Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[Kelei]

So if my body was --> l (Vertical)
Then my line of pull would be --> __ (Pull movement of arms)

Sorry if it's a stupid question, just making sure so i don't fuss up.

You should be pulling the weight directly towards your chest in a straight line, think of it as a reverse flat bench press where you pull instead of push. It doesn't matter if your body is vertical, angled or even supine (as in inverted rows). Some examples below.

[RoddyLive]

Kelei and the rest of the people here.
Do you guys think I should make the log right this instant or wait until I get 50 posts(probably tomorrow or the day after) so that I can link pics and everything??

Just a short intro.My split is most likely going to be
D1-Pull
D2-Push
D3-Legs
Rest days will be added whenever needed to allow flexibility

Did day 1 today LOVED IT!

[Kelei]

Kelei and the rest of the people here.
Do you guys think I should make the log right this instant or wait until I get 50 posts(probably tomorrow or the day after) so that I can link pics and everything??

Just a short intro.My split is most likely going to be
D1-Pull
D2-Push
D3-Legs
Rest days will be added whenever needed to allow flexibility

Did day 1 today LOVED IT!

Go spend some time in the misc section and you'll have 50 posts in no time, the only problem is you may come out of there in the red lol.

[RoddyLive]

You should be pulling the weight directly towards your chest in a straight line, think of it as a reverse flat bench press where you pull instead of push. It doesn't matter if your body is vertical, angled or even supine (as in inverted rows). Some examples below.

Thanks for that Kelei and sorry for the trouble.

My judgment was right. I did a hammer strength plate loaded plain vertical version of the second video with a pronated grip(palms facing away from my body).

[Kelei]

Thanks for that Kelei and sorry for the trouble.

My judgment was right. I did a hammer strength plate loaded plain vertical version of the second video with a pronated grip(palms facing away from my body).

Sounds good, horizontal rows are definitely one of the most important exercises when it comes to building a balanced physique, it helps to balance out your pressing and prevent your shoulders from rounding forward. Many (most I should say) recreational bodybuilders have poor posture from too much pressing and not enough pulling.

[RoddyLive]

Sounds good, horizontal rows are definitely one of the most important exercises when it comes to building a balanced physique, it helps to balance out your pressing and prevent your shoulders from rounding forward. Many (most I should say) recreational bodybuilders have poor posture from too much pressing and not enough pulling.

Yup read alot about it from EliteFts articles. Reason for PULL being Day 1.

Sadly no machine for rear delts. Used really light db's. Thinking about splitting the reps with some rope face pulls. 25 each.

Some additional questions.
1.) There is no lying hamstring curl machine at the place I train. Only seated leg curls(hits hammies but done seated). What would I do instead of the lying hamstring curls?

2.) Push day tomorrow. Barbell for both flat and incline right? your thoughts on using the smith machine for just the inclines?

[Kelei]

1.) There is no lying hamstring curl machine at the place I train. Only seated leg curls(hits hammies but done seated). What would I do instead of the lying hamstring curls?

2.) Push day tomorrow. Barbell for both flat and incline right? your thoughts on using the smith machine for just the inclines?

Perform seated leg curls instead. I prefer to use a barbell for both flat and incline bench press, dumbbells are simply impractical once you get very strong. I'm not a huge fan of the smith machine so I'd suggest avoiding it.

If possible you should use safety bars when performing bench press, I actually perform my bench pressing in a power rack for this reason, bench press can cause serious injury or even death if you drop a heavy barbell (or dumbbell) on your chest/neck/head. I've actually had guys use weighted push-ups (adding plates in a backpack) instead of bench press because they trained at home without any safety equipment.

[RoddyLive]

Perform seated leg curls instead. I prefer to use a barbell for both flat and incline bench press, dumbbells are simply impractical once you get very strong. I'm not a huge fan of the smith machine so I'd suggest avoiding it.

If possible you should use safety bars when performing bench press, I actually perform my bench pressing in a power rack for this reason, bench press can cause serious injury or even death if you drop a heavy barbell (or dumbbell) on your chest/neck/head. I've actually had guys use weighted push-ups (adding plates in a backpack) instead of bench press because they trained at home without any safety equipment.

Seated leg curls worth it though? Isn't the ROM distance shorter than the lying curl version? Just making sure.hehe

Yeah the only place possible to do the bench press is in the power rack so I will definitely set up the safety bars.

Kelei stop freaking the hell out of me. I'm too young to die brah. I have not achieved AESTHETICS status yet. lulz.

[Kelei]

Seated leg curls worth it though? Isn't the ROM distance shorter than the lying curl version? Just making sure.hehe

Yeah the only place possible to do the bench press is in the power rack so I will definitely set up the safety bars.

Kelei stop freaking the hell out of me. I'm too young to die brah. I have not achieved AESTHETICS status yet. lulz.

Seated leg curls are fine.

[RoddyLive]

Seated leg curls are fine.

Alrightie. Excited for D3. Can't wait to work legs. It's been too long.

[Jooceman]

Go spend some time in the misc section and you'll have 50 posts in no time, the only problem is you may come out of there in the red lol.

stay away from the misc if you want to go anywhere with your bodybuilding goals. you will thank me later.

[RoddyLive]

stay away from the misc if you want to go anywhere with your bodybuilding goals. you will thank me later.

Lol that i am aware of. Don't worry i am staying safe

[Slayer86]

I think I'm already seeing gains lol This is a nice workout. I did preacher's the wrong way so my forearms were still sore. Also, would Db's be alright instead of the bar?

[RoddyLive]

It's only 12:30pm here in Canberra and i ate 1300cals in a span of 3hours.
Hunger is insane on this template Kelei.
Doing d2 in a few hours.

[gordoman21]

This program seems really solid.

I am only 16 and 150 lbs., and I am already pretty fit and muscular, but I think I'm going to try this program to gain some more muscle and mass. I have had a decent amount of experience with dumbbells but not so much barbells, so I have been spending the last few days practicing all the exercises in this workout so I can do them correctly. After the first three days, my legs are sore as hell but I'll take that as a good sign of future progress if I stay consistent. Also I think as a slight addition to the program I will swim 15-20 minutes after a workout every other day (I swim for my high school), and then do some ab exercises before workouts on the days that I don't swim.

My diet is pretty good: no junk food, lots of protein, veggies, and fruit. I try to eat a decent amount without overeating but I also want to gain some mass so I will probably have to start eating more pretty soon. Right now I also take whey protein and a good multivitamin (from my last workout program). My budget is pretty tight supplement-wise but my parents buy all my food. Are there any 'essential' supplements you would recommend for when I do this program? Creatine, glutamine, fishoil, BCAAs, or casein?

Looking forward to starting!

[Kelei]

Are there any 'essential' supplements you would recommend for when I do this program? Creatine, glutamine, fishoil, BCAAs, or casein?

I wouldn't say that supplements are essential but they do help quite a bit, I posted supplement advice in post 182.

[Kelei]

I think I'm already seeing gains lol This is a nice workout. I did preacher's the wrong way so my forearms were still sore. Also, would Db's be alright instead of the bar?

I assume you're talking about using dumbbells for preacher curls? It's fine. Some people experience wrist issues from double hand curls (barbell etc) and the best way to clear this up is to switch to single arm curls (dumbbells etc).

[RoddyLive]

I assume you're talking about using dumbbells for preacher curls? It's fine. Some people exeperience wrist issues from double hand curls (barbell etc) and the best way to clear this up is to switch to single arm curls (dumbbells etc).

Kelei you recommend machine preacher curls right?

[Kelei]

Kelei you recommend machine preacher curls right?

Not particularly although the machine version is great because it keeps tension on the muscles throughout the full range of motion. I like preacher curls because you can't cheat by using your back and front delts to help. Incline dumbbell curls are a good alternative.

[RoddyLive]

Not particularly although the machine version is great because it keeps tension on the muscles throughout the full range of motion. I like preacher curls because you can't cheat by using your back and front delts to help. Incline dumbbell curls are a good alternative.

I did them using the machine yesterday. Which method do you find most beneficial? Bb, db, ezbar or machine?

[Kelei]

I did them using the machine yesterday. Which method do you find most beneficial? Bb, db, ezbar or machine?

Machine.

[RoddyLive]

Machine.

Sweet. 18 more posts to go.hehe
Arm are very sore right now can't wait to do legs tomorrow!

[kc0716]

Question about finding out the 10 RMs.

I would like to take 3 days to find my 10 RMs for each D1/D2/D3 exercises. However, I have a question about this.

When I'm there to find the 10 RMs, should I do a FULL 50 REP of each exercise -> move onto to the next exercise to find out the 10 RMs?

What I mean by this is that,

Say I went in tomorrow to find my 10 RMs for Day 1.
Performing 1x10 RM of 1st exercise -> 2nd exercise -> 3rd exercise will give a significantly different list of 10 RMs compared to
Performing 1x10 RM of 1st exercise -> do it until 50 reps as I would do on the program -> 10 RM of 2nd exercise -> 50 reps of this, as I would do on the program etc etc.

Which way should it be done? (I hope you get what I'm asking, sorry my English is not perfect)

Also, by chin-up and pull-up, you just mean palm facing you vs palm facing away right?

[Mr-Nathan]

I did preacher's the wrong way so my forearms were still sore.

lmao wtf?

[Mr-Nathan]

Question about finding out the 10 RMs.

I would like to take 3 days to find my 10 RMs for each D1/D2/D3 exercises. However, I have a question about this.

When I'm there to find the 10 RMs, should I do a FULL 50 REP of each exercise -> move onto to the next exercise to find out the 10 RMs?

What I mean by this is that,

Say I went in tomorrow to find my 10 RMs for Day 1.
Performing 1x10 RM of 1st exercise -> 2nd exercise -> 3rd exercise will give a significantly different list of 10 RMs compared to
Performing 1x10 RM of 1st exercise -> do it until 50 reps as I would do on the program -> 10 RM of 2nd exercise -> 50 reps of this, as I would do on the program etc etc.

Which way should it be done? (I hope you get what I'm asking, sorry my English is not perfect)

Also, by chin-up and pull-up, you just mean palm facing you vs palm facing away right?

you're right about chin up vs pull up

you don't have to be perfect man, about the 10rm thing. just start the routine, do 50 of each, or 40 if you want less volume. see how it goes. if you can do more than 10 in first set, maybe up the weight a little. it doesnt even matter, you could also only weight 10sec before starting set two. just aim for 3 reps. adjust time, not weight.

[kc0716]

you're right about chin up vs pull up

you don't have to be perfect man, about the 10rm thing. just start the routine, do 50 of each, or 40 if you want less volume. see how it goes. if you can do more than 10 in first set, maybe up the weight a little. it doesnt even matter, you could also only weight 10sec before starting set two. just aim for 3 reps. adjust time, not weight.

So, 10-3-3-3-3...until 50 is the "ideal" setup?

[Mr-Nathan]

So, 10-3-3-3-3...until 50 is the "ideal" setup?

yes

[AmazinJason]

Hey man, nice post. I skimmed the first few pages but didn't want to read the entire thread and I have a couple questions.

1. From the looks of it, this is basically a push/pull/legs split done 6 days per week. I'm wondering what you think of changing the order of the days so it is pull -> push -> legs instead, as I feel my back/rear delts need more work than my chest/front delts.

2. Why romanian deadlifts before front squats? I currently use those two exercises right now as my main quad/hamstring exercises, but I always do front squats first followed by romanian deadlifts.

3. 10 reps seems a bit high for front squats. I have never gone above 5 reps before for a set of front squats. Should I just sack up my balls and go bust out 10 reps on the first set and get to 50 reps, or do you think it would be okay to do say... 5 reps on the first set (with my 5 rep max) followed by 10 sets of 2 reps, to get a total of 25 reps. Or something like that.

4. What's the reason for 2 vertical pulls and only 1 horizontal pull? I've always done a bit more horizontal pulling than vertical pulling. I don't do any vertical pushing because I feel my front delts are worked sufficiently from horizontal pushes, which is why I try to do more horizontal pulling to match my horizontal pushing.

5. Thoughts on exercise substitutions? I prefer dumbbells over barbells for any sort of pressing. I just think it would be a hassle to constantly pick up the dumbbells and have to get them into starting position. I'm not sure what others have experienced in this aspect with dumbbells. I like doing close-grip-palms-in pulldowns (basically a chin up on a lat pulldown machine) over chin ups. Though I prefer doing pull ups over wide-grip-palms-out pulldowns. Would it be okay if I used the pulldown machine instead of chin ups for close-grip-palms-in and doing regular pull ups on a pull up bar?

[RoddyLive]

Hey Jason regarding DB's for pressing go ask Jooceman. He does DB inclines instead of BB

[Kelei]

Hey man, nice post. I skimmed the first few pages but didn't want to read the entire thread and I have a couple questions.

1. From the looks of it, this is basically a push/pull/legs split done 6 days per week. I'm wondering what you think of changing the order of the days so it is pull -> push -> legs instead, as I feel my back/rear delts need more work than my chest/front delts.

2. Why romanian deadlifts before front squats? I currently use those two exercises right now as my main quad/hamstring exercises, but I always do front squats first followed by romanian deadlifts.

3. 10 reps seems a bit high for front squats. I have never gone above 5 reps before for a set of front squats. Should I just sack up my balls and go bust out 10 reps on the first set and get to 50 reps, or do you think it would be okay to do say... 5 reps on the first set (with my 5 rep max) followed by 10 sets of 2 reps, to get a total of 25 reps. Or something like that.

4. What's the reason for 2 vertical pulls and only 1 horizontal pull? I've always done a bit more horizontal pulling than vertical pulling. I don't do any vertical pushing because I feel my front delts are worked sufficiently from horizontal pushes, which is why I try to do more horizontal pulling to match my horizontal pushing.

5. Thoughts on exercise substitutions? I prefer dumbbells over barbells for any sort of pressing. I just think it would be a hassle to constantly pick up the dumbbells and have to get them into starting position. I'm not sure what others have experienced in this aspect with dumbbells. I like doing close-grip-palms-in pulldowns (basically a chin up on a lat pulldown machine) over chin ups. Though I prefer doing pull ups over wide-grip-palms-out pulldowns. Would it be okay if I used the pulldown machine instead of chin ups for close-grip-palms-in and doing regular pull ups on a pull up bar?

1. Split order doesn't really matter.

2. It's a personal preference of mine, you can perform front squats first if you want to, just make sure to switch the order of leg curls and leg extensions as well so that you go quads, hamstrings, quads, hamstrings.

3. 10 reps isn't high, if you can't manage to complete the full 50 reps at first you can start with 40 or even 30 until you're more accustomed to the routine.

4. Vertical pulling is more important.

5. I don't like using dumbbells for bench press because you waste too much evergy between sets, they're also impractical once you get very strong. Real chin-ups and pull-ups are better than pulldowns with equivalent grips.