Good replacement pulleys for lat pulldown?

[Ex-Terminator]

A few years ago, I bought a TDS lat/low row machine. The quality is decent/mediocre if anyone wants to know. Anyway, there's something I've always noticed: go from 50 to 70 pounds, all is well. Go from 70 to 100, all is well still. Get up to about 120-ish, and every 10 pounds you add feels like you've added 50.

I suspect that when you get much beyond 100 pounds, the pulleys can't handle the weight and start adding friction. I also suspect that better pulleys *might* solve the problem. The NewYorkBarbells website says that they're sealed ball bearing pulleys. Fair enough, but they're still plastic and cheap looking.

Any ideas on where to get more heavy-duty ones? All I see on the websites of Lowe's and Home Depot are pulleys as part of another device, not standalone.

Ideas?

[matchsprint]

Look up the Harken website and go look at some at West Marine. Not at all cheap, but they have fine ceramic bearings in the sheaves, they are completely removable for service, and the hardware is first rate. There are also other brands, any of which are much better than anything at the hardware store and anything that equipment makers install on their rigs.

A few years ago, I bought a TDS lat/low row machine. The quality is decent/mediocre if anyone wants to know. Anyway, there's something I've always noticed: go from 50 to 70 pounds, all is well. Go from 70 to 100, all is well still. Get up to about 120-ish, and every 10 pounds you add feels like you've added 50.

I suspect that when you get much beyond 100 pounds, the pulleys can't handle the weight and start adding friction. I also suspect that better pulleys *might* solve the problem. The NewYorkBarbells website says that they're sealed ball bearing pulleys. Fair enough, but they're still plastic and cheap looking.

Any ideas on where to get more heavy-duty ones? All I see on the websites of Lowe's and Home Depot are pulleys as part of another device, not standalone.

Ideas?

[CliveWarren]

Is it also possible that the actual coating is being compressed and causing friction. Not sure how to articulate this.

[ironwill2008]

^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A few years ago, I bought a TDS lat/low row machine. The quality is decent/mediocre if anyone wants to know. Anyway, there's something I've always noticed: go from 50 to 70 pounds, all is well. Go from 70 to 100, all is well still. Get up to about 120-ish, and every 10 pounds you add feels like you've added 50.

I suspect that when you get much beyond 100 pounds, the pulleys can't handle the weight and start adding friction. I also suspect that better pulleys *might* solve the problem. The NewYorkBarbells website says that they're sealed ball bearing pulleys. Fair enough, but they're still plastic and cheap looking.

Any ideas on where to get more heavy-duty ones? All I see on the websites of Lowe's and Home Depot are pulleys as part of another device, not standalone.

Ideas?

If the pulleys are actually 'sealed ball bearing,' there's nothing to be gained by replacing them unless one or more is actually damaged and won't spin freely (not very likely to be the problem). If the cable is plastic-coated (as most are), the added friction from heavy weight might be caused by the plastic coating becoming distorted and then binding in the slot in the pulley.

If this problem is annoying to you, your best bet is probably to just get rid of the entire machine and replace it with a commercial model. Trying to re-engineer home-level machines generally doesn't end well---or cheaply.

[Ex-Terminator]

If this problem is annoying to you, your best bet is probably to just get rid of the entire machine and replace it with a commercial model. Trying to re-engineer home-level machines generally doesn't end well---or cheaply.

You're right. It's also known as trying to "polish a turd." I re-learned that tonight. I ran all over the place trying to find compatible pulleys. I found what I thought might work, but no dice. It's a long, boring story.

So tomorrow I'm going to call a place in a nearby town that sells used gear, mostly commercial, and see what they have.

[jedpop]

I've been down this road before and it is possible to get this right...

Check the guide rods and, if it has a weight stack, check the bushings in the plates for wear. You could probably get replacement bushings for the weight plates and replacement guide rods but you have to ask yourself if this is worth it...

Check the cables for cracked, distorted coating. If you find any problems then it's time to look at getting replacement cables or quit this project.

First check with TDS and see if they sell replacement cables.

If they don't offer them then I suggest having custom cables made and the best that I have found is at http://www.aeroassemblies.com/wire-rope-products.html

Make sure to specify EVERFLEXPRO cable - it's high quality (the gold standard) used in fitness equipment. Detailed drawings are also needed - very detailed... You can use the existing cables as a guide but they may have stretched a little bit so you should be aware of the stretch (though stretch is probably not really a concern). If there is a weight stack bolt then know what the diameter, length, and pitch thread is for it. Does the cable have rubber stoppers? Measure them and make sure that you can get them. Any custom parts on the cable? If so, can they be reused or do you really want to do this?

Be prepared to spend $50 on each cable (if need to be replaced) + $20 for each pulley (not including shipping).

Get a good caliper and measure the following:
pulley bolt bore diameter (aka where the bolt goes through)
overall pulley diameter (need to avoid interference with pulley brackets)
diameter where the cable rests in the pulley (probably not that important but good to know)
width of the pulley (aka hub width, it needs to fit inside the brackets)
cable diameter - most likely 1/8" diameter cable coated to 3/16" diameter

With this info you can go to the following sites:
http://www.exercise-equipment-parts.com/pulleys.html
http://www.fullcirclepadding.com/cat...talog.cfm?C=36
https://kamway.com/index.php?_route_...onents/pulleys

If you find a pulley that matches your measurements then order a single pulley and confirm that it is going to work. If it does, then order what you need and git-r-dun...

I prefer aluminum pulleys with sealed bearings. Local stores will probably sell sheaves which I believe have bushings and not bearings.

At this point, you're about $250+ into it (not including your time) and do you have a functional machine? If not, then at least you can get $15 at the local metal recycler...

[Ex-Terminator]

I've been down this road before and it is possible to get this right...

Check the guide rods and, if it has a weight stack, check the bushings in the plates for wear. You could probably get replacement bushings for the weight plates and replacement guide rods but you have to ask yourself if this is worth it...

Check the cables for cracked, distorted coating. If you find any problems then it's time to look at getting replacement cables or quit this project.

First check with TDS and see if they sell replacement cables.

If they don't offer them then I suggest having custom cables made and the best that I have found is at http://www.aeroassemblies.com/wire-rope-products.html

Make sure to specify EVERFLEXPRO cable - it's high quality (the gold standard) used in fitness equipment. Detailed drawings are also needed - very detailed... You can use the existing cables as a guide but they may have stretched a little bit so you should be aware of the stretch (though stretch is probably not really a concern). If there is a weight stack bolt then know what the diameter, length, and pitch thread is for it. Does the cable have rubber stoppers? Measure them and make sure that you can get them. Any custom parts on the cable? If so, can they be reused or do you really want to do this?

Be prepared to spend $50 on each cable (if need to be replaced) + $20 for each pulley (not including shipping).

Get a good caliper and measure the following:
pulley bolt bore diameter (aka where the bolt goes through)
overall pulley diameter (need to avoid interference with pulley brackets)
diameter where the cable rests in the pulley (probably not that important but good to know)
width of the pulley (aka hub width, it needs to fit inside the brackets)
cable diameter - most likely 1/8" diameter cable coated to 3/16" diameter

With this info you can go to the following sites:
http://www.exercise-equipment-parts.com/pulleys.html
http://www.fullcirclepadding.com/cat...talog.cfm?C=36
https://kamway.com/index.php?_route_...onents/pulleys

If you find a pulley that matches your measurements then order a single pulley and confirm that it is going to work. If it does, then order what you need and git-r-dun...

I prefer aluminum pulleys with sealed bearings. Local stores will probably sell sheaves which I believe have bushings and not bearings.

At this point, you're about $250+ into it (not including your time) and do you have a functional machine? If not, then at least you can get $15 at the local metal recycler...

Great post and a good source of info, but if I remember correctly, this whole unit cost me about $300.00-ish brand new. I don't think it's worth it. My best bet is to either get a used commercial unit or switch to pull-ups.

[Ex-Terminator]

Update: I went and tried out a used commercial pulldown today. Honestly, the pull wasn't any sleeker than mine. Who knows? Maybe it's only the selectorized types that feel so silky smooth.

[CliveWarren]

I've been down this road before and it is possible to get this right...

Check the guide rods and, if it has a weight stack, check the bushings in the plates for wear. You could probably get replacement bushings for the weight plates and replacement guide rods but you have to ask yourself if this is worth it...

Okay, I really think this is probably where to start. I just picked up a functional trainer cheap, and when I assembled it the motion wasn't smooth at all. After cleaning the accumulated grease off the rods and lightly lubricating it felt much better. Grease is terrible for the rods, as the grease drys up and actually causes friction.

You should take some time and take the stack apart and run a rag through each bushing on every plate. Clean the guide rods up really good, (maybe you have some rust on them) and then find the most suitable lubricant. I've been using dry film teflon which seems pretty good. A lot of people recommend a silicone spray.

[jedpop]

Okay, I really think this is probably where to start. I just picked up a functional trainer cheap, and when I assembled it the motion wasn't smooth at all. After cleaning the accumulated grease off the rods and lightly lubricating it felt much better. Grease is terrible for the rods, as the grease drys up and actually causes friction.

You should take some time and take the stack apart and run a rag through each bushing on every plate. Clean the guide rods up really good, (maybe you have some rust on them) and then find the most suitable lubricant. I've been using dry film teflon which seems pretty good. A lot of people recommend a silicone spray.

^ Yeah, what Clive says is good (start with the simple things). On the guide rods I use a silicon spray that has teflon in it and it seems to do the trick. It's made for treadmills. Every 13 or so weeks I respray and it does the job. I seem to recall that you should avoid any silicon spray that has petroleum products in it because of the risk of it not being compatible with equipment parts.