Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[mase31683]

Okay, so I tweaked it a bit to fit my needs...

My biggest concern was that I am not repeating the the original three days exactly, even though I'm hitting the same muscles.

What are your needs? If we know that, we can better answer your question. Without additional words I would recommend following the program as designed. It was built with specific thought and consideration given to building a body that grows proportionally.

I agree with your second statement. Performing the same exercises twice per week allows for more rapid gains not only by training your body and mind to perform the movement, but in number of opportunities to add reps or weight. If you get 12 reps on close grip bench press then do you go and increase the weight for your overhead db presses (the next time your routine hits tris)? Its hard to say because its a different exercise taking place after a different set of exercises that happens to target the same muscle that did get stronger.

So let us know what it is you're looking to achieve, and give some thought to trying the original planned workout too.

[64509chvl]

^
Agreed...that is basically a whole diferent program! Should not be tweaked that much...those 2 guys explained why.

[lrd3]

SO I COMPLETED MY DELOAD JUST IN TIME TO GET SICK AS PHUCCCK
i woke up yesterday to a blazing head ache and stuffed up as all hell but i figured i cold push through
i came back on leg day= i went right to heavier weight on the rdl +10 lbs and still nailed m 10....added 2 reps to my FS and 1 rep to my BS - (im doing both to 40 rep)... by the time i was done with them i ws smoked n barely got through the rest of my lifts at reg weight.
i also couldn't eat for crap the last few days. just no appetite at all.. barely forcing down what i can...
so today i i get set up on bench and rep 8 kills me- rep 9 came down to the spotters i was completely demotivated....
same same on IB 8 reps and out of gas.....
i just pushed everything today to 30 and 35 reps. and that was hard to get (alot of 1 and 2 rep sets even with almost 30 second rest times)
im guessing im going to push on tomorrow. but man if i had the energy to be pissed i would be right now...............

[64509chvl]

Take it easy for a couple days dude! It sucks, but it's alot better than gettin all pissed off & demotivated which is worse than missin a couple days IMO! If I have a minor cold I usually push through without much if an issue but anything more I suck it up & rest a couple days & up my vitamin C intake. I use my appetite for rule of thumb...if its chitty enough that I can't eat...I don't need to be lifting!

[jtrip007]

Take it easy for a couple days dude! It sucks, but it's alot better than gettin all pissed off & demotivated which is worse than missin a couple days IMO! If I have a minor cold I usually push through without much if an issue but anything more I suck it up & rest a couple days & up my vitamin C intake. I use my appetite for rule of thumb...if its chitty enough that I can't eat...I don't need to be lifting!

I agree man. I know your ready to go after the deload, but if you are that miserable; take a few days off. You will prolong your sickness if you try to workout.

[rottenpickle]

SO I COMPLETED MY DELOAD JUST IN TIME TO GET SICK AS PHUCCCK
i woke up yesterday to a blazing head ache and stuffed up as all hell but i figured i cold push through
i came back on leg day= i went right to heavier weight on the rdl +10 lbs and still nailed m 10....added 2 reps to my FS and 1 rep to my BS - (im doing both to 40 rep)... by the time i was done with them i ws smoked n barely got through the rest of my lifts at reg weight.
i also couldn't eat for crap the last few days. just no appetite at all.. barely forcing down what i can...
so today i i get set up on bench and rep 8 kills me- rep 9 came down to the spotters i was completely demotivated....
same same on IB 8 reps and out of gas.....
i just pushed everything today to 30 and 35 reps. and that was hard to get (alot of 1 and 2 rep sets even with almost 30 second rest times)
im guessing im going to push on tomorrow. but man if i had the energy to be pissed i would be right now...............

Its normal to feel weak after a deload but your strength will come back in no time.
Your insane for doing both front and back squats.

[rottenpickle]

I added mine today.

All right thanks for joining in. Reps!

[lrd3]

Take it easy for a couple days dude! It sucks, but it's alot better than gettin all pissed off & demotivated which is worse than missin a couple days IMO! If I have a minor cold I usually push through without much if an issue but anything more I suck it up & rest a couple days & up my vitamin C intake. I use my appetite for rule of thumb...if its chitty enough that I can't eat...I don't need to be lifting!

I agree man. I know your ready to go after the deload, but if you are that miserable; take a few days off. You will prolong your sickness if you try to workout.

but but but tomorrow is chins and curls... my arms are going to disappear if they get any smaller
im just going to play it by ear..... if i feel anything like i do today = im taking my first day off

[lrd3]

Its normal to feel weak after a deload but your strength will come back in no time.
Your insane for doing both front and back squats.

i actually hated the back squat when i first started lifting... i forced myself to love them.... now i'm stuck .. lol

[goulakam]

Good deal...stick with it, lower back aching will calm down soon enough! It had me worried when I started SLDL's on All Pro's! He explained it all to me & he was dead on!

Thanks for that, I will sure be sticking with it, I meant to say SL DL and not conventional squat

IMO try to learn how to front squat with the straps. I tried using the cross arm grip and as the weight got heavier it started to slip of my arms more often thatn before. I decreased the weight by 10 pounds to improve my form with the straps and I have to say that I do feel more confident executing the move. Best of luck

I have noticed this too, when I get tired in the 5th or 6th rep I can see the bar rolling forward a bit and making it dangerous/difficult. I think I will invest in some straps as I don't have them.

Also not sure what to do with the bruise? on the tip of the shoulder where the bar sits, I mean it is nothing serious but not sure if it will eventually go away.

[dsoto18]

i've been doing this routine for a month by now and i have noticed an increase on my strength something that i really like lol, but at the same time no physical changes at all, and i was wondering if any of you guys that's been doing this routine for a while have on their hands before and after pictures while doing this routine and what are the differences they've noticed.. that would be an awesome motivation for me since i'm lacking of it.

will rep!
thanks!

[jedema]

All right thanks for joining in. Reps!

should I add the ones from the past month that are in my log? That's another 300 since the beginning of April

[jedema]

i've been doing this routine for a month by now and i have noticed an increase on my strength something that i really like lol, but at the same time no physical changes at all, and i was wondering if any of you guys that's been doing this routine for a while have on their hands before and after pictures while doing this routine and what are the differences they've noticed.. that would be an awesome motivation for me since i'm lacking of it.

will rep!
thanks!

Visible progress depends on several factors.
1. Nutrition. If your not meeting your macros, your not going to see as much progress.
2. Physiology. Some people just don't change much on the outside. Sure they are making progress with the weights, but just not in pictures. I am not this way. I've been doing this for a month now as well and can see the size increases in the mirror
3. Where you are at as a bodybuilder. A more advanced bodybuilder is going to take a very ling time to see any changes while a noob is going to see changes lifting a double cheese burger....

I can tell you that I have a more defined chest, slightly more defined back, and my bi's and tri's are starting to pop. This program works. Don't get discouraged. As Kelei has stated before, it takes 5 years of consistent lifting to develop the body that you want.

[sepandee]

im guessing im going to push on tomorrow. but man if i had the energy to be pissed i would be right now...............

Don't worry. You'll come across a lot of more serious things in life that you can get pissed at. You just missed some reps in this case. No biggy. Rest, eat, get back at it. Done.

[sepandee]

3 things before I start this program on Monday:

1. I'm scared. Kidding. But I've never done so much volume before.

2. Has anyone done the D1+D2/D3/Rest/D1+D2/D3/Rest/Rest method? Curious to know how lt feels, and how long D1+D2 take.

3. My squat numbers are nothing amazing. 285lb x 5 on the back squat, 225 x 5 on the front squat. That being said, my legs and ass are already big enough. I rip a pair of jeans every two months. No kidding. So, can I lower the reps on leg day to 30? I mean, I know I can, but should I?

[jedema]

3 things before I start this program on Monday:

1. I'm scared. Kidding. But I've never done so much volume before.

what you will find is that after you get past the first set or two, the rest actually get easier becasue your body adjusts

3. My squat numbers are nothing amazing. 285lb x 5 on the back squat, 225 x 5 on the front squat. That being said, my legs and ass are already big enough. I rip a pair of jeans every two months. No kidding. So, can I lower the reps on leg day to 30? I mean, I know I can, but should I?

I don't see why not. the only thing that would slip back is your progress, and thats what your looking for anyway. So long as your happy with the way your legs are shaped. You still will be lifting so it isn't like you will be just droping legs.

[wgbjeff]

3 things before I start this program on Monday:

1. I'm scared. Kidding. But I've never done so much volume before.

2. Has anyone done the D1+D2/D3/Rest/D1+D2/D3/Rest/Rest method? Curious to know how lt feels, and how long D1+D2 take.

3. My squat numbers are nothing amazing. 285lb x 5 on the back squat, 225 x 5 on the front squat. That being said, my legs and ass are already big enough. I rip a pair of jeans every two months. No kidding. So, can I lower the reps on leg day to 30? I mean, I know I can, but should I?

This was from a month back, I hope it helps

Kelei maybe you can help with this- After SS, my ass and thighs are HUGE, and disproportional with the rest of my body. I've asked how to reduce before, and ppl just tell me to work the other areas more. I don't want this, I actually just wanna reduce. So far, I've been just doing nothing on D3, except for calf raises and cardio (cycling HIIT). Anything else I should be doing/consider?

Start training your legs, your upper body will catch up, underdeveloped muscles grow faster than well developed muscles.

[rottenpickle]

should I add the ones from the past month that are in my log? That's another 300 since the beginning of April

All pull-ups and chin-ups from 2013.

[mase31683]

i've been doing this routine for a month by now and i have noticed an increase on my strength something that i really like lol, but at the same time no physical changes at all, and i was wondering if any of you guys that's been doing this routine for a while have on their hands before and after pictures while doing this routine and what are the differences they've noticed.. that would be an awesome motivation for me since i'm lacking of it.

will rep!
thanks!

Kelei suggests not trying to look for before and after type effects until at least three months. Because exactly as you describe, people will get discouraged and feel like whatever program they're on isn't working for them. Just stay consistent and patient.

Additionally, make sure you're getting proper diet. Makes all the difference in the world. Quick WAG is 1g protein/lb, 2g carbs/lb, the rest of your cals/9 = g's of fat

[rottenpickle]

3 things before I start this program on Monday:

1. I'm scared. Kidding. But I've never done so much volume before.

2. Has anyone done the D1+D2/D3/Rest/D1+D2/D3/Rest/Rest method? Curious to know how lt feels, and how long D1+D2 take.

3. My squat numbers are nothing amazing. 285lb x 5 on the back squat, 225 x 5 on the front squat. That being said, my legs and ass are already big enough. I rip a pair of jeans every two months. No kidding. So, can I lower the reps on leg day to 30? I mean, I know I can, but should I?

2. I did the 4 day set up for a week, wasnt all that bad to be honest. Takes me about 1 hr 15 min for D1 (40 reps) took me about 1 hr 45 min for D1+D2 (30reps).

[adamxbomb]

I apppoligize I havent been on in a while, but I ruptured my eardrum last week and still recovering, happy lifting

[davo26]

question i considered asking on my log, as its personal to me, but then figured it might be useful for others too, so asking it here...........

its about the whole cut/recomp/bulk thing. kelei looked at my pics and recommended going down to 158lbs, then clean slow bulk. i got as far as 161, then as some of you know, had a week away and put some back on, so its a case of trying again. i was just looking at the first few pages of my log earlier, and saw jooceman i think it was, recommending a recomp rather than a cut.
so....just wondering on peoples thoughts on this. i trust keleis judgement, hes always been spot on with me, so ill still try and get to 158, which im guessing will give me around 10% body fat. but.....say i just cant reach it due to being unable to cut cals that much (im on around 1800 atm and struggling). am i right in assuming if i just stay at 1800 and not moving any more weight, thats my new maintenance, and if i stayed there indefinitely id slowly recomp from around 14% bf say, and eventually get to 10%? same result, just slower than cut/bulk?
im impatient to start growing again tho, its p*ssing me off people telling me i look scrawny and gaunt, and thinking i got body dysmorphia or something and cant see how skinny i look. just want to get this slow bulk going!! will my quickest route be to cut to 158, then start my 'reverse dieting'?

interested in everyones thoughts on this, and what sort of body fat % people would generally consider fine for recomp rather than cut.

[jedema]

question i considered asking on my log, as its personal to me, but then figured it might be useful for others too, so asking it here...........

its about the whole cut/recomp/bulk thing. kelei looked at my pics and recommended going down to 158lbs, then clean slow bulk. i got as far as 161, then as some of you know, had a week away and put some back on, so its a case of trying again. i was just looking at the first few pages of my log earlier, and saw jooceman i think it was, recommending a recomp rather than a cut.
so....just wondering on peoples thoughts on this. i trust keleis judgement, hes always been spot on with me, so ill still try and get to 158, which im guessing will give me around 10% body fat. but.....say i just cant reach it due to being unable to cut cals that much (im on around 1800 atm and struggling). am i right in assuming if i just stay at 1800 and not moving any more weight, thats my new maintenance, and if i stayed there indefinitely id slowly recomp from around 14% bf say, and eventually get to 10%? same result, just slower than cut/bulk?
im impatient to start growing again tho, its p*ssing me off people telling me i look scrawny and gaunt, and thinking i got body dysmorphia or something and cant see how skinny i look. just want to get this slow bulk going!! will my quickest route be to cut to 158, then start my 'reverse dieting'?

interested in everyones thoughts on this, and what sort of body fat % people would generally consider fine for recomp rather than cut.

The fastest way would be to continue to cut. Recomping takes a long time. To recomp eat enough cals to keep your weight stable. If that's 1800 cals, then stay there. Since that's where you have been cutting at, I would slowly increase your cals and find where you need to be to hold your weight stable. Looking at your pics, I tend to think that the decision to cut or recomp is totally up to you. You don't have any extra pouch of weight around your belly or anything like that.

The nice thing about recomp is that you start to really add strength. Personally from where your at right now, I'd just recomp. Maybe lose the extra from your vacation first.....

[jedema]

I apppoligize I havent been on in a while, but I ruptured my eardrum last week and still recovering, happy lifting

Yikes! I wondered where you took off too... Started thinking that you and AD ran off into the sunset...

You've had a string of bad luck recently itch your body recently it seems. Hopefully it is the last of it.

[mase31683]

ruptured my eardrum last week

What happened bro?

[squall325]

After a week of rest from my old routine, I'm gonna try this program this Monday for my 4 week cut. Been stuck at 165 lbs for a couple of weeks now. Gonna try to break through it with this prog, strict diet, and my first time using lipo6x. Crossing fingers for good results.

btw, is it okay to replace front squats with back squats? I'm not flexible enough to rest the bar on my shoulders and puts lots of tension on my elbows. Also I can't lift as much with front squats than back squats due to elbow stress/pain.

also planning to switch RDL with regular deadlifts. Any ideas?

[64509chvl]

After a week of rest from my old routine, I'm gonna try this program this Monday for my 4 week cut. Been stuck at 165 lbs for a couple of weeks now. Gonna try to break through it with this prog, strict diet, and my first time using lipo6x. Crossing fingers for good results.

btw, is it okay to replace front squats with back squats? I'm not flexible enough to rest the bar on my shoulders and puts lots of tension on my elbows. Also I can't lift as much with front squats than back squats due to elbow stress/pain.

also planning to switch RDL with regular deadlifts. Any ideas?

U can sub front squats with back squats or leg press, but fronts hit the quads the best if u take the time to get used to them...most can't front as much as back! Don't sub reg deads in place of RDL's! Program works best as is...if there is anything u want to tweak, it should primarily be an exercise that is causing pain on joints & such...not just for the sake of changing it!

[mase31683]

I'm gonna try this program this Monday for my 4 week cut.

btw, is it okay to replace front squats with back squats? I'm not flexible enough to rest the bar on my shoulders and puts lots of tension on my elbows. Also I can't lift as much with front squats than back squats due to elbow stress/pain.

also planning to switch RDL with regular deadlifts. Any ideas?

If you're going to be on a cut, it's recommended to go for 30 total reps per exercise.

As for switching out exercises, if you really want to stay away from front squats, go with hack squats. The purpose of this exercise is to really target your quads, which is why back squats aren't being used.

Similarly, the Romanian deadlifts are intended to really focus on hitting your hamstrings. Regular deadlifts are going to target many additional muscle fibers. While this may sound good, this program is really designed to evenly distribute the work load across the intended muscle groups, so switching this exercise has the possibility of creating an imbalance.

Kelei has offered up Hyperextensions (or reverse hypers) as a good alternative to Romanian deadlifts in the past, and if you don't have a hack squat, Kelei has also said Leg Press can be substituted for Front Squats, though he feels they are not as effective.

[sepandee]

This was from a month back, I hope it helps

Thanks. I never really intended on dropping leg day.

So it's settled. I'll do D1+D2/D3/Rest/D1+D2/D3/Rest/Rest. On D1 and D2, I'm going to do 50 reps for bench press, chinups, and seated rows. In the interest of saving time, the rest will be 35-40 reps.

On D3 (leg day), I'll either continue doing strength training (3 sets of 3-5 reps) or just do 30 reps.

I excite.

[rottenpickle]

question i considered asking on my log, as its personal to me, but then figured it might be useful for others too, so asking it here...........

its about the whole cut/recomp/bulk thing. kelei looked at my pics and recommended going down to 158lbs, then clean slow bulk. i got as far as 161, then as some of you know, had a week away and put some back on, so its a case of trying again. i was just looking at the first few pages of my log earlier, and saw jooceman i think it was, recommending a recomp rather than a cut.
so....just wondering on peoples thoughts on this. i trust keleis judgement, hes always been spot on with me, so ill still try and get to 158, which im guessing will give me around 10% body fat. but.....say i just cant reach it due to being unable to cut cals that much (im on around 1800 atm and struggling). am i right in assuming if i just stay at 1800 and not moving any more weight, thats my new maintenance, and if i stayed there indefinitely id slowly recomp from around 14% bf say, and eventually get to 10%? same result, just slower than cut/bulk?
im impatient to start growing again tho, its p*ssing me off people telling me i look scrawny and gaunt, and thinking i got body dysmorphia or something and cant see how skinny i look. just want to get this slow bulk going!! will my quickest route be to cut to 158, then start my 'reverse dieting'?

interested in everyones thoughts on this, and what sort of body fat % people would generally consider fine for recomp rather than cut.

The fastest way would be to continue to cut. Recomping takes a long time. To recomp eat enough cals to keep your weight stable. If that's 1800 cals, then stay there. Since that's where you have been cutting at, I would slowly increase your cals and find where you need to be to hold your weight stable. Looking at your pics, I tend to think that the decision to cut or recomp is totally up to you. You don't have any extra pouch of weight around your belly or anything like that.

The nice thing about recomp is that you start to really add strength. Personally from where your at right now, I'd just recomp. Maybe lose the extra from your vacation first.....

I strongly agree with jedema on the whole recomping thing. I tried a "mini-cut" if you will for 2 weeks and my energy to workout was just gone. Even at 30 reps I saw no progress, and I got weaker in some lifts mainly the pull day (D2). With recomp I saw no decrease in energy and my strength kept increasing..so yeah.