Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[dkvill23]

Sounds like a lot of people are getting injured on this routine.

DOMS from leg day is really something to consider. Lol. @.@ Might go a lil easier on it next time.

[seanfl02]

The DOMs will be gone after the first week just keep pushing. I am currently on my 5th week and going strong making gains in all areas and lifts. I am loving this program.

[dkvill23]

gym was closed today. Feelsbadman

[shorkey]

The DOMs will be gone after the first week just keep pushing. I am currently on my 5th week and going strong making gains in all areas and lifts. I am loving this program.

Truer words were never spoken! I had a hard time walking in the parking lot on my way to my second leg day due to extreme DOMS (especially calves)....Pushed through the workout and guess what? No more DOMS! Its a shock at first but you get used to it.

Injuries occur when cheating/using bad form. Since its very high volume Ive been really careful to use good form on all reps. Actually had a shoulder injury before starting this program and it now seems to be gone!

[donce2013]

You can still build a great workout with that equipment.

Forget about leg extensions, you can either perform more front squats or you could pick another quad dominant exercise (walking lunges, Bulgarian split squats, high bar back squats etc). You can perform improvised glute-ham raises instead of leg curls, all you need is somewhere to hook your feet under (power rack safety bar set down low to the ground etc) and something soft to rest your knees on.

Thanks for the reply

My power rack bars dont go that far down but Ive just thought on ive got an old pullupbar what goes on the door frame some where so I could possibly stick that on the bottom of the door frame,not sure though if I have the parts what actually bolt into the door though.

Any way im starting this workout today.I will start up a pic journal later on as well.

Going to be using it for trying to lose about 8-10lbs(hoping the fats gone by march) then If I like it and I dont feel too tired while on the program I will continue using it to build muscle up until june which should be 14 weeks I think,I hope to build solid 7lbs of muscle by then.

The DOMs will be gone after the first week just keep pushing. I am currently on my 5th week and going strong making gains in all areas and lifts. I am loving this program.

Yeh mine nrmaly goes away by at least the second week of a new program,well now and then I get a slight soreness but nothing to moan about.

Do any of you guys ever get your doms like 2 days after training,I hardly ever get it the next day normally 2-3 days afterwards

[donce2013]

Heres my first workout,it was easy (besides the dips) because Im starting of light mainly because im not used to these exercises (only done serious training with SS and the texas method,so I've hardly done any iso exercises )

chest dips
10.5,5,5,5,4,4,5,5,2

Incline bench press 1 notch up (about 30 degree angle)

1x10 40kg
45kg
10,10,10,10,10

increase weight

overhead dumbbell extensions (single arm)
9kg
right 20,14,14,10-58
left 20,14,15,10-59
increase weight

kick backs single arm 6.5kh (will be getting swapped to skull crushers once my ez bar comes through the post)
right 20,20,10
left 20,20,10-

dumbbell side lateral single arm 6.5kg

10,15,15,15-55
10,15,15,15-55

increase weight

Coupple of other questions
why no deadlifts and ohp
Will my deadlft and ohp strengh go down a lot after ive finished with this program (about 5months time)

[Kelei]

Coupple of other questions
why no deadlifts and ohp
Will my deadlft and ohp strengh go down a lot after ive finished with this program (about 5months time)

Romanian deadlifts target the hamstrings better than conventional deadlifts, I couldn't care less about my conventional deadlift strength, it's irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. This routine is designed to promote maximal hypertrophy, it's not designed to develop maximal 1RM strength. Bodybuilding is very simple, incorporate a large variety of exercises and aim to increase your 10RM strength, that's really all there is to it. How you go about incresing your 10RM strength will determine whether a routine is a good routine or a bad routine.

Overhead pressing is highly overrated and redundant if you're already performing plenty of other pressing (bench press, incline bench press, dips etc), also most people already train their front delts too much and their rear delts not enough, adding overhead presses only makes things worse.

I doubt your conventional deadlift and OHP strength will decrease, unless of course you're already highly advanced (in which case you'd lose strength). For most people increasing your RDL and bench press strength should also increase your conventional deadlift and OHP strength due to carryover. If bodybuilding is your goal you needn't be concerned with your conventional deadlift or OHP strength.

[loukiss]

a short question..

why preacher curls over regular barbell curls (with full stretch)? barbell curl is a more basic exercise for biceps compared to preacher curls..at least thats what i know.. or have you noticed something else?

i d like a second exercise for biceps... would hammer curls (before preacher curls) be a good one?

[davo26]

a short question..

why preacher curls over regular barbell curls (with full stretch)? barbell curl is a more basic exercise for biceps compared to preacher curls..at least thats what i know.. or have you noticed something else?

i d like a second exercise for biceps... would hammer curls (before preacher curls) be a good one?

i believe preachers are preferred as the isolate the bicep better and stop 'swinging'. leaning against a wall has also been suggested by some to stop this.

as for a second exercise for biceps? they get hit well in the chins, slightly in the pullups, and i find them worked quite well in the supported rows, so really, with the preachers theres about 4 exercises in this routine that work them.
personally, i do incline curls instead of preachers, and if you do these kelei recommends hammer grip going up, regular going down.

[yeashescool]

I'm really liking this routine. This will be my 2nd week, and possibly it's all in my head but I feel amazing doing this. I've honestly never felt so big, and strong like I do now. To early to really conclude anything, but I will continue pushing this routine to its limits.

[landus123]

Weighted push-ups or chest press machine.

I can't do push-ups due to pain in my wrists- I'm fine with grips or on DBs but have no way in my gym to add weight to my back easily.

I'll start with the chest press machine but what do you feel would be best to follow up on to make sure I'm still getting a good chest workout?

Chest press machine
Incline flyes
Flat flyes?

Also with lateral raises (and rear delt flyes) I'm really not feeling any sort of anything. My muscle just tires- I never feel a burn or pump unless I do drop sets. I only find this with shoulders- is it normal?

[Kelei]

I can't do push-ups due to pain in my wrists- I'm fine with grips or on DBs but have no way in my gym to add weight to my back easily.

I'll start with the chest press machine but what do you feel would be best to follow up on to make sure I'm still getting a good chest workout?

Chest press machine
Incline flyes
Flat flyes?

Also with lateral raises (and rear delt flyes) I'm really not feeling any sort of anything. My muscle just tires- I never feel a burn or pump unless I do drop sets. I only find this with shoulders- is it normal?

Chest press, dumbbell flyes, cable crossovers/fles. Don't worry about the pump during side laterals and rear delt flyes, just make sure you take your sets to failure.

[Oyster210]

That pretty much sums it up.

That's what Broz was referring to when he said how you feel is a lie. You simply can't listen to your body because it's lying to you. I've set PR's on days I didn't even want to train, and struggled with my usual weights on days when I felt I could bend the bar with my bare hands. I'll never know which kind of workout it's going to be until I start doing it.

This is so true.

I've felt really crap and tired all day, and considered skipping tonight's workout. But then I thought I'd just man up and do it - something's better than nothing right.

Anyway - hit personal bests on EVERY lift. Madness.

[Joshyb90]

Chest press, dumbbell flyes, cable crossovers/fles. Don't worry about the pump during side laterals and rear delt flyes, just make sure you take your sets to failure.

I thought we had to go 1 rep shy of failure? Please correct me if I'm wrong (no sarcasm meant)

[Kelei]

I thought we had to go 1 rep shy of failure? Please correct me if I'm wrong (no sarcasm meant)

My definition of failure is when you can't complete another full rep. For example if you can perform 10 full reps but you'd fail to complete 11 reps then performing 10 reps would be considered training to failure.

[syncmaster913n]

so after reading Landus' experiences with the overreach and doing some of my own thinking (thanks Landus btw for your updates and listing all your concerns, they helped me out a lot), I've decided to sort of ease myself into the full body overreach, rather than jump right into it from day to day. I started an overreach for my chest around a week ago, today I also started overreaching on my back and biceps, and in a week from now I'll be adding in legs and tric. so basically I'll be on a full body overreach by the end of January.

I'm taking advantage of the fact that I can work from home, so rather than set aside xx hours each day to train, I'm doing something like this (just an example):

- bench press
- go work for 10-15 minutes
- incline bench
- go work for a bit
- triceps
- go do something else
- side delts
- another 10-15 minutes of work
- chin ups

and so on and so forth. this way I find I can squeeze in a ton of exercises during the day and do all the volume required for the day, without really getting that "completely drained" feeling that would follow a 2-3 hour session of constant lifting and is easier to control psychologically, if that makes sense.

feels good overall and I've already bumped the volume on some of the exercises from the 30 reps I've been doing, to 40 or 45 in some cases. I've bumped carbs too of course.

my overall plan is really simple: if my performance on the first set of an exercise doesn't start to decline after a week of overreaching, I add more volume to that exercise. Basically my goal is to see a minimum of 30% reduction in strength after the 3 full weeks of overreaching - if at any point I feel i'm not gonna get there, I'm increasing volume. does this sound ok Kelei?

[tazmanpa]

I don't feel like the deloads do much for me so being inspired by Syncmaster, Landus and AD I am going to try and do all three days work in one day this up coming weekend both days since the gym I go to is slower during the weekend. I am going to try D1 and D2 in the morning and D3 in the afternoon and see if I can do it two days in a row then my deload starts after that. I will report back how things go and I plan on posting my progress so far once I hit each day twice after my deload to see how things are progressing.

[Kelei]

so after reading Landus' experiences with the overreach and doing some of my own thinking (thanks Landus btw for your updates and listing all your concerns, they helped me out a lot), I've decided to sort of ease myself into the full body overreach, rather than jump right into it from day to day. I started an overreach for my chest around a week ago, today I also started overreaching on my back and biceps, and in a week from now I'll be adding in legs and tric. so basically I'll be on a full body overreach by the end of January.

I'm taking advantage of the fact that I can work from home, so rather than set aside xx hours each day to train, I'm doing something like this (just an example):

- bench press
- go work for 10-15 minutes
- incline bench
- go work for a bit
- triceps
- go do something else
- side delts
- another 10-15 minutes of work
- chin ups

and so on and so forth. this way I find I can squeeze in a ton of exercises during the day and do all the volume required for the day, without really getting that "completely drained" feeling that would follow a 2-3 hour session of constant lifting and is easier to control psychologically, if that makes sense.

feels good overall and I've already bumped the volume on some of the exercises from the 30 reps I've been doing, to 40 or 45 in some cases. I've bumped carbs too of course.

my overall plan is really simple: if my performance on the first set of an exercise doesn't start to decline after a week of overreaching, I add more volume to that exercise. Basically my goal is to see a minimum of 30% reduction in strength after the 3 full weeks of overreaching - if at any point I feel i'm not gonna get there, I'm increasing volume. does this sound ok Kelei?

A 30% reduction in strength is too drastic, 20% is more than enough. Besides, you don't need to go overboard, you can still make great gains with an overreach/deload cycle even if you don't actually lose strength during the overreaching phase.

[syncmaster913n]

A 30% reduction in strength is too drastic, 20% is more than enough. Besides, you don't need to go overboard, you can still make great gains with an overreach/deload cycle even if you don't actually lose strength during the overreaching phase.

alright, got it

[Softvxice]

Do I do abs with this workout?

[davo26]

Do I do abs with this workout?

up to you. i didnt, now i do. just bought an ab roller and the idea is to work them every other day, but theyre not part of the routine specifically.

[Joshyb90]

Kelei, how do you think your routine compares to a simple upper lower split. I've done a weeks worth of your routine now and I really like it. I've just come off 3 months of fullbody training. I'm pretty much going for as much size as I can, would I benefit from this workout or should I goto upper lower?

[donce2013]

Another nice workout today.

I have a couple of other questions though

1.I am going to give this workout to a friend who is still sort of a noob but once to get seriouse about training.His only goal is to get bigger and I think this workout would suite him perfect.

One slight problem though is that he works in a hospital,He works permanently on the weekends and then gtes to pick what LONG shifts he wants to do monday to fri.Some times he has to do like 12-4 hour shifts with only 30min break all day so he sometimes can get the gym.

What would be the best set up for him to do ?

I was thinking of just give him it 3days a week .


2.Im just curious if there are similar programs like this what use's a heavier weight and mainly the big 4 exercises(bench,back sqat,deadlift,ohp) so instead of going for a 10 rep max you do a load of heavy singles and doubles until you reach your rep quota.

I put hard work into but flew through it,still only lifting light though making sure I can really feel the exercises working.


TUESDAY 22 JANUARY
pull-ups
10,10,10,4,4,3,4,3,2

Chin-ups
10,5,4,4,4,3,4,5,3,2,5,1



ROWS
1X5 40KG
50KG
15,10,10,10,5
INCREASE WEIGHT


rear delt raise single arm -going to start doing these lying face down on the bench
6.5kg
right 15,15,20
left 15,15,15,5

INCREASE WEIGHT

drag curls-switching to ez curls once I get my bar
20kg-barbell
10,10,6,6,5,3,5,5

then 10-15 min skipping 15-20 min shadow boxing

[davo26]

Another nice workout today.

I have a couple of other questions though

1.I am going to give this workout to a friend who is still sort of a noob but once to get seriouse about training.His only goal is to get bigger and I think this workout would suite him perfect.

One slight problem though is that he works in a hospital,He works permanently on the weekends and then gtes to pick what LONG shifts he wants to do monday to fri.Some times he has to do like 12-4 hour shifts with only 30min break all day so he sometimes can get the gym.

What would be the best set up for him to do ?

I was thinking of just give him it 3days a week .


2.Im just curious if there are similar programs like this what use's a heavier weight and mainly the big 4 exercises(bench,back sqat,deadlift,ohp) so instead of going for a 10 rep max you do a load of heavy singles and doubles until you reach your rep quota.

I put hard work into but flew through it,still only lifting light though making sure I can really feel the exercises working.

1. theres no magic involved in this routine, its just a good workout for 'bodybuilding' rather than strength, and has more volume to it than others. with this in mind he may not have time to do it as recommended, but it can still be done to the same time schedule as any gym workout really, it just wont give the same results as being on it nearly every day.

2. as i mentioned, this is primarily for bodybuilding, rather than strength, so 10 rep range rather than 1s and 2s. so it seems youre maybe asking if theres similar programmes that use different rep ranges and different exercises?? er.... so not similar then? :-)

im sure you could use this programme however you want. halve the volume, use lower rep ranges, if you lift heavy weights and eat right, youll have decent results however you do it id say, but its best to pick a routine tailored to your goals. this is a good balanced routine for bodybuilding rather than pure strength if you see what i mean.

[ProgressIsGood]

Hey Kelei I have a question. As I said I'm doing to pull ups everyday, rest pause, I already did 800 reps so far in total and have 250 more reps to go (so it'll be 3 weeks). I regressed in about a rep or two so far. I was wondering whether doing pullups each day could have effected my pressing? Because, I noticed my strength is a bit down as well on the pressing.

[adamxbomb]

1. theres no magic involved in this routine, its just a good workout for 'bodybuilding' rather than strength, and has more volume to it than others. with this in mind he may not have time to do it as recommended, but it can still be done to the same time schedule as any gym workout really, it just wont give the same results as being on it nearly every day.

2. as i mentioned, this is primarily for bodybuilding, rather than strength, so 10 rep range rather than 1s and 2s. so it seems youre maybe asking if theres similar programmes that use different rep ranges and different exercises?? er.... so not similar then? :-)

im sure you could use this programme however you want. halve the volume, use lower rep ranges, if you lift heavy weights and eat right, youll have decent results however you do it id say, but its best to pick a routine tailored to your goals. this is a good balanced routine for bodybuilding rather than pure strength if you see what i mean.

Correct, Bodybuilding= making your body symmetrical, basicly so you dont look like "that guy" at the gym with 20" arms and 10" legs, but gains are expected, as kelei says, as long as your putting more weight on the bar overtime, you will see results and gains. Its an excelent routien so far!


This is an example of the 3 Day split: (Kelei Quoted)
When performing the split once per week (D1 on Mon, D2 on Wed, D3 on Fri) you can get away with using more reps than normal, perhaps you could use 70 reps if you're only going to be performing the split once per week instead of the usual 50 reps when performing the split twice per week.

PS: Actually working on creating an E-book in my spare time, consisted of Kelei (quotes) regarding everything in this thread, for those to lazy to scroll through.

[anonymous]

Truer words were never spoken! I had a hard time walking in the parking lot on my way to my second leg day due to extreme DOMS (especially calves)....Pushed through the workout and guess what? No more DOMS! Its a shock at first but you get used to it.

Injuries occur when cheating/using bad form. Since its very high volume Ive been really careful to use good form on all reps. Actually had a shoulder injury before starting this program and it now seems to be gone!

I questioned this as well before I started, but it's so true, you just work through it and it fades away.

[syncmaster913n]

question came to mind

A 30% reduction in strength is too drastic, 20% is more than enough. Besides, you don't need to go overboard, you can still make great gains with an overreach/deload cycle even if you don't actually lose strength during the overreaching phase.

what if the reduction in strength exceeds 20% say after 2 weeks, should I deload earlier for that muscle group? so if after 2 weeks of daily benching I can get 7 reps instead of 10 on the first set, should I immediately deload bench or still keep pushing for 3 full weeks, even if it means a much bigger strength reduction than 20% will happen?

[ProgressIsGood]

question came to mind



what if the reduction in strength exceeds 20% say after 2 weeks, should I deload earlier for that muscle group? so if after 2 weeks of daily benching I can get 7 reps instead of 10 on the first set, should I immediately deload bench or still keep pushing for 3 full weeks, even if it means a much bigger strength reduction than 20% will happen?

I was wondering this as well. I seem to have a very slow recovery in my pressing exercises and I won't be surprised if I'll regress as well by much more than 20%.

[syncmaster913n]

I was wondering this as well. I seem to have a very slow recovery in my pressing exercises and I won't be surprised if I'll regress as well by much more than 20%.

this is what my bench looked like over the first 5 days of the overreach (first set):


1. flat 10 reps, incline 10 reps
2. flat 11, incline 11
3. flat 10, incline 10
4. flat 11, incline 10
5. flat 11, incline 14 (I took a much longer rest here between flat and incline, like maybe 2 hours, so that's why so many reps on it this time)

regardless of how much rest one takes between exercises (be it 5 minutes or 5 hours), it seems important to keep it consistent from day to day so as not to mess things up.