Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[Mr-Nathan]

Don't drink that crap.

oh man. is this okay?

http://www.vitalitedairyfree.co.uk/#/nutrition

[Kelei]

oh man. is this okay?

http://www.vitalitedairyfree.co.uk/#/nutrition

Too many ingredients and too much polyunsaturated fat. You need real butter, the only ingredients should be cream, water and salt (reduced salt is better).

Most of the fat in your diet should be saturated and monounsaturated, we only need very small amounts of polyunsaturated fat (O3 + O6). Vegetable oil, sugar and sodium are the deadly trio.

[Mr-Nathan]

Too many ingredients and too much polyunsaturated fat. You need real butter, the only ingredients should be cream, water and salt (reduced salt is better).

Most of the fat in your diet should be saturated and monounsaturated, we only need very small amounts of polyunsaturated fat (O3 + O6). Vegetable oil, sugar and sodium are the deadly trio.

but that dairy . when i finish this tub I'll try going back to butter, but i'll be complaining like a little b*tch if i my crap starts getting the consistency of my piss

[Kelei]

but that dairy . when i finish this tub I'll try going back to butter, but i'll be complaining like a little b*tch if i my crap starts getting the consistency of my piss

It's lactose (milk sugar) that causes diarrhea. Milk is high in lactose, soft cheese contains a small amount of lactose (because it's not fully fermented), hard cheese contains virtually no lactose because it's been fully fermented. Butter contains zero lactose, it's perfectly fine for lactose intolerant people to eat butter.

[Mr-Nathan]

It's lactose (milk sugar) that causes diarrhea. Milk is high in lactose, soft cheese contains a small amount of lactose (because it's not fully fermented), hard cheese contains virtually no lactose because it's been fully fermented. Butter contains zero lactose, it's perfectly fine for lactose intolerant people to eat butter.

oh really?

thanks for this. man it just shows, Dr's really don't know what they are talking about. I went to the Dr and they were surprised that butter didn't effect me.

[FatSoonGone]

You should cut, reduce your calories so that you start losing aound 1 pound per week. It's difficult to judge progress when BF% is high, we need to be able to see the muscles themselves.

Even though I have little muscle?
I'm 5"10
Last time I check my body fat I was at 26.9%
130lbm and 49.7fat I know I've lost some fat since then. Should I cut to 160 or for how long? Or just drop my calories a bit?

[davo26]

Even though I have little muscle?
I'm 5"10
Last time I check my body fat I was at 26.9%
130lbm and 49.7fat I know I've lost some fat since then. Should I cut to 160 or for how long? Or just drop my calories a bit?

mate, im in exactly the same boat. tipped the scales at 14 stone, even tho my arms and legs are skinny (check my photos on profile if you like). i was thinking eat eat eat, keep exercising, put on muscle, then cut.
kelei took a look and said cut now (in my head i knew it) but im scared of losing muscle too. got to say hes right. im eating 2000 cals a day from 2500, lost a few pounds, kept exercising, and my lifts havent gone down. i dont know how low ill go before slow bulking, but ill try and do it properly rather than just eat anything.
difference is, this is a good weights routine, with plenty of volume, i was p*ssing about with a 3X10 split routine, sometimes going 3 or 4 days without lifting. now im doing it most days and coupled with weight loss im starting to get there. trust kelei, he knows what hes talking about.

[mattmpz]

Just finished the entire thread. Took a couple days but great read for sure.

Curious about the extra chest work you had talked about about 10 pages back Kelei.

You were talking about doing D1 chest work normally then adding 50 reps on D2D3 as well. By week 4 you should be lifting 40% of original D1 weight.

If my 10RM is 160lbs flat bench should I aim for lowering it 10% a week until I hit that 40% mark on week 4?

Week 1: 160lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 2: ~145lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 3: ~130lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 4: ~95lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3

Is this correct or am I understanding it wrong?

[jplatt92091]

Just finished the entire thread. Took a couple days but great read for sure.

Curious about the extra chest work you had talked about about 10 pages back Kelei.

You were talking about doing D1 chest work normally then adding 50 reps on D2D3 as well. By week 4 you should be lifting 40% of original D1 weight.

If my 10RM is 160lbs flat bench should I aim for lowering it 10% a week until I hit that 40% mark on week 4?

Week 1: 160lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 2: ~145lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 3: ~130lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 4: ~95lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3

Is this correct or am I understanding it wrong?

I think the idea is you lift as much weight for as many reps as you can on each day. Not to lower the weight in a set plan, but only lower it when you cant perform 8 reps of the previous weight anymore for the first set. And by the 4th week it should be about 40% lower than when you started. You shouldn't follow a set weight plan. At least that's what I got from it. I could be wrong.

[davo26]

I think the idea is you lift as much weight for as many reps as you can on each day. Not to lower the weight in a set plan, but only lower it when you cant perform 8 reps of the previous weight anymore for the first set. And by the 4th week it should be about 40% lower than when you started. You shouldn't follow a set weight plan. At least that's what I got from it. I could be wrong.

thats the way i understood it too.

[davo26]

kelei, can i ask about alcohol please?

ive got a few nights out lined up over the next few weeks, and im sure others have too over christmas.
if youre gonna consume a good few hundred empty calories from beer, and youre trying to follow an eating plan to cut, is it better to eat a lot less that day, or eat normally and take the hit on the extra sh*t calories?

i assume its the former, but i just wondered what the trade off would be with muscle loss if hundreds of calories have come from alcohol and not nutritious food.

[FatSoonGone]

mate, im in exactly the same boat. tipped the scales at 14 stone, even tho my arms and legs are skinny (check my photos on profile if you like). i was thinking eat eat eat, keep exercising, put on muscle, then cut.
kelei took a look and said cut now (in my head i knew it) but im scared of losing muscle too. got to say hes right. im eating 2000 cals a day from 2500, lost a few pounds, kept exercising, and my lifts havent gone down. i dont know how low ill go before slow bulking, but ill try and do it properly rather than just eat anything.
difference is, this is a good weights routine, with plenty of volume, i was p*ssing about with a 3X10 split routine, sometimes going 3 or 4 days without lifting. now im doing it most days and coupled with weight loss im starting to get there. trust kelei, he knows what hes talking about.

got it just finished modifying my diet and cutting out calories.

[davo26]

got it just finished modifying my diet and cutting out calories.

you logging what you eat? im using myfitnesspal.com.

[FatSoonGone]

you logging what you eat? im using myfitnesspal.com.

yes but i just write it down. i pretty much eat everything the same day to make it easier for me. I'm dropping my calories to 2375 from 2800. will not do cardio only lift heavy

[lajoo]

This type of training is fuking addictive! I can't wait for tomorrow,been sleeping a lot better last couple of days too.

[Kelei]

Even though I have little muscle?
I'm 5"10
Last time I check my body fat I was at 26.9%
130lbm and 49.7fat I know I've lost some fat since then. Should I cut to 160 or for how long? Or just drop my calories a bit?

Reduce your calories so that you start losing weight, 26.9% BF is way too high. Would you rather have 20 inch fatceps or lean 15 inch arms? There's no point having big arms if they're fat lol, it doesn't even look like you workout.

You need to cut until you can see your abdominals.

Just finished the entire thread. Took a couple days but great read for sure.

Curious about the extra chest work you had talked about about 10 pages back Kelei.

You were talking about doing D1 chest work normally then adding 50 reps on D2D3 as well. By week 4 you should be lifting 40% of original D1 weight.

If my 10RM is 160lbs flat bench should I aim for lowering it 10% a week until I hit that 40% mark on week 4?

Week 1: 160lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 2: ~145lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 3: ~130lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3
Week 4: ~95lbs D1D2D3 off D1D2D3

Is this correct or am I understanding it wrong?

You perform 50 total reps 7 days per week until your strength drops by 20%, if you start at 200 x 10 you keep going until you can only perform 160 x 10, you don't go out of your way to lower your weights, you simply lower them when you're no longer strong enough to complete 10 reps.

If we start at 200 x 10 we might find that after 3 days we can only manage 200 x 8, next workout we'll drop the weight to 195 and might manage 10 reps, a few days later we'll only be able to manage 195 x 8 so we'll lower the weight down to 190 next workout and might get 10 reps again, once we can only complete 8 reps with 190 we'll lower the weight again down to 185 etc. We keep going until we can only manage 160 x 10 (20% strength decrease from our starting weight). Then we'll back right off and watch our bench blow past our old PR.

kelei, can i ask about alcohol please?

ive got a few nights out lined up over the next few weeks, and im sure others have too over christmas.
if youre gonna consume a good few hundred empty calories from beer, and youre trying to follow an eating plan to cut, is it better to eat a lot less that day, or eat normally and take the hit on the extra sh*t calories?

i assume its the former, but i just wondered what the trade off would be with muscle loss if hundreds of calories have come from alcohol and not nutritious food.

Keep eating properly.

[lajoo]

Kelei, I've had shoulder issues in the past and the last D1 workout i was having some pain through my last sets of bench,
Do you recommend i do some rotator cuff work? if so,where should i put them?

[Kelei]

Kelei, I've had shoulder issues in the past and the last D1 workout i was having some pain through my last sets of bench,
Do you recommend i do some rotator cuff work? if so,where should i put them?

Whereabouts is the pain? Rotator cuff work (external rotations etc) may or may not help you, it depends. Rotator cuff work should be performed on D2.

What does your bench press form look like?

[lajoo]

Whereabouts is the pain? Rotator cuff work (external rotations etc) may or may not help you, it depends. Rotator cuff work should be performed on D2.

What does your bench press form look like?

Its like inside the shoulder,some sort of sharp pain,I'll take videos of several sets next push day.It's not a constant pain throughout the whole set

EDIT: i also felt it while doing lateral raises,although it wasn't as bad as when i was benching

[Kelei]

Its like inside the shoulder,some sort of sharp pain,I'll take videos of several sets next push day.It's not a constant pain throughout the whole set

Sometimes a big pump can cause your muscles to swell and press against nerves, is the pain worse near the end of a set when the pump is greatest? Does the pain persist after you stop working out? So the pain isn't at the rear of your shoulder or upper back area? That's a good sign because pain there usually indicates a rotator cuff issue.

If it was a tendon rubbing against a bone, impingement or bursitis you would have constant pain even when not in the gym. If there were any kind of actual structural damage/inflammation you'd be sore 24/7.

I'll take a look at your bench pess form after you post a video.

[lajoo]

Sometimes a big pump can cause your muscles to swell and press against nerves, is the pain worse near the end of a set when the pump is greatest? Does the pain persist after you stop working out? So the pain isn't at the rear of your shoulder or upper back area? That's a good sign because pain there usually indicates a rotator cuff issue.

If it was a tendon rubbing against a bone, impingement or bursitis you would have constant pain even when not in the gym. If there were any kind of actual structural damage/inflammation you'd be sore 24/7.

I'll take a look at your bench pess form after you post a video.

Yes its at the end of the set and no i have no problem right now and i can move my shoulders freely and its not at the rear of my shoulders.Usually happens in the rest-pause sets throughout the end but its not constant,some sets i had it some sets i didn't.

[Kelei]

Yes its at the end of the set and no i have no problem right now and i can move my shoulders freely and its not at the rear of my shoulders.Usually happens in the rest-pause sets throughout the end but its not constant,some sets i had it some sets i didn't.

It sounds to me like it's just a pump/swelling issue, pumped muscles can press against nerves, especially in the shoulder area because it's so compact. Your form can vary from rep to rep and set to set so this would explain why it hurts during some reps/sets but not other reps/sets, sometimes it rubs/presses against the nerve and sometimes it doesn't. Makes sense?

Rubbing or pressing against a nerve will cause immediate pain but the pain will quickly go away, there should be no lingering pain, you shouldn't be sore 24/7 like you would be if you had actually damaged something (tendonitis, bursitis, tear etc)

I'll still take a look at your form anyways.

[lajoo]

It sounds to me like it's just a pump/swelling issue, pumped muscles can press against nerves, especially in the shoulder area because it's so compact. Your form can vary from rep to rep and set to set so this would explain why it hurts during some reps/sets but not other reps/sets, sometimes it rubs/presses against the nerve and sometimes it doesn't. Makes sense?

Rubbing or pressing against a nerve will cause immediate pain but the pain will quickly go away, there should be no lingering pain, you shouldn't be sore 24/7 like you would be if you had actually damaged something (tendonitis, bursitis, tear etc)

I'll still take a look at your form anyways.

Yeah that makes sense,is there any way to avoid it? increasing flexibility etc? and should i do RC work or is it not necessary?It worries me a bit cause the pain might make me alter my form and actually damage something.

Thanks,my next D1 workout will be wednesday,I also posted some before pics,I would appreciate your input

[Kelei]

Yeah that makes sense,is there any way to avoid it? increasing flexibility etc? and should i do RC work or is it not necessary?It worries me a bit cause the pain might make me alter my form and actually damage something.

Thanks,my next D1 workout will be wednesday,I also posted some before pics,I would appreciate your input

Are you lowering the bar to your upper abs instead of your chest?

[berkeberke]

I decided to switch to the full-body split the other day solely out of convenience (was still loving the original routine and have made noticable gains, but my workouts have been running a bit longer than i can afford by doing it that way). If I'm doing the full-body routine 5-6 days per week, what kind of gains (size-wise) can i expect vs. the original routine? From what I've noticed since starting the full-body routine and from Jooceman's progress, it seems to be a bit better for strength gains than the original, so I'm just concerned about the difference in how much muscle I'll gain in the full body vs. the original

[lajoo]

Are you lowering the bar to your upper abs instead of your chest?

Yeah i started doing that when you mentioned it earlier on in this thread,Helped me gain a bit of strength too

[Kelei]

I decided to switch to the full-body split the other day solely out of convenience (was still loving the original routine and have made noticable gains, but my workouts have been running a bit longer than i can afford by doing it that way). If I'm doing the full-body routine 5-6 days per week, what kind of gains (size-wise) can i expect vs. the original routine? From what I've noticed since starting the full-body routine and from Jooceman's progress, it seems to be a bit better for strength gains than the original, so I'm just concerned about the difference in how much muscle I'll gain in the full body vs. the original

You'll gain plenty of muscle as well although you can expect to lose a little bit of visual size for the time being because your muscles won't store as much glycogen. This size will return quickly if you start training with a high volume per session again.

[Kelei]

You perform 50 total reps 7 days per week until your strength drops by 20%, if you start at 200 x 10 you keep going until you can only perform 160 x 10, you don't go out of your way to lower your weights, you simply lower them when you're no longer strong enough to complete 10 reps.

If we start at 200 x 10 we might find that after 3 days we can only manage 200 x 8, next workout we'll drop the weight to 195 and might manage 10 reps, a few days later we'll only be able to manage 195 x 8 so we'll lower the weight down to 190 next workout and might get 10 reps again, once we can only complete 8 reps with 190 we'll lower the weight again down to 185 etc. We keep going until we can only manage 160 x 10 (20% strength decrease from our starting weight). Then we'll back right off and watch our bench blow past our old PR.

If this is confusing to any of you there's another way we can do this. Instead of decreasing weight every time you can only manage 8 reps you can simply stick with your starting weight until your reps drop even lower.

So if you were to start with a 200 x 10 bench press you could simply bench 7 days per week until you can only manage 5 reps per set and then back off, you'll rebound past 200 once your recovery has caught up. This is probably the easiest and simplest way to go about it, there's no need to change your weights.

[berkeberke]

You'll gain plenty of muscle as well although you can expect to lose a little bit of visual size for the time being because your muscles won't store as much glycogen. This size will return quickly if you start training with a high volume per session again.

Alright awesome. I've only been on the full body routine for a couple of days, but so far I like it a lot better than the original routine. Since I'm only doing one set, I'm not psyching myself out in my mind about having to do another 40 reps, so I'm really able to push myself to my limits for that one set for each exercise

[TurboRyan]

My chest look smaller to me so would be overtraining if i add dumbbell flyes in D1?