Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[Kelei]

By standing you mean, my back will lean on a wall and stand straight and then make my elbows lean on the wall as well while i do bicep curls?

Also, for hyperextensions, do I just sort of carry a dumbbell while doing the exercise? What is my ROM?

Another thing, why do you suggest lowering the bar to the upper abs area when doing bench press? I tried doing that but it doesnt feel well and it feels like the bar might just fall on my chest and the exercise is much harder. So what I do is just lower the bar to my mid chest area.

Standing, with your elbow resting against the front/side of your body, I rest mine against the front of my hip bone.

You'll need to use a narrower grip when lowering the bar to your upper abs.

Any suggestions for troubleshooting knee pain during squats? I have a sharp knee pain that comes randomly (some sessions I will be fine while others I get it and I have to wait until next time). I'm usually fine going in but the minute I start loading up the bar, the pain will come in whenever I squat. When that occurs, even bw squats will have a stinging pain on that knee.

Have you tried altering your form? If you can't gt the pain to go away you'll need to switch to another exercise.

[klift808]

Standing, with your elbow resting against the front/side of your body, I rest mine against the front of my hip bone.

You'll need to use a narrower grip when lowering the bar to your upper abs.

Have you tried altering your form? If you can't gt the pain to go away you'll need to switch to another exercise.

Sorry kelei but I cant imagine you doing that, do you mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ep6ddH2dSg execept I use dumbbells and do alternating curls until I hit 30 reps per bicep?

And what do you mean by forming an arc when you do bench presses? You mean it is wrong to perform just a straight line up-down when you do bench press?

[lrd3]

I don't arch my back and I don't drive with my legs. The bar will travel in an arc, in the bottom position it should touch your upper abs and in the top position it should be over your chest area.

dam.... i will have to try it like this now.....on flat bench i always arch my lower back retract my scapula touch the bar to my lower pecs and drive up....
i do not set up that way on my inclined ones now. i sit with my back completely against the bench. and no scapula retraction....
great some thing els i get to re-learn... ha ha ha

[wwazza]

Any suggestions for troubleshooting knee pain during squats? I have a sharp knee pain that comes randomly (some sessions I will be fine while others I get it and I have to wait until next time). I'm usually fine going in but the minute I start loading up the bar, the pain will come in whenever I squat. When that occurs, even bw squats will have a stinging pain on that knee.

Do you hear any crackling or clicking in your knees when you squat. If the patella isn't tracking right ie going straight up and down when you bend your knees. It can cause inflammation around the tendons. You need to make sure your kneecap is directly in line above your toes when you squat. This is obviously hard when you've got a fully loaded bar but try it with lighter weights to make sure. A change of stance can help and I've found feet shoulder width apart facing forward is best for me. I also seen a physio who has taped my kneecaps into a better position to allow them to get used to a better way of moving.

Well it seems to be working and hopefully when the tape is off I can continue to squat pain free.

[wgbjeff]

Any suggestions for troubleshooting knee pain during squats? I have a sharp knee pain that comes randomly (some sessions I will be fine while others I get it and I have to wait until next time). I'm usually fine going in but the minute I start loading up the bar, the pain will come in whenever I squat. When that occurs, even bw squats will have a stinging pain on that knee.

Fix up your form. Make sure your knees are travelling in the direction your toes are pointed. Take some time to figure this out because knee injuries can be a b*tch, I speak from experience.

Sorry kelei but I cant imagine you doing that, do you mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ep6ddH2dSg execept I use dumbbells and do alternating curls until I hit 30 reps per bicep?

And what do you mean by forming an arc when you do bench presses? You mean it is wrong to perform just a straight line up-down when you do bench press?

Yes, use dumbbells and do it one arm at a time. For example, do 10 with your right, then 10 with your left, then 3 with your right, then 3 with your left (13 total), etc. Keep your elbow pressed against your body so the only thing that should be moving is your forearm, up and down.

[Kelei]

Sorry kelei but I cant imagine you doing that, do you mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ep6ddH2dSg execept I use dumbbells and do alternating curls until I hit 30 reps per bicep?

And what do you mean by forming an arc when you do bench presses? You mean it is wrong to perform just a straight line up-down when you do bench press?

Like that but pin your elbows to your body so they can't move. I prefer dumbbells but a barbell can work too.

[wwazza]

Like that but pin your elbows to your body so they can't move. I prefer dumbbells but a barbell can work too.

How critical is this really? By time you get to bicep curls your arms have had a shockingly good workout already. Whether you do standing, sitting, alternating, rope, barbell, dumbell, preacher, spider, hammer, concentration or something completely different. As long as you hit 10 reps and 3 rep to fifty and oblitering them biceps and feeling that pump it's all good.

[Kelei]

How critical is this really? By time you get to bicep curls your arms have had a shockingly good workout already. Whether you do standing, sitting, alternating, rope, barbell, dumbell, preacher, spider, hammer, concentration or something completely different. As long as you hit 10 reps and 3 rep to fifty and oblitering them biceps and feeling that pump it's all good.

It's not that big of a deal, it just stops you cheating by using your front delts, if your elbows travel forward (even slightly) during bicep curls you're using your front delts to cheat.

This isn't always necessarily a bad thing, some people like to emphasize the eccentric/negative portion of their reps, if you cheat the weight up it'll allow you to use more weight during the negative. This is a valid technique and can work well. However, there's no point cheating the weight up if you're only going to let it fall back down, you need to lower it slowly and under control in order to take advantage of this technique.

[roberto487]

5 more days to go on my chest overreach. So far, I increased my weight by 5 pounds on both, before reaching the 12 reps. Somehow, my chest gives up at 10 reps, so I said what the heck, let me add more weight and see. I also threatened my body, if it didn't give the strength, I was doing to let the bar drop on it, lol. I hope jumping the gun on the 12 reps is not detrimental. So far, my left wrist and forearm are achy and I think is because of bad form. Sometimes, I catch myself having the left hand placed wider than my right hand on the bar.

[64509chvl]

dam.... i will have to try it like this now.....on flat bench i always arch my lower back retract my scapula touch the bar to my lower pecs and drive up....
i do not set up that way on my inclined ones now. i sit with my back completely against the bench. and no scapula retraction....
great some thing els i get to re-learn... ha ha ha

I adjusted to Kelei's technique aswell...in result when I started this I had to drop my flat bench weight down to 155 (from 170)...which is now 185 with good form so I'm glad I took the time to do it.

[Jweik84]

Currently bulking to 230 from 200. Would this routine be alright to do while bulking? I've been doing it for 2 weeks now and I just realized that I switched routines without even thinking about compound movements. I love the intensity of it.

[sunshine825]

Kelei, would you recognize this workout for a woman? I typically lift 4x a week and do cardio 2x a week, but just finished my 12 week program and am looking for something new to overcome this plateau.

[litljay]

Kelei, would you recognize this workout for a woman? I typically lift 4x a week and do cardio 2x a week, but just finished my 12 week program and am looking for something new to overcome this plateau.

Look back a couple pages for a poster AD1984. She's the only female that I'm aware of that is doing this routine. She also has a log that you could browse through.

[jedema]

Kelei, would you recognize this workout for a woman? I typically lift 4x a week and do cardio 2x a week, but just finished my 12 week program and am looking for something new to overcome this plateau.

Here is her log
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=149241653

[sunshine825]

Thank you!

[mydealbox]

Couple questions:

1) I was curious if there were any significant updates to the routine since it was initially posted...going through 165 pages would be quite the task. I am starting this Monday and just want to ensure I am working from the latest.
2) I only get 4 days to workout per week, and only about an hour each time, but I work from home and have some basic equipment in my office. I was going to do everything from day 1 and 2 that require the gym during the hour I have: Bench press, incline bench press, rope pressdowns, chest supported rows, and preacher curls. Then, when I got a break later in the day at home I would complete the exercises from day 1 and 2. I have dumbells and a pull-up bar in my home office, so I was going to do the overhead dumbbell extensions (single arm), dumbbell side laterals, chin-ups, pull-ups, and rear delt flys there. Hope that makes sense. Would that work, or is it a bad idea to mix up the exercises that way? I just don't want to diminish the effectiveness of the workout routine.

Essentially...
Mon: D1/D2
Tue: D3
Wed: Rest
Thu: D1/D2
Fri: D3
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest


THANKS!

[wgbjeff]

Couple questions:

1) I was curious if there were any significant updates to the routine since it was initially posted...going through 165 pages would be quite the task. I am starting this Monday and just want to ensure I am working from the latest.
2) I only get 4 days to workout per week, and only about an hour each time, but I work from home and have some basic equipment in my office. I was going to do everything from day 1 and 2 that require the gym during the hour I have: Bench press, incline bench press, rope pressdowns, chest supported rows, and preacher curls. Then, when I got a break later in the day at home I would complete the exercises from day 1 and 2. I have dumbells and a pull-up bar in my home office, so I was going to do the overhead dumbbell extensions (single arm), dumbbell side laterals, chin-ups, pull-ups, and rear delt flys there. Hope that makes sense. Would that work, or is it a bad idea to mix up the exercises that way? I just don't want to diminish the effectiveness of the workout routine.

Essentially...
Mon: D1/D2
Tue: D3
Wed: Rest
Thu: D1/D2
Fri: D3
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest


THANKS!

That's actually a popular set up of the routine for those who can only work out 4 days in a week. About mixing up exercises...it's fine as long as you're sure you're able to work out from your office. This routine is intense so you'll be sweating and you'll eventually have to do weighted chinups/pullups. If you're already at that level, then you'll have to do your chins/pulls somewhere where you have access to weights.

[AD1984]

Kelei, would you recognize this workout for a woman? I typically lift 4x a week and do cardio 2x a week, but just finished my 12 week program and am looking for something new to overcome this plateau.

It'll work for women just as well as it does for the guys. However, if you are very new to weight lifting (I'm not sure if the 12 week program you're referring to is all you've done so far or not), you'd probably benefit from a different type of resistance training. There's a female subsection in the forums, you'll find a lot of good information there as well.

[lrd3]

hit that chest day today with the flat bench form as "prescribed" by kelei for the first time....
i did loose 10 lbs on that lift due to dropping the "power lifting form" but it hammered my chest like never before... good stuff man
I'm 2 hours out of the gym (home gym) and still holding a desent pump............
i cut my inclined bench off at the 10 rep count out of habit.. i racked and right away though "SHOOT i had another rep in me for sure"
i will have to constantly push for 12 reps from now on to keep my self from selling my self short... live and learn...

[ThatOneLurker]

Kelei,

what do you prefer BB shrugs in front of you, or behind the back? Is there any real difference between them or does it just boil down to personal preference?

And for dips, how do you prefer to do them? Forward lean? No forward lean?

[Kusie]

Currently bulking to 230 from 200. Would this routine be alright to do while bulking? I've been doing it for 2 weeks now and I just realized that I switched routines without even thinking about compound movements. I love the intensity of it.

Lol I like how everybody skipped over this question to answer Bigboob McGee's. It's a program meant to build muscle so yes it's meant to do while bulking.

[klift808]

Kelei when doing the flat bench press, when lying down (bar still on the machine), should it be eye level? Or neck? Or upper chest level? Im planning to try using shoulder width (was using wide grip before), and lowering to my upper abs if i can. Before i was only lowering to my mid chest because it feels weird when i lower to the upper ab area, its like the barbell is going to fall on me

[Kelei]

Currently bulking to 230 from 200. Would this routine be alright to do while bulking? I've been doing it for 2 weeks now and I just realized that I switched routines without even thinking about compound movements. I love the intensity of it.

Your routine has nothing to do with cutting or bulking, your calorie intake determines that.

Kelei, would you recognize this workout for a woman? I typically lift 4x a week and do cardio 2x a week, but just finished my 12 week program and am looking for something new to overcome this plateau.

There's no reason why you can't use this routine although you'd need to reduce your total reps to 30 instead of 50.

Kelei,

what do you prefer BB shrugs in front of you, or behind the back? Is there any real difference between them or does it just boil down to personal preference?

And for dips, how do you prefer to do them? Forward lean? No forward lean?

I prefer shrugs in front, I don't think there's a huge difference though. With dips you should try to remain upright if you're performing tricep dips and lean forward if you're performing chest dips.

Kelei when doing the flat bench press, when lying down (bar still on the machine), should it be eye level? Or neck? Or upper chest level? Im planning to try using shoulder width (was using wide grip before), and lowering to my upper abs if i can. Before i was only lowering to my mid chest because it feels weird when i lower to the upper ab area, its like the barbell is going to fall on me

Upper chest level.

[Jweik84]

I figured as much but I wanted to be sure. Thanks for the replies.

[adamxbomb]

Lol I like how everybody skipped over this question to answer Bigboob McGee's. It's a program meant to build muscle so yes it's meant to do while bulking.

^^This

hit that chest day today with the flat bench form as "prescribed" by kelei for the first time....
i did loose 10 lbs on that lift due to dropping the "power lifting form" but it hammered my chest like never before... good stuff man
I'm 2 hours out of the gym (home gym) and still holding a desent pump............
i cut my inclined bench off at the 10 rep count out of habit.. i racked and right away though "SHOOT i had another rep in me for sure"
i will have to constantly push for 12 reps from now on to keep my self from selling my self short... live and learn...

What "powerliftingg form" were you using?

[lrd3]

What "powerliftingg form" were you using?

lol... just alot of arch in back. with feet much farther back. (not great PL form ether)
i used the "xxxxxx " in that post because obviously i'm no power lifter lol..... but the slight change he helped me make took my leg drive out and made me feel the lift in my chest more than the previuse way i was benching...

[jedema]

(in a shocked and hurt tone) Just what are you accusing me of!!!

...............................

:shrug: what can I say, I've always been a sucker for a pretty face.

[Kelei]

(in a shocked and hurt tone) Just what are you accusing me of!!!

...............................

:shrug: what can I say, I've always been a sucker for a pretty face.

Haha, I don't see a face.........

[klift808]

I tried doing your style of bench press where I lower the bar to my upper abs and it really killed me. I was not able to do 10 reps of the bench press and I get tired easily compared to my old form wherein I lower the bar to my mid/upper chest area. Should I lower the weight and continue doing the form you mentioned?

By the way, I searched on youtube different forms and I saw this (the one you recommend), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6I0z_d4xqY around 1:50 into the video he is going to show the form. Is this the right one? He also mentioned that my elbows should be tucked to the side, and the barbell should touch the upper ab when going down?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJX5MKacR6M here is another vid from lee hayward. he mentions that you should arch your back, and also I noticed that he doesnt really lower the bar that much, im getting confused as to what is the proper form really.

[jedema]

Haha, I don't see a face.........

I don't know what your talking about... whistling...