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  1. #1
    ASSFUKKER6969 thefleshlight's Avatar
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    Ursolic Acid causes muscle gain and fat loss

    The beige fat thread reminded me of this:

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0039332

    Ursolic Acid Increases Skeletal Muscle and Brown Fat and Decreases Diet-Induced Obesity, Glucose Intolerance and Fatty Liver Disease

    Skeletal muscle Akt activity stimulates muscle growth and imparts resistance to obesity, glucose intolerance and fatty liver disease. We recently found that ursolic acid increases skeletal muscle Akt activity and stimulates muscle growth in non-obese mice. Here, we tested the hypothesis that ursolic acid might increase skeletal muscle Akt activity in a mouse model of diet-induced obesity. We studied mice that consumed a high fat diet lacking or containing ursolic acid. In skeletal muscle, ursolic acid increased Akt activity, as well as downstream mRNAs that promote glucose utilization (hexokinase-II), blood vessel recruitment (Vegfa) and autocrine/paracrine IGF-I signaling (Igf1). As a result, ursolic acid increased skeletal muscle mass, fast and slow muscle fiber size, grip strength and exercise capacity. Interestingly, ursolic acid also increased brown fat, a tissue that shares developmental origins with skeletal muscle. Consistent with increased skeletal muscle and brown fat, ursolic acid increased energy expenditure, leading to reduced obesity, improved glucose tolerance and decreased hepatic steatosis. These data support a model in which ursolic acid reduces obesity, glucose intolerance and fatty liver disease by increasing skeletal muscle and brown fat, and suggest ursolic acid as a potential therapeutic approach for obesity and obesity-related illness.
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    Muscle Man Manuel D3Baseball's Avatar
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    Interesting because it appears to be in vivo.

    This seems like a good sign for the oral ursolic acid supplements if that's the case -- I suppose the two questions I have are:

    Does the in vivo success in rats suggests in vivo success in humans?
    Does this shed any light on proper in vivo doses for humans?
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Interesting because it appears to be in vivo.

    This seems like a good sign for the oral ursolic acid supplements if that's the case -- I suppose the two questions I have are:

    Does the in vivo success in rats suggests in vivo success in humans?
    Does this shed any light on proper in vivo doses for humans?
    Would like to know these as well. Absorption seems to be another limiting factor.

    I wonder if Pat's topical is the way to go or if someone comes out with a liqui-gel type delivery system.
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Interesting because it appears to be in vivo.

    This seems like a good sign for the oral ursolic acid supplements if that's the case -- I suppose the two questions I have are:

    Does the in vivo success in rats suggests in vivo success in humans?
    Does this shed any light on proper in vivo doses for humans?
    Interesting, I've never heard of ursolic acid supplements. Anyone have any experience taking these?
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Does the in vivo success in rats suggests in vivo success in humans?
    The dynamic MOA is likely the same for humans.



    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Does this shed any light on proper in vivo doses for humans?
    The bioavailability of UA is species-specific, so humans will have to continue anecdotally experimenting with the doses.



    Originally Posted by olyrackcurls
    I wonder if Pat's topical is the way to go or if someone comes out with a liqui-gel type delivery system.
    Both should improve solubility/bioavailability however, when considering the lipophilicity of UA --> a liqui-cap formulation would be ideal.
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  6. #6
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    So basically...we know that if you absorb it, it works. But we still have no idea if it is ever getting absorbed.
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    So basically...we know that if you absorb it, it works. But we still have no idea if it is ever getting absorbed.
    The evidence indicates that UA is most definitely orally bioavailable in humans however, proper dosing protocols remain elusive at this point.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    The evidence indicates that UA is most definitely orally bioavailable in humans however, proper dosing protocols remain elusive at this point.
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  9. #9
    Muscle Man Manuel D3Baseball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    The evidence indicates that UA is most definitely orally bioavailable in humans however, proper dosing protocols remain elusive at this point.
    Seems like all the promising research might make someone fork over the dough to do some clarifying research on the topic.
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  10. #10
    hustlehands Hansolo261's Avatar
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    I've seen people dosing ursobolic as high as 20 pills per day which would mean you need 6 or 7 bottles.

    I personally ran it at 12 per day spread throught out the day with meals containing fat, a few grams of fish oil or just a spoon of olive oil. It seemed to work better this way. When I did increase the dosing my joint pain got so bad that I had trouble walking.
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  11. #11
    ASSFUKKER6969 thefleshlight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Interesting because it appears to be in vivo.

    This seems like a good sign for the oral ursolic acid supplements if that's the case -- I suppose the two questions I have are:

    Does the in vivo success in rats suggests in vivo success in humans?
    Does this shed any light on proper in vivo doses for humans?
    I believe it's impossible to quantify in vivo human brain activity, if that's what you're seeking. However, according to numerous discussions with pat, there is a linear corollary between rats and humans on multiple biological functions.

    Originally Posted by tjp5036 View Post
    Interesting, I've never heard of ursolic acid supplements. Anyone have any experience taking these?
    Yes

    Originally Posted by Hansolo261 View Post
    I've seen people dosing ursobolic as high as 20 pills per day which would mean you need 6 or 7 bottles.

    I personally ran it at 12 per day spread throught out the day with meals containing fat, a few grams of fish oil or just a spoon of olive oil. It seemed to work better this way. When I did increase the dosing my joint pain got so bad that I had trouble walking.
    I was taking 10 caps ursobolic per day and losing weight relatively well while keeping everything else static. I think I was down like 5-7lbs after a few weeks with ECA, 7 and 11 spray... I think R spray as well?

    But then I got on DNP
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    Originally Posted by thefleshlight View Post

    But then I got on DNP
    is it anywhere near as bad as i've heard?
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    Originally Posted by Hansolo261 View Post
    I've seen people dosing ursobolic as high as 20 pills per day which would mean you need 6 or 7 bottles.

    I personally ran it at 12 per day spread throught out the day with meals containing fat, a few grams of fish oil or just a spoon of olive oil. It seemed to work better this way. When I did increase the dosing my joint pain got so bad that I had trouble walking.
    hey jerkoff youre the same guy who ran ecdy and liked it. stay the **** out of this section
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    ASSFUKKER6969 thefleshlight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gashcader View Post
    is it anywhere near as bad as i've heard?
    Not even close, outside of the drink shyttons of water issue and you may wanna avoid carbs later in the day.... I wouldn't take it in the summer though; death would be certain. Lastly, at 600mg, it was hard to keep up my energy even when eating carbs, AZ iced teas, chinese food, etc.
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    Originally Posted by thefleshlight View Post
    Not even close, outside of the drink shyttons of water issue and you may wanna avoid carbs later in the day.... I wouldn't take it in the summer though; death would be certain. Lastly, at 600mg, it was hard to keep up my energy even when eating carbs, AZ iced teas, chinese food, etc.
    ok cheers, i dont know nearly enough to try it yet. but thanks for answer, and lethargy i can cope with
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    hustlehands Hansolo261's Avatar
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    If I did eat a certain amount of carbs, I got headaches and energy levels seemed low.
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    Originally Posted by Hansolo261 View Post
    If I did eat a certain amount of carbs, I got headaches and energy levels seemed low.
    I turned into an oven.
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    I superdosed it and really enjoyed it.
    I can do amazing things for your body composition. PM for more info.


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    Originally Posted by wakingmalice View Post
    I superdosed it and really enjoyed it.
    What was your dosing like? How much fat did you intake with it?
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    Originally Posted by wakingmalice View Post
    I superdosed it and really enjoyed it.
    waste

    Dose-linear pharmacokinetics of oleanolic acid after intravenous and oral administration in rats
    Jeong DW, Kim YH, Kim HH, Ji HY, Yoo SD, Choi WR, Lee SM, Han CK, Lee HS.
    Source

    College of Pharmacy and Medicinal Resources Research Institute, Wonkwang University, Iksan 570-749, Korea.

    Abstract

    The pharmacokinetics of oleanolic acid was evaluated in vitro and in vivo. From Caco-2 cell permeation studies, oleanolic acid was a low permeability compound with no directional effects, suggesting a low in vivo absorption mediated by a passive diffusion. Oleanolic acid was metabolically unstable following incubation with rat liver microsomes in the presence of NADPH. After intravenous injection at doses of 0.5, 1 and 2 mg/kg doses, oleanolicacid showed dose-linear pharmacokinetics as evidenced by unaltered CL (28.6-33.0 ml/min/kg), Vss (437-583 ml/kg), dose-normalized AUC (16.0-17.9 microg min/ml based on 1 mg/kg) and t1/2 (41.9-52.7 min). Following oral administration of oleanolic acid at doses of 10, 25 and 50 mg/kg, Tmax, t1/2, dose-normalized Cmax (66-74 ng/ml based on 25 mg/kg) and dose-normalized AUC (5.4-5.9 microg min/ml based on 25 mg/kg) were comparable between 25 and 50 mg/kg dose, but the plasma concentrations at 10 mg/kg dose were not measurable as they were below the limit of quantitation (2 ng/ml). The absolute oral bioavailability was 0.7% for oral doses of 25 and 50 mg/kg. The extent of urinary excretion was minimal for both i.v. and oral doses. The very low oral bioavailability of oleanolic acid could be due to a poor absorption and extensive metabolic clearance.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17163409
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    Originally Posted by thefleshlight View Post
    I don't know what this means :'(
    However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results - Dr. John Berardi
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    I don't know what this means :'(
    you no is reed the bold?
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    Originally Posted by thefleshlight View Post
    you no is reed the bold?
    Is the takeaway here that I'm wasting my time with the oral?
    However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results - Dr. John Berardi
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Is the takeaway here that I'm wasting my time with the oral?
    it looks like it means superdosing wont provide any extra benefits because it becomes less available



    i may have misunderstood it though.
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Is the takeaway here that I'm wasting my time with the oral?
    Well not exactly, but it's oral bioavailability is very low, kinda like resveratrol but worse.

    Originally Posted by gashcader View Post
    it looks like it means superdosing wont provide any extra benefits because it becomes less available

    i may have misunderstood it though.
    Yes and no. Usually by taking more of anything at once, you get a spike in bioavailability, however here at double the dose, the rate is not affected. Conversely, lets say you use UR Spray, you may only "need" to use a fraction of that to get much higher availability while costs would/could be decreased.
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    Originally Posted by thefleshlight View Post
    Well not exactly, but it's oral bioavailability is very low, kinda like resveratrol but worse.



    Yes and no. Usually by taking more of anything at once, you get a spike in bioavailability, however here at double the dose, the rate is not affected. Conversely, lets say you use UR Spray, you may only "need" to use a fraction of that to get much higher availability while costs would/could be decreased.
    i see thanks. UR spray is still expensive though and i've never tried it for that reason.
    is ursolic acid that effective that you'd say its worth it?
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    Been thinking about pulling the trigger on some UR caps or spray from PA.

    Was there ever a conclusion as to how it effected sperm (or if it even effected it at all)?
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    Originally Posted by gashcader View Post
    i see thanks. UR spray is still expensive though and i've never tried it for that reason.
    is ursolic acid that effective that you'd say its worth it?
    Though I've not used UR spray yet, you have to look at the "servings" per bottle. Ursobolic is relatively cheap, but if taken at 10 caps a day, you're going to need multiple bottles. The spray is pretty effective at delivering the ester TD and, I believe, is not a whole root/plant thing or extraction from basil or rosemary like the oral formulas.

    Originally Posted by sdfan13 View Post
    Been thinking about pulling the trigger on some UR caps or spray from PA.

    Was there ever a conclusion as to how it effected sperm (or if it even effected it at all)?
    Well, as far as I know, only the quoted below is what I've seen along with a 2002 rat sperm study that is corrobrated below in humans and goats.... but here's the question... WHY do you care if your sperm don't like to swim forward? Shyt, that's like a gift IMO

    The methanol extract (ME) and the n-butanol fractions of methanolic extract of Alstonia macrophylla Wall ex A. DC leaves were investigated on the forward motility (FM) of mammalian (goat and human) spermatozoa. The ME at 600 microg mL-1 as well as fraction B at 100 microg mL-1 concentrations showed marked inhibition of sperm FM in both goat and human species when tested by microscopic and spectrophotometric methods. Approximately 60-80% of the goat spermatozoa lost their FM when treated with 600 microg mL-1 of ME and 100 microg mL-1 of fraction B. At 100 microg mL-1 concentration, fraction B showed 90% loss of FM in human spermatozoa, while fraction B at 400 microg mL-1 concentration showed complete inhibition of sperm FM at 0 min. The inhibitory activity of fraction B increases with increasing concentration in a dose-dependent manner. Phytochemical study of the extract revealed that the leaf contains tannins, flavonoids, sterols, triterpenes, alkaloids and reducing sugars. Further fractionation and purification of the bioactive n-butanol part of ME showed the presence of ursolic acid (fraction B), beta-sitosterol (fraction A), beta-sitosterol glucoside and a mixture of minor compounds (fraction C, detected on thin-layer chromatography). The results reveal that fraction B (ursolic acid), a pentacyclic triterpene, has the potential of sperm motility inhibition and can serve as a topical vaginal contraceptive.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15854639
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    so as long as your doseing is broken up you feel it can be worth while should it be affordable... im just asking for everyone.. i have my own assumptions about the product.
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