work in the end.

If protein was not actually broken down, then it would not even be absorbed by the intestine. If large peptides did make it into systemic circulation, your immune system would react to it and you could possibly get a food allergy from that (and this can happen with a diseased gut). A healthy small intestine makes sure that only broken down protein (amino acids, dipeptides, and tripeptides) get absorbed. Any protein that is not broken down (certain proteins and chains that are not bioavailable, that is) is not absorbed either goes to the large intestine where bacteria will use it for its own consumption or gets pooped out. It will not be turned into fat for storage because it does not enter systemic circulation in the first place.

Hope that helps. My fingers are tired.

[steyrsp]

He is objectively analyzing the studies themselves by suggesting limitations and the pros and cons of the short term and long term studies. You can't just take study A's conclusion as the end all fact.

Thats fine, but you quoted the authors personal "conclusion" like it had some sort of merit - so lets be clear, that was his OPINION, as he disagreed with most of the actual science...

[steyrsp]

However, that study does not take into account the fact that the gastrointestinal system can adapt to diet, meaning that amino acid absorption can improve when the GI tract exposed to higher protein loads.

Thanks for posting, but if the above were actually true beyond 10g hour, then a scientific study should be able to show a difference between 1g protein intake and 2g - unfortunately there has never been a study showing that, so I think there is definitely a limit to that absorption and the science says 10g with pure isolated whey. Although I would caveat that a naturally huge person like a benedikt magnusson will have a better amino acid profile than an average person and could utilize more protein - but thats genetics not adaptation.

[cazca]

OP, just combine flaxseed, fiber, bcaa, unicorn tears and infant back hairs to up your protein absorption rate.

Then refer to the 80/20 rule in this link. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=122509811