Intermediate/Advanced Routine

[KrepE]

Can I add more exercises to D1, such as bench and incline pec flyes.

Why do you want to add more exercises if you can't perform the 50 original reps? I suggest you get better at those and then after some time on the routine you add more to lagging body parts.

[AD1984]

haha it's not an excuse, I was going to see how it goes.
I can only eat morning, lunch, and when I get home. I don't have time at work to eat anything in big in my breaks (apart from lunch). I can cope with the workout, and how long it takes but if i'm not eating enough food I think it's going to start having a negative impact. This is why I'd rather get it down to around 2 hours then I can eat more in the evening. I just want to get good results at the end, not work myself in to the ground without sufficient calories

That's how the rest of the world eats at work. You talk as if your diet is pre-determined by faith and out of your control. So you'd rather cut your workouts rather than eat an extra bagel or something at lunch?! If you don't put in the work at the gym, what and when you eat is irrelevant anyway.

I think after 3 days you're realizing that this is going to be actually hard and you're pussying out, and already trying to cut corners. And you know what, it's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but don't BS yourself or us. You either have what it takes or you don't. It's up to you to figure out which category you fall in.

[ThatOneLurker]

Note to self: Don't piss off AD.

[jamespwl]

That's how the rest of the world eats at work. You talk as if your diet is pre-determined by faith and out of your control. So you'd rather cut your workouts rather than eat an extra bagel or something at lunch?! If you don't put in the work at the gym, what and when you eat is irrelevant anyway.

I think after 3 days you're realizing that this is going to be actually hard and you're pussying out, and already trying to cut corners. And you know what, it's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but don't BS yourself or us. You either have what it takes or you don't. It's up to you to figure out which category you fall in.

Amazing. Preach it.

[JealousFist]

That's how the rest of the world eats at work. You talk as if your diet is pre-determined by faith and out of your control. So you'd rather cut your workouts rather than eat an extra bagel or something at lunch?! If you don't put in the work at the gym, what and when you eat is irrelevant anyway.

I think after 3 days you're realizing that this is going to be actually hard and you're pussying out, and already trying to cut corners. And you know what, it's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but don't BS yourself or us. You either have what it takes or you don't. It's up to you to figure out which category you fall in.

OMG! I'm actually LOL'ing and cracking up! Jeeze that was awesome, AD I don't like the sweating and breathing hard part is there some way I can drop that? ~ J/K! Don't hurt me!

[dkvill23]

Finished Day 2
Gotta love the intensity!

Question:

For day 2 for Chin up and pull ups,

Chin Ups (body weight, 160lbs)
9
3
2
1
1
1 - Just Negative
1 - Just Negative
1 - Just Negative
1 - Just Negative

I aimed for 30 and I know I couldn't do it. Is it alright if I can't do 30 or should I do reverse grip close and work my way up to 50? or should I continue with doing it with my own body weight?

And for pull ups, after the exercise above, I was so tired that I only managed to do one half assed pull up lol. So I decided to go with a wide grip pulldown is that fine too?





btw I have created a log for this workout peeps, if anyone wants to see my progress lol.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=151091903

[miikeman]

Just started this today and loved the intensity.

When planning to do it for an extended period of time, say 6 months to a year, should the actual exercises be switched up to similar movements or variations occasionally, or should they remain the same as recommended?

[jasonbo]

I like to mix the high rep and low rep days. Gives me more pump and gains!

[jamespwl]

Just started this today and loved the intensity.

When planning to do it for an extended period of time, say 6 months to a year, should the actual exercises be switched up to similar movements or variations occasionally, or should they remain the same as recommended?

It is designed for you to never have to change anything. Kelei says change for the sake of change is garbage. I'd stick with it and just keep improving unless you have to change some things in order to keep yourself interested. I think he tried to pick the most effective exercises for the routine so I am sticking to them.

[adamxbomb]

That's how the rest of the world eats at work. You talk as if your diet is pre-determined by faith and out of your control. So you'd rather cut your workouts rather than eat an extra bagel or something at lunch?! If you don't put in the work at the gym, what and when you eat is irrelevant anyway.

I think after 3 days you're realizing that this is going to be actually hard and you're pussying out, and already trying to cut corners. And you know what, it's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but don't BS yourself or us. You either have what it takes or you don't. It's up to you to figure out which category you fall in.

ahhhhhh, epic $hit right here, I vote her for president

[Gre85g]

Just dropping in to say that I'm getting stuck in to this program and started a journal to keep myself honest!

The link is: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151095843

[Kelei]

Just started this today and loved the intensity.

When planning to do it for an extended period of time, say 6 months to a year, should the actual exercises be switched up to similar movements or variations occasionally, or should they remain the same as recommended?

There's no need to change exercises, you can add more exercises later on once you're very advanced.

A question:

I consider myself a beginner and its recommended for beginners to aim for only 30 reps. But i only train 3days/week. Is it still recommended to only do 30 repe or should i compensate for the lack of frequency and do 50 reps still?

Stats:
176 cm
71kg
27years

bench: 80kg*4
Deadlifts: 125kg*4
Rdl: 105kg*11
Overhead press: 52.5kg*4
Chins: bodyweight (71kg)+20kg*5

50 reps once per week is fine.

Hi Kelei,

I've just finished day 3 of the over reach and don't want to continue with the set up because it's taking me about 3 hours to complete. I've that because I go after work, get there for about 5:30 and finish 8:30, I'm actually eating less/the same than I was before. I'm just worried that it's going to start having a negative impact.

I'm looking to try and get it cut down to around 2 hours, the equivalent of one workout and a half. No idea how I do this as I like all the exercises, would you drop any, cycle them every other day or something, or lower the reps?

Reduce your reps to 20 if you need to save time.

Finally today was Officially D1, as Kelei recomended I'm going to cut down from 192 to 170 here are the macros that i planned to use to achieve that

Carbs 200
Protein 170
Fat 80
Total calories a day 2200

1. What do you think about it Kelei??? is that enought protein

2. Also since I'm starting on a cut even when I read time and time again you recomending sticking 30 reps for that, that's just feels too little to me I'm used to the volume how do you feel if i do 40 reps ???

That's enough protein, you can increase your reps to 40 if you feel up to it.

Not more protein to cut, but I've heard that when you're cutting you need more protein to avoid muscle loss

That's only if you reduce your carbohydrate intake too low, if you don't eat enough carbohydrate your body will convert protein into glucose (gluconeogenesis), if you don't supply enough dietary protein your body will break down its own muscles in order to scavenge enough protein to support gluconeogenesis.

Assuming you don't reduce your carbohydrate intake too low there's no need to eat additional protein during a cut.

[wgbjeff]

That's how the rest of the world eats at work. You talk as if your diet is pre-determined by faith and out of your control. So you'd rather cut your workouts rather than eat an extra bagel or something at lunch?! If you don't put in the work at the gym, what and when you eat is irrelevant anyway.

I think after 3 days you're realizing that this is going to be actually hard and you're pussying out, and already trying to cut corners. And you know what, it's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but don't BS yourself or us. You either have what it takes or you don't. It's up to you to figure out which category you fall in.

AD i just quit this routine after 5 months come at me bro


(notsrs)

[VLokkY]

I'll ask it here again (previous page I already did ask it but got no awnser).

As for going to failure.
I've got a very weak chest albeit that it doesn't show muscle wise.

So when training the failure comes very 'sudden' one rep it's fine and the next rep on the push motion it just doesn't go anymore.
(for comparison 135lb 8x4set bench press // 290lb 8x4 deadlift // 245lb 8x4 Squat)

So does going to failure really hinder the growth with this training or is it ok if it's just for lets say Bench press?

[robosphere]

That's how the rest of the world eats at work. You talk as if your diet is pre-determined by faith and out of your control. So you'd rather cut your workouts rather than eat an extra bagel or something at lunch?! If you don't put in the work at the gym, what and when you eat is irrelevant anyway.

I think after 3 days you're realizing that this is going to be actually hard and you're pussying out, and already trying to cut corners. And you know what, it's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but don't BS yourself or us. You either have what it takes or you don't. It's up to you to figure out which category you fall in.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AD1984 again.

[Kelei]

I'll ask it here again (previous page I already did ask it but got no awnser).

As for going to failure.
I've got a very weak chest albeit that it doesn't show muscle wise.

So when training the failure comes very 'sudden' one rep it's fine and the next rep on the push motion it just doesn't go anymore.
(for comparison 135lb 8x4set bench press // 290lb 8x4 deadlift // 245lb 8x4 Squat)

So does going to failure really hinder the growth with this training or is it ok if it's just for lets say Bench press?

Training to/near failure is optimal, even for bench press. As you gain more experience with training to/near failure you'll be able to better judge whether or not you'll be able to complete your next rep. I misjudge perhaps once per month, I just know the feeling so well.

[yeashescool]

Kelei,
Just wanted to say I have read through majority of the postings (75 pages) and I'm really looking forward to trying this. I will be following this to an exact tee, and nutrition will be spot on. I'm currently sitting at around 190lbs with 14% bf, and hoping to maintain the 190lbs and manage to get to 10%bf within 3-4 months. I don't really have any questions but just wanted to show my respects to such a person with great insight.

[shorkey]

Loving the program so far! Intense as hell!

It really made me discover 2 things: - My previous workouts were not intense enough and that Ive been training way too much in the low rep range. I always aimed for 6-8 but would usually augment the weight when I could hit 5-6 reps. I almost never did higher rep ranges so Im doscvering that my moderate rep strength aint that strong! I put away my ego and am lifting 10 rep weights and making sure to alwaus use good form and full range of motion.

Calves are very sore this morning and its leg day tonight again! Dis gonna be gud!

[j0ey9812]

Questions about:
D2 preacher curls, I don't have this machine that you can rest your arms on. Can I do a standing curl instead, or which other is the closest that can substitute for this?

[wgbjeff]

Questions about:
D2 preacher curls, I don't have this machine that you can rest your arms on. Can I do a standing curl instead, or which other is the closest that can substitute for this?

Incline db curls. Both arms at a time with the recommended rest or do one hand and switch to the next right after, repeat.

[davo26]

Questions about:
D2 preacher curls, I don't have this machine that you can rest your arms on. Can I do a standing curl instead, or which other is the closest that can substitute for this?

kelei advocates incline db curls, ideally with bench at around 45 degrees. these are what i do instead too. i believe he also prefers hammer grip on the 'lift', normal grip going down.

HTH

[KrepE]

Well this sucks this morning I did a weight in and my starting point isn't 192 is 194 I guess i misjudged how much 1 week of really bad eating can do to you, this is gonna be a long way to 170.

On the other hand i just finish my official D2 really loving this routine, Just one problem with it and has been mentioned before. My friend wich is not a training partner we just happened to train at the same gym was doing back today and he wanted to take turns at the pull up bar lol then he wanted to take turns at the rows, man I felt like a douche bag the entire time telling him to wait 'till i finish so he could go because i need specific times of rest and I have no idea how long it's going to take me to finish, I'm not letting no one mess up my times lol.

BTW I took my before pictures today in 3 months I'll have something to show.

[Mr-Nathan]

Kelei since starting the full body routine, i've started feeling sick throughout my workout. my diet has not changed. any idea on how to fix this?

also, what macros % wise, should we be looking to hit? P/C/F....

Thanks

[landus123]

That's how the rest of the world eats at work. You talk as if your diet is pre-determined by faith and out of your control. So you'd rather cut your workouts rather than eat an extra bagel or something at lunch?! If you don't put in the work at the gym, what and when you eat is irrelevant anyway.

I think after 3 days you're realizing that this is going to be actually hard and you're pussying out, and already trying to cut corners. And you know what, it's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but don't BS yourself or us. You either have what it takes or you don't. It's up to you to figure out which category you fall in.

I'm not sure what your aim is of posting this?

1. I decided to give the over-reach cycle a go
2. I have since found that it takes me 3 hours to complete the workout
3. My schedule at work and other commitments mean I don't have the time to get my food in to compensate for 3 hours work.
4. I have since asked Kelei for advice on how I change change the over-reach to cut down on the time it takes. That's not pussying out, that's being realistic with what I have and finding a way to carry on.
5. I don't have any need to BS you.

[gman44]

I'm not sure what your aim is of posting this?

1. I decided to give the over-reach cycle a go
2. I have since found that it takes me 3 hours to complete the workout
3. My schedule at work and other commitments mean I don't have the time to get my food in to compensate for 3 hours work.
4. I have since asked Kelei for advice on how I change change the over-reach to cut down on the time it takes. That's not pussying out, that's being realistic with what I have and finding a way to carry on.
5. I don't have any need to BS you.

I don't see the point in doing an "overreach" with 20 reps per exercise, if you can even call that an overreach. Do it right or make the sacrifices necessary, IMO.

[landus123]

I don't see the point in doing an "overreach" with 20 reps per exercise, if you can even call that an overreach. Do it right or make the sacrifices necessary, IMO.

At what point have you ever read I'm doing 20 reps per exercise? I do 50. I have tripled my volume for the week.

Anyway, if someone was doing 20 reps they could still over-reach. It's only 10 less than people that are doing 30. Without the 1-2 days rest

[jamespwl]

At what point have you ever read I'm doing 20 reps per exercise? I do 50. I have tripled my volume for the week.

Anyway, if someone was doing 20 reps they could still over-reach. It's only 10 less than people that are doing 30. Without the 1-2 days rest

No offense landus but not having time to eat enough in order to support your workout isn't really a valid excuse for anyone. If you wanted to it would be quite easy to make it happen. There are a lot of quick food ideas out there and you could even prepare some boiled eggs the night before. Takes me maybe 2-3 minutes to eat a few boiled eggs.

Now if you simply want a shorter workout and it isn't because you don't think you can eat enough.....that can be understood.

[landus123]

No offense landus but not having time to eat enough in order to support your workout isn't really a valid excuse for anyone. If you wanted to it would be quite easy to make it happen. There are a lot of quick food ideas out there and you could even prepare some boiled eggs the night before. Takes me maybe 2-3 minutes to eat a few boiled eggs.

Now if you simply want a shorter workout and it isn't because you don't think you can eat enough.....that can be understood.

Sigh

After work I'm doing my D1+D2 workouts. It takes me around 3 hours to get through it.
I am effectively tripling my usual workout volume for the week.
Kelei recommended I try to aim for 250 protein, 450 carbs, 100 or so fat.
Due to my working hours, travel and the the spent in the gym I don't have enough eating slots to consume this much food.
I'm eating a lot more than before, but not enough to support the volume of the workout.
I'm now looking to keep over-reaching, but reduce volume so that my workouts can be shorter and I have more time to eat, prepare etc.

If I didn't have a job, I would be able to better spread this amount of food out throughout the day etc

People that are saying I am cutting corners, making excuses should just try it and share how they fair.

D1+D2 for 50 reps, with 8 hours of work, 1 hour travel.
Eat enough food to support a workout this long, and enough to make gains.

[gingersgym]

Been on this routine for 6 months the standard set up...

Looking for advice on whether to cut or keep bulking...

let me know what you think guys

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1010444173

[gman44]

At what point have you ever read I'm doing 20 reps per exercise? I do 50. I have tripled my volume for the week.

Anyway, if someone was doing 20 reps they could still over-reach. It's only 10 less than people that are doing 30. Without the 1-2 days rest

20 reps is what Kelei suggested when you asked how to reduce the time in the gym..