Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[michaelkirby]

going to try this program out. getting sick of ss.
thinking of finding my maintenance and going for a recomp?
currently @178
any advice on what to do?

[Chicago1287]

You can be gaining fat at some points during the day and losing fat at other points during the day, if you eat below maintenance you'll be losing more fat than you gain over the entire day (you may store 100 grams of fat for the day but you'll also burn 150 grams for the day, the net result is a 50 gram fat loss). If you eat above maintenance you'll be gaining more fat than you lose over the entire day (you may store 150 grams of fat for the day but only burn 100 grams for the day, the net result is a 50 gram fat gain).

I see what you mean now. You're talking about the ongoing process. I thought you meant the end result of the day.

[Kelei]

going to try this program out. getting sick of ss.
thinking of finding my maintenance and going for a recomp?
currently @178
any advice on what to do?

Trial and error. Weigh yourself once every week and see what happens to your weight, if you start to drop below your starting weight you need to add a bit more food the following week, if you start to gain weight you need to cut back on your food etc. Within a few pounds is close enough, you don't need to stay exactly the same weight, just adjust your calorie intake up and down as you go along so that you remain near your starting weight.

[Kelei]

Kelei I know you put the rest and rep ranges as a set value for simplicities sake but do you find some variation in your own training, or have u just forced your body to adapt to these values???

My training doesn't vary, the longer you stick with one style of training the better your body adapts to it and becomes more efficient. Anyone who uses this routine for long enough will start to notice that they recover faster and faster between sets as the months/years go by.

The first time I tried 100 reps of each exercise it took me almost 4 hours to complete my workout because I had to rest a lot between sets, these days I can complete my workout in 2.5 hours because my body is more accustomed to this type of training.

My friend who has been using this routine for 4 years can complete his 50 reps of each exercise in 1 hour 15 mins (most of the guys here are taking 2 hours or longer).

[S15]

Just had another question in regards to dieting. you mentioned that you preferred the bulk-> recomp over bulk/cut?

From what I understand it becomes harder and harder to lose fat as your bf drops lower, so I was just wondering whether a recomp would still be viable for an individual looking to dip into the single digit bf figures? I always thought you'd have to actually go on a cut to get your bf levels that low as your body tries harder to hold on to the fat with lower bf%.

thanks in advance!

[Kelei]

Just had another question in regards to dieting. you mentioned that you preferred the bulk-> recomp over bulk/cut?

From what I understand it becomes harder and harder to lose fat as your bf drops lower, so I was just wondering whether a recomp would still be viable for an individual looking to dip into the single digit bf figures? I always thought you'd have to actually go on a cut to get your bf levels that low as your body tries harder to hold on to the fat with lower bf%.

thanks in advance!

As your BF% gets lower it becomes harder to maintain muscle, if you try to lower your BF% too low you'll sacrifice too much muscle so trying to get too lean isn't really worth it. 8% is about as low as you should ever go as a natural lifter, you'll maintain more muscle mass at 10% and still look lean and fit.

The only people who should cut are the very fat people (until they drop to a moderate BF%), anyone with a moderate BF% is better served by recomping. Anyone who's already lean and wants to gain weight should increase their calories so that they gain 10 pounds and then recomp at this new heavier weight until they lean out again.

[S15]

As your BF% gets lower it becomes harder to maintain muscle, if you try to lower your BF% too low you'll sacrifice too much muscle so trying to get too lean isn't really worth it. 8% is about as low as you should ever go as a natural lifter, you'll maintain more muscle mass at 10% and still look lean and fit.

The only people who should cut are the very fat people (until they drop to a moderate BF%), anyone with a moderate BF% is better served by recomping. Anyone who's already lean and wants to gain weight should increase their calories so that they gain 10 pounds and then recomp at this new heavier weight until they lean out again.

thanks Kelei! that clears things up. I'm about 15% bf, going to recomp until 10% and start bulking from there.
Looking forward to the before and after pictures. So glad I stumbled upon this thread.

[MARKLORIE]

Very similar to what I am doing with my current routine, except I give each muscle groups it's own day. (Shoulders, Hamstrings, Back, Chest, Quads, Arms) with calves and forearms every day, abs every other day, and obliques on non-ab days. Once the whole period is over I take a day off. I For each exercise, I complete 40 seconds time under tension, 15 seconds rest, 30 seconds time under tension, 10 seconds rest, 20 seconds time under tension. All that for 1 set, and 3-4 sets for each exercise. The differences in the way that you and I are doing this are really only a small matter of variation, and I will say this to you.

I am 6 weeks in, and I have seen some amazing results. The program isn't entirely responsible, as I have developed a few tricks and techniques, regardless though, I could see your workout performing the same gains, and possibly a little bit more in the strength department since I don't think you focus as much on TUT as I do. Best of luck though, and I would love to hear about your results when it is all over with.

[ThatOneLurker]

I find that the flat bench is the only exercise I actually need to do warm up sets for.


I went in cold today with no warm up sets and my working set felt a ton heavier.


I don't know how you do it Kelei, I'm sure you bench like 300lbs more than the rest of us lol

[alex1986]

My training doesn't vary, the longer you stick with one style of training the better your body adapts to it and becomes more efficient. Anyone who uses this routine for long enough will start to notice that they recover faster and faster between sets as the months/years go by.

The first time I tried 100 reps of each exercise it took me almost 4 hours to complete my workout because I had to rest a lot between sets, these days I can complete my workout in 2.5 hours because my body is more accustomed to this type of training.

Out of curiosity, how long have you personally been training on this program?

[traineeh]

I did 12 reps first set on 135lbs for bench

Today I did 9 reps first set on 145lbs for bench.. do I stay at this weight or drop 5lbs for 10 reps on first set?

Thanks

[Kelei]

Out of curiosity, how long have you personally been training on this program?

Almost 5 years although the first 2 years were on and off, I was experimenting with a few different training styles at the time before I finally settled with this routine full-time.

[Kelei]

I did 12 reps first set on 135lbs for bench

Today I did 9 reps first set on 145lbs for bench.. do I stay at this weight or drop 5lbs for 10 reps on first set?

Thanks

Stay with the new weight, dropping down to as low as 8 reps is fine, just work your way back up to 12. If you drop below 8 reps it means you've added too much weight.

[traineeh]

Stay with the new weight, dropping down to as low as 8 reps is fine, just work your way back up to 12. If you drop below 8 reps it means you've added too much weight.

You're the man

[michaelkirby]

Trial and error. Weigh yourself once every week and see what happens to your weight, if you start to drop below your starting weight you need to add a bit more food the following week, if you start to gain weight you need to cut back on your food etc. Within a few pounds is close enough, you don't need to stay exactly the same weight, just adjust your calorie intake up and down as you go along so that you remain near your starting weight.

Thanks for the reply man. Goin to Start this monday but start off with the 30reps for two weeks and increase as I go! Will throw up before and after pics and try keep a log on this. After going through all 42 pages I'm ready to go.

[RoddyLive]

Guys remember to EAT on this template

[Jooceman]

Here's another video for anyone who is new to front squats and wants some tricks to help with clean grip.

[PumpingPounds]

This looks great

Just what i am looking for once i have finished SS.

I do have a question though.. there doesn't seem to be any overhead press work?

There is a Overhead extension (single arm) But i thought that was a Triceps exercise,not a shoulder exercise.

Is an overhead press not required on this program or have i miss read something?

Thanks Guys.

[ThatOneLurker]

This looks great

Just what i am looking for once i have finished SS.

I do have a question though.. there doesn't seem to be any overhead press work?

There is a Overhead extension (single arm) But i thought that was a Triceps exercise,not a shoulder exercise.

Is an overhead press not required on this program or have i miss read something?

Thanks Guys.

The overhead extension is for the triceps no shoulders


there's no overhead pressing work because Kelei has expressed that your front delts get hit hard enough from the combined effort of flat and incline bench which you'll soon come to realize when you start the routine up

[PumpingPounds]

The overhead extension is for the triceps no shoulders


there's no overhead pressing work because Kelei has expressed that your front delts get hit hard enough from the combined effort of flat and incline bench which you'll soon come to realize when you start the routine up

Cool thanks for that..looking foward to this workout!

[davo26]

seem to remember a few pages back that you recommended a real shallow incline press after the flat bench. i think this was a reply to someone with a 45 degree angle, and you said that was waaaaay to steep, and that 30 degrees was still too steep.

im in the same boat here, so id just like to ask why that is? surely a really small angle would nearly be the same as what i would have just done on flat bench? but now with a lighter weight? id have thought a higher incline would work the upper chest more, so id be interested in why such a small angle.

and what sort of angle would you call optimum? i havent got a really small angle on my bench, but is it worth sticking a length of kitchen worktop under the head of the bench instead for example?

be interested to hear your thoughts on this thanks.

[wgbjeff]

Forget about whether you're eating below, at or above maintenance, it's irrelevant.

If your glycogen stores are full and you eat more carbohydrate some of it will be converted to fat and some of it will be burned immediately, how much is converted to fat and how much is burned immediately depends upon your current activity (not overall daily activity, I mean literally the activity you're doing at the time of digestion). I'll repeat this again.

If you're sitting down doing nothing perhaps 20% of the glucose entering your bloodstream will be burned immediately while the other 80% will be stored as fat. If however you're out walking you'll perhaps burn 50% immediate while only 50% is stored as fat. If you're engaged in higher intensity exercise you'll burn perhaps 80% immediately and only store 20% as fat.

I think you're confusing yourself, in your number 2 example those extra 125 grams of carbs will be both burned immediately and stored as fat but overall you'll still be losing more fat for the day than you gain. Seeing as you're not meeting your maintenance calorie requirements your body will burn more fat than usual to make up the calorie difference.

So there are two completely distinct things at work here,

- The fate of ingested carbohydrate depends upon your glycogen stores and your current activity during the digestion period.
- Overall fat loss or gain for the day is determined by your total daily calorie intake.

You can be gaining fat at some points during the day and losing fat at other points during the day, if you eat below maintenance you'll be losing more fat than you gain over the entire day (you may store 100 grams of fat for the day but you'll also burn 150 grams for the day, the net result is a 50 gram fat loss). If you eat above maintenance you'll be gaining more fat than you lose over the entire day (you may store 150 grams of fat for the day but only burn 100 grams for the day, the net result is a 50 gram fat gain).

should any of this be a concern for those on this routine and bulking?

[Mr-Nathan]

in terms of form, should we ensure we maintain complete extension and contraction of muscles, or is it okay to stop just before.

for example with preacher curls, how much should we extend?

[Kelei]

seem to remember a few pages back that you recommended a real shallow incline press after the flat bench. i think this was a reply to someone with a 45 degree angle, and you said that was waaaaay to steep, and that 30 degrees was still too steep.

im in the same boat here, so id just like to ask why that is? surely a really small angle would nearly be the same as what i would have just done on flat bench? but now with a lighter weight? id have thought a higher incline would work the upper chest more, so id be interested in why such a small angle.

and what sort of angle would you call optimum? i havent got a really small angle on my bench, but is it worth sticking a length of kitchen worktop under the head of the bench instead for example?

be interested to hear your thoughts on this thanks.

I'd say the optimum angle is around 15 degrees, your grip should be very slightly wider than shoulder width, this is the best way to emphasize the clavicular head.

[Kelei]

should any of this be a concern for those on this routine and bulking?

Not really.

[Kelei]

in terms of form, should we ensure we maintain complete extension and contraction of muscles, or is it okay to stop just before.

for example with preacher curls, how much should we extend?

A full ROM is usually best for most exercises although it's not practical with all exercises. During preacher curls you should lower the weight to full arm extension. Incline curls are a great alternative if you find preacher curls uncomfortable.

[kRaop]

I'm really enjoying this routine. It is hard as fcuk, but after some time you get used to it. And the best thing is keeping a log ( oh my god why didn't I do this earlier... ), I love writing "add more weight next time" beside an exercise after a workout !

I had to change the routine a bit due to some preferences, it looks like this now :

D1

Incline Barbell Bench Press ( Smith Machine )
Flat Barbell Bench Press
Rope Press downs
Overhead Dumbbell Extensions
Lateral Raises ( Machine )



D2

Pull Ups
Chin Ups
Seated Cable Rows
Rear Delt Flyes
Preacher Curls


D3

Leg Press
Leg Curls
Leg Extensions
Hyper extensions
Standing Calf Raises
Seated Calf Raises

I need to get my form on Overhead Tricep Extensions right, maybe I'll try them seated next time.
I feel I am lacking a bit hamstring workout, since the Hyper extensions mainly target lower back. Is it OK to add 20 more reps to leg curls?

[wgbjeff]

My deload starts on wednesday after today's D2 and tomorrow's D3. I was wondering whether I should keep calories high when I start the deload? Right now I was bulking and they were 500-600 above maintenance

[lajoo]

My deload starts on wednesday after today's D2 and tomorrow's D3. I was wondering whether I should keep calories high when I start the deload? Right now I was bulking and they were 500-600 above maintenance

Definitely keep them high,you will notice a lot of gains on a deload,in both your strength and your physique.

[garardn01]

So I think I may give this routine a try, but curious about one thing. Would it make any sense to do certain exercises with heavier weight to 25 reps? For instance, do Bench Press heavier to 25reps and everything else to 50 reps? For a split between low rep strength and endurance.

Just a thought. The routine I do now (as recommended by Tom Mutaffis) does lower reps for the main compounds exercises (squats, DL, bench press, chin ups, OH Press etc) and high reps for other work (rows, incline press, etc).