Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[Kelei]

Thanks...I'll get some. I can never go to failure on calves just because of that issue. As far as supplements, I remember a while back you told me to get zinc. I don't see that you recommended zinc in this thread though....do you still think it's a good idea to take that? If so, what's the benefit of taking it?

Also, what's the Desiccated liver useful for?

A zinc deficiency will lower your testosterone levels. I don't always suggest a zinc supplement because there's no need for it if you're eating plenty of meat, dairy products and eggs which all of you should be doing anyways.

Desiccated liver supplies cytochrome P450, nucleic acids, choline, inositol and vitamins/minerals.

[ThatOneLurker]

Desiccated liver supplies cytochrome P450, nucleic acids, choline, inositol and vitamins/minerals.

What's that mean in layman's terms haha

[Kelei]

What's that mean in layman's terms haha

Cytochrome P450 is an anti-fatigue factor and is also involved in steroid metabolism (it supports testosterone production and reduces testosterone to estrogen conversion). Nucleic acids are involved in satellite cell proliferation in response to microtrauma (they help your muscles repair/grow faster). Choline and inositol are involved in fat metabolism and prevent fat from being deposited in the liver (fatty liver disease), they're also vital for proper cholesterol metabolism (I mentioned earlier in the thread that cholesterol plays an important role in the recovery process and increases strength gains during resistance training).

I'm only skimming the surface though, there are factors in liver that are still complete mysteries to us. Our ancestors have been eating liver for a very long time, it'd be most unwise to stop all of a sudden. Cutting something out of the diet we evolved on is just as harmful as adding something we're unaccustomed to (excessive omega 6 and sugar etc).

[traineeh]

Kneeling, I don't like the standing version, it hurts your feet once you start adding weight. Perform them kneeling and add some weight once you can perform 30 reps.

30 reps in a row? I've been doing 3 sets of 10 reps... maybe I should go to failure then and forget the sets?

[chloeamboise]

is this too much for a girl?

D1 - Chest, front/side delts, triceps
D2 - Upper back, rear delts, biceps
D3 - Legs, lower back
D4 - Repeat D1
D5 - Repeat D2
D6 - Repeat D3
D7 - Rest

D1 - Bench press, incline bench press, rope pressdowns, overhead dumbbell extensions (single arm), dumbbell side laterals
D2 - Chin-ups, pull-ups, chest-supported rows (or seated rows), rear delt flyes, preacher curls
D3 - Romanian deadlifts, front squats, leg curls, leg extensions, standing calf raises, seated calf raises

For each exercise pick a weight that you can lift for a maximum of 10 reps (15 for standing calf raises, 20 for seated calf raises). You need to complete 50 (75 for standing calf raises, 100 for seated calf raises) total reps of each exercise. You perform your first set of each exercise as normal but you only rest for 30 seconds between each set (if you can even call them proper sets). You perform as many sets as it takes until you complete your 50 total reps. Obviously you won't be able to complete 10 reps in each set but it doesn't matter, this is how it's supposed to be. Perform as many reps as you can after each 30 second rest period (try to stop 1 rep short of failure, if you'll fail to perform 6 reps you should stop after rep 5). An example below.

Set 1 = 10 reps
Rest 30 seconds
Set 2 = 5 reps
Rest 30 seconds
Set 3 = 3 reps
Rest 30 seconds
Set 4 = 3 reps
Rest 30 seconds
Set 5 = 3 reps

You've complete 24 reps so far, keep going until you've completed 50. This is just an example, the number of reps you get in reality may be different but the principle remains the same. Have a longer rest between different exercises so that you're not too fatigued from the previous exercise. Once you notice that a particular exercise is starting to feel easy (you're getting more reps in general) you need to add some more weight the next time you perform that exercise.

You're going to need to use a training journal or some other method of tracking your progress, you need to record the amount of weight you use for each exercise and as soon as you notice a particular exercise starting to get easy you need to make a note so that you remind yourself to add more weight on that exercise next workout.

You may feel absolutely terrible at first because this is likely going to be a drastic increase over your usual training volume but this will pass, you need to have some faith in the routine, in the long term it will more than compensate you for your hard work and perseverance.

I should also add that it's a good idea to increase your carbohydrate intake while performing this routine, it's quite demanding on your glycogen stores. Don't just add any carbohydrate, sugars aren't very effective at replenishing muscle glycogen because only 50% of sugar can be used to replenish muscle glycogen, the other 50% can only replenish liver glycogen (and then get converted to fat when the liver's glycogen stores are full). You need complex carbohydrates for this purpose, I suggest white rice or pasta. I would suggest adding 1 full cup (uncooked) of white rice to your diet each day and I suggest that you should eat half of it before your workout and the other half after your workout, if this isn't possible I suggest you simply eat the full amount after your workout.

If there are any questions I'll do my best to answer them. If you decide to give this routine a try feel free to report back to this thread as you go along and let me know how you're going or to ask for advice if there are any issues.

[Kelei]

30 reps in a row? I've been doing 3 sets of 10 reps... maybe I should go to failure then and forget the sets?

You add more weight once you can perform 30 reps in a row. After my first set to failure I used to rest-pause sets of 5 until I completed 100 total reps. I was up to 30 reps with an additional 60 kg (about 132 pounds) on my back before I dropped direct ab training from my routine.

I'm going to add direct ab work back into my routine.

[Kelei]

is this too much for a girl?

Reduce the total reps to 30 (45 and 60 for calves), women don't recover as quickly as men.

[traineeh]

You add more weight once you can perform 30 reps in a row. After my first set to failure I used to rest-pause sets of 5 until I completed 100 total reps. I was up to 30 reps with an additional 60 kg (about 132 pounds) on my back before I dropped direct ab training from my routine.

I'm going to add direct ab work back into my routine, my latest girl is obsessed with abs, I've already got abs but it wouldn't hurt to make them a bit more prominent. I might try to lose 10 or so pounds and reduce my BF% a little bit as well, it'll add impact.

Alright I'm going to try that.. maybe not to 100 but I'll try my best..

also is it normal that I'm not getting sore anymore from the workouts after the first week? Should I ramp up the weight or am I good?

[Chicago1287]

Alright I'm going to try that.. maybe not to 100 but I'll try my best..

also is it normal that I'm not getting sore anymore from the workouts after the first week? Should I ramp up the weight or am I good?

Soreness doesn't mean anything....you get used to the workout. After a few weeks of doing this routine last year, I had no soreness at all but still got the results.

[ThatOneLurker]

Soreness doesn't mean anything....you get used to the workout. After a few weeks of doing this routine last year, I had no soreness at all but still got the results.

did you run the 3, 4 or 6 day?

[berkeberke]

Started a log, check it out!
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=147128003

[Melecio17]

started my log as well !

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post928292183

[Jooceman]

subbed both ^^

[Mallen12]

Would it be as effective to split it like this?...

d1
d2
d3
rest
d1
d2
d3
rest
(Repeat)

[lwevert]

It would probably be beneficial. i ran it like that for the first week due to a busy schedule.

Would it be as effective to split it like this?...

d1
d2
d3
rest
d1
d2
d3
rest
(Repeat)

[Chicago1287]

did you run the 3, 4 or 6 day?

I ran it 4 days a week...2 Upper Body, 2 Lower Body. I'll be doing 6 days this next time around (planning on next week).

[Kelei]

Would it be as effective to split it like this?...

d1
d2
d3
rest
d1
d2
d3
rest
(Repeat)

3 on 1 off works fine.

[Kelei]

also is it normal that I'm not getting sore anymore from the workouts after the first week? Should I ramp up the weight or am I good?

Yes it's normal to stop getting sore, it doesn't matter. You only increase the weight if you can complete 12 reps (18 and 24 for calves) in your first set.

[pkahnman]

Would it be as effective to split it like this?...

d1
d2
d3
rest
d1
d2
d3
rest
(Repeat)

I like this a lot

[ThatOneLurker]

Couple of questions before I run this tomorrow:

1) Do you go ATG on front squats or is parallel fine? Is there any benefit of going to ATG vs parallel?


2) Not so much to do with the routine but, how do you keep your appetite up? Especially while bulking?

I notice that my appetite decreases a lot after 9pm and also in the morning I'm not able to eat a lot. I actually wait 1-2 hours after I wake up, skip breakfast and just have a heavy meal.

[lwevert]

Yes it's normal to stop getting sore, it doesn't matter. You only increase the weight if you can complete 12 reps (18 and 24 for calves) in your first set.

I'm closing in on the end of week three and I think my body is starting to adapt a little. Getting stronger in some lifts and my legs aren't as sore anymore. Well last calf workout destroyed me.

[lwevert]

Couple of questions before I run this tomorrow:

1) Do you go ATG on front squats or is parallel fine? Is there any benefit of going to ATG vs parallel?


2) Not so much to do with the routine but, how do you keep your appetite up? Especially while bulking?

I notice that my appetite decreases a lot after 9pm and also in the morning I'm not able to eat a lot. I actually wait 1-2 hours after I wake up, skip breakfast and just have a heavy meal.

I'm in the same boat as you. I am never hungry in the morning until around 10 am. So I drink a weight gain shake so I can get the calories in and then eat pre-lunch snack at 1000 and a real lunch around 1230.

[Kelei]

Couple of questions before I run this tomorrow:

1) Do you go ATG on front squats or is parallel fine? Is there any benefit of going to ATG vs parallel?


2) Not so much to do with the routine but, how do you keep your appetite up? Especially while bulking?

I notice that my appetite decreases a lot after 9pm and also in the morning I'm not able to eat a lot. I actually wait 1-2 hours after I wake up, skip breakfast and just have a heavy meal.

Go as deep as your flexibility allows, the vastus medialis is best trained in the deep position. Your appetite should take care of itself really, if you find yourself unable to finish off your food for the day chances are you're simply trying to eat too much. It also takes time to get used to eating more food, have you ever noticed how fat people can gradually eat more and more food as they get bigger? Eventually they can easily eat 2-3 times as much food as they could when they were a healthy weight.

[ThatOneLurker]

Go as deep as your flexibility allows, the vastus medialis is best trained in the deep position. Your appetite should take care of itself really, if you find yourself unable to finish off your food for the day chances are you're simply trying to eat too much. It also takes time to get used to eating more food, have you ever noticed how fat people can gradually eat more and more food as they get bigger? Eventually they can easily eat 2-3 times as much food as they could when they were a healthy weight.

Gotcha, thanks

I always figured "listen to your body, it'll tell you if you're eating too much"

But I've read that while bulking it's normal to have a lowered appetite and that at times it's harder to stuff down the food needed for growth

[Kelei]

But I've read that while bulking it's normal to have a lowered appetite and that at times it's harder to stuff down the food needed for growth

That's nonsense, most guys simply eat far too many calories when bulking, of course their appetites are going to be lowered because their bodies are screaming at them to stop eating so much. If you're gaining more than half a pound per week you're eating too many calories and you'll be gaining far too much fat.

Your muscles can only grow so fast and eating enough calories to gain half a pound per week will support a maximal rate of growth, adding even more calories (i.e enough to gain a pound per week) doesn't make your muscles grow any faster, all it does it add unnecessary fat to your body.

[ThatOneLurker]

Would rep if I could, but I have to spread some around lol


In that case, As long as you're making a conscious effort to get a lot of carbs/protein is there much of a reason to count calories/macros when you can just listen to your body? (In terms of eating too much or too little)

[Kelei]

Would rep if I could, but I have to spread some around lol


In that case, As long as you're making a conscious effort to get a lot of carbs/protein is there much of a reason to count calories/macros when you can just listen to your body? (In terms of eating too much or too little)

There's no need to count your macros, just make sure you get enough protein and carbs (just count them in grams, forget macros). You don't have to count calories, all you need to do is record what you're eating. If you need to lose weight you cut some food out of your diet, if you need to gain weight you add some more food, it's all pretty simple and I don't know why some people go overboard with macro and calorie counting, you don't need to be that exact, close enough is good enough as I always say.

[ThatOneLurker]

There's no need to count your macros, just make sure you get enough protein and carbs (just count them in grams, forget macros). You don't have to count calories, all you need to do is record what you're eating. If you need to lose weight you cut some food out of your diet, if you need to gain weight you add some more food, it's all pretty simple and I don't know why some people go overboard with macro and calorie counting, you don't need to be that exact, close enough is good enough as I always say.

Alright, thank you.

Excited to run D1 tomorrow.

[Kelei]

Excited to run D1 tomorrow.

You'll be hooked, I've already told you guys that this kind of training is addictive, you should ask the guys who've been using the routine for a few weeks already.

[gingersgym]

Kelei, i have always had good mind muscle connection with my chest and its further ahead than my delts, would it be advisable to add another delt excersize in to try and get them to catch up?

or is more less when it comes to delts?
thanks