Any Over 40's done any intermittent fasting based diets?

[acrawlingchaos]

Increased HGH output is the primary one.

If this is your reason for intermittent fasting, I wouldn't bother. Increased HGH production was seen in fasting lasting longer than 18-24 hours. This would make ADF not Lean gains more effective at this. This means that production is at it's highest when other factors of anabolism are not met. In other words, the increase in HGH during prolonged fasts will only serve to preserve lean mass. Natural fluctuations in hormones will do in little in terms of growth.

.....

I would love to see more studies on this as well, but I doubt it will happen soon. You picked the perfect reason to try IF... it fits.






Here is Aragons piece on IF.

http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objecti...t-fasting.html

Research Summary

Meal Frequency

. A haphazard/randomly variable meal frequency, not necessarily a lower frequency, negatively impacts thermogenesis, blood lipids, and insulin sensitivity.

. Within a day, a higher frequency has no thermodynamic advantage over a lower frequency under controlled conditions.

. The majority of controlled intervention trials show no improvement in body composition with a higher meal frequency.

. Studies indicating the disappearance or lack of hunger in dieters occur in either complete starvation, or very low calorie VLCD regimes (800 kcal/day or less).

. Hunger is a persistent problem with reduced meal frequency in non-starvation and other protocols with calories above VLCD levels.

. For controlling appetite, the majority of research indicates the superiority of a higher meal frequency.
The body appears to be "metabolically primed" to receive calories and nutrients after an overnight fast. . Breakfast is a particularly beneficial time to have dietary protein, since muscle protein synthethis rates are typically lowest at this time.

. Overall, both experimental and observational research points to breakfast improving memory, test grades, school attendance, nutrient status, weight control, and muscle protein synthesis.

Intermittent Fasting

. Animal research has shown a number of positive health effects of ADF and CR.

. Human ADF research is scarce and less consistent than animal research, showing both benefits (insulin sensitivity is the most consistent outcome) and risks (impaired glucose tolerance in women).

. So far, control groups are absent in all human ADF studies. Thus, no comparative conclusions can be drawn between ADF and linear caloric intake.

. The of the single published controlled trial to date (Stote, et al) comparing 1 versus 3 meals is heavily confounded by an exceptionally high dropout rate in the 1-a-day group, and the use of BIA to measure body composition.

. The 1-a-day group reported increasing hunger levels throughout the length of the trial, echoing the problem of hunger with a reduced meal frequency seen in other similar research.

. Ramadan fasting (12-16 hours per day, sunrise to sunset) decreases daytime alertness, mood, wakefulness, competitive athletic performance, and increases the incidence of traffic accidents. It's difficult to determine the relative contributions of dehydration and a lack of food to these adverse phenomena.

. The effects of exercise and meal frequency on body composition is an interesting but largely unexplored area of research.

Fasting & Exercise

. Improvements in insulin sensitivity, glucose tolerance (except in women undergoing ADF), bodyweight/bodyfat, blood pressure, blood lipids, and heart rate are commonly cited benefits of IF & CR.

. All of the above benefits can be achieved by exercise, minus the downsides of fasting.

. IF and CR have both been found to have neuroprotective effects by increasing BDNF levels.

. A growing body of research shows that exercise can also increase BDNF, and the degree of effect appears to be intensity-dependent.

. Based on the limited available data, resistance training performance, especially if its not particularly voluminous, might not be enhanced by preworkout EAA+CHO.

. Despite equivocal performance effects of pre- or midworkout EAA+CHO, it minimizes muscle damage that occurs from fasted resistance training.

. Immediate preworkout protein and/or EAA+CHO increases protein synthesis more than fasted resistance training with those substrates ingested immediately postworkout.

. It’s possible that a partial fast (as short as 4 hours) before resistance training can negatively impact muscle protein status.

[Marius_Ursus]

Whatever my reasons, I've run two IF cycles because it works.

Why would you do IF anyway? You're skinny as hell in your avatar.

[acrawlingchaos]

Whatever my reasons, I've run two IF cycles because it works.

That's all fine and dandy, but this was a discussion on IF. As such, I thought it a good place to attempt to have intelligent discussions on the matter.

Why would you do IF anyway? You're skinny as hell in your avatar.

Should I make it a point to tell you that you are fat and weak? Do you have absolutely no manners? And what does my stats have to do with the conversation?

Your comment also just proves that you have no clue what you are talking about. Intermittent fasting ISN'T A WEIGHT LOSS DIET. You can bulk on IF, you can cut on IF and you can MAINTAIN on IF. Intermittent fasting is an eating pattern, nothing more.

[Marius_Ursus]

That's all fine and dandy, but this was a discussion on IF. As such, I thought it a good place to attempt to have intelligent discussions on the matter.

Should I make it a point to tell you that you are fat and weak? Do you have absolutely no manners? And what does my stats have to do with the conversation?

Your comment also just proves that you have no clue what you are talking about. Intermittent fasting ISN'T A WEIGHT LOSS DIET. You can bulk on IF, you can cut on IF and you can MAINTAIN on IF. Intermittent fasting is an eating pattern, nothing more.

IF is magic, and the IF fairies are going to be pissed at you for saying that.

[acrawlingchaos]

IF is magic, and the IF fairies are going to be pissed at you for saying that.

Thank you for your contribution to the thread.



EDIT:

Here's a thread you may want to visit.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post983625073

[discdoggie]

Why would you do IF anyway? You're skinny as hell in your avatar.

Lean-ness is chaos' trademark.

I think he looks cute.

[tmonkey]

Lean-ness is chaos' trademark.

I think he looks cute.

I find it odd that people base their opinion of him off a old picture vs. what he has done and what is in his journal.

he lifts a lot more then a lot of the non-skinny *******s

bje = skinny ******* but not acrawlingchaos

[discdoggie]

I find it odd that people base their opinion of him off a old picture vs. what he has done and what is in his journal.

he lifts a lot more then a lot of the non-skinny *******s

bje = skinny ******* but not acrawlingchaos

I don't find anything odd around here anymore.


Everyone says "oh, anyone can diet/starve themselves to get lean." But yet, you never see them get even close.

[highiso]

Well this went down hill quickly.

[acrawlingchaos]

I don't find anything odd around here anymore.


Everyone says "oh, anyone can diet/starve themselves to get lean." But yet, you never see them get even close.

I'll be the first to admit that personal success doesn't guarantee knowledge. It certainly does give one more perspective though. You are right though, many simply don't understand. All of these protocols are great, and the science is fun to play with but the basics still need to be applied... no way around it.


Eat in a deficit, hit your macro nutrient requirements without exceeding your caloric goal, strength train to preserve mass. Meal timing and frequency should be a matter of preference.

Well this went down hill quickly.

Par for the course.

[x-trainer ben]

Be your own Guinea Pig and test yourself for a week or 2! I use this strategy(IF) and it works well for me; however some days you just "Bonk"/ crash depending on when you are doing your training and and the type. Studies are nice..... but they never seem to get done on ME.

[Marius_Ursus]

Thank you for your contribution to the thread.



EDIT:

Here's a thread you may want to visit.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post983625073

No, I don't want to visit that thread. I know why IF works. I know a lot of things that Philistines refuse to recognize.

Go read some more web sites about it.

[Marius_Ursus]

Lean-ness is chaos' trademark.

I think he looks cute.

So is Grover.

What's your point?

[Corbi]

I find it odd that people base their opinion of him off a old picture vs. what he has done and what is in his journal.

he lifts a lot more then a lot of the non-skinny *******s

bje = skinny ******* but not acrawlingchaos

Rep worthy^^^

Well this went down hill quickly.

And you expected differently?

[redcaesar]

Thanks acrawlingchaos for the objective opionions and logical approach. Tried to rep you but all out ;(

Also thanks for the link, I think I had stumbled upon this while ago when I was doing my research but never finished reading it.

I would love to see more studies on this as well, but I doubt it will happen soon. You picked the perfect reason to try IF... it fits.

Here is Aragons piece on IF.
http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objecti...t-fasting.html

Yes I agree best way is to try it out and let us know how it goes. But give it at least 2 weeks because many experience a adjustment period that doesn't feel so good for first week or so as the body adjusts.

Be your own Guinea Pig and test yourself for a week or 2! I use this strategy(IF) and it works well for me; however some days you just "Bonk"/ crash depending on when you are doing your training and and the type. Studies are nice..... but they never seem to get done on ME.

[Corbi]

Lean-ness is chaos' trademark.

I think he looks cute.

So is Grover.

What's your point?

She's saying it was a dick move to be ripping on his avi by basically calling him a skinny fuk. Jeff has been busting his ass and has actually put weight on and his lifts have gone up a metric $hit ton and he can basically say "Fuk Yea" when he gets done with a session on the gym because he didn't half ass it.

[Marius_Ursus]

She's saying it was a dick move to be ripping on his avi by basically calling him a skinny fuk. Jeff has been busting his ass and has actually put weight on and his lifts have gone up a metric $hit ton and he can basically say "Fuk Yea" when he gets done with a session on the gym because he didn't half ass it.

If that's what you took away from the conversation, then good for you.

[Marius_Ursus]

This is the last post I'll make on the topic.

The remark about HGH and the 24-hour fasting study reveals a lack of understanding on how hormones are produced, when they're produced, and the functions that they all play in their in their balancing act. Any information from a scientific study to have any real application to life must be extrapolated and applied to a bigger picture based on a broader base of knowledge.

[discdoggie]

So is Grover.

What's your point?

No point. Just felt like being a pink knight.

[discdoggie]

Actually I do have a point. Judging people by their profile pic is dumb. People can lie, you know.


We had a member here who posted an ass crack pic as her avatar. All the stupid dudes went gaga and her rep power went way up.


O35 detectives did some tinypic sleuthing and turns out it wasn't even her ass (crack). Yep she stole an ass pic from someone off the Internet and passed it off as her own

[acrawlingchaos]

No, I don't want to visit that thread. I know why IF works. I know a lot of things that Philistines refuse to recognize.

Nutrition isn't a religion, it doesn't happen because you believe.[/quote]

Go read some more web sites about it.

I will, and I will post valid research. Something you can't seem to do. I will also continue to be lean, something that you have failed to do.

For someone that's going to make a digs on someones physique, you should be able to do one of the above in a thread about being lean.

This is the last post I'll make on the topic.

The remark about HGH and the 24-hour fasting study reveals a lack of understanding on how hormones are produced, when they're produced, and the functions that they all play in their in their balancing act. Any information from a scientific study to have any real application to life must be extrapolated and applied to a bigger picture based on a broader base of knowledge.

Ah.... the "you're too stupid to understand" response. I actually gave a response to that. What are you expecting the HGH to do? You've been fasted and it only serves to preserve lean mass. You aren't going to increase lean mass on a deficit with dietary controlled fluctuations in hormones.

If you are even trying to recomp on a slight bulk, you already have to be lean. It would take FOREVER to recomp up 40 pounds of fat (years).

Do you even valid research?

[KenJenkinsII]

Despite the fact that ACrawlingChaos doesn't have the same physique as a lot of the guys on here and he can be quite argumentative, if you actually take the time to research what he tells you, you might find that he knows what he is talking about and it would be valuable to listen to him. But I digress, because it is much easier to just dismiss someone and attack them personally. And not do any of your own research or reading.

[Marius_Ursus]

Nutrition isn't a religion, it doesn't happen because you believe.

I will, and I will post valid research. Something you can't seem to do. I will also continue to be lean, something that you have failed to do.

For someone that's going to make a digs on someones physique, you should be able to do one of the above in a thread about being lean.

Ah.... the "you're too stupid to understand" response. I actually gave a response to that. What are you expecting the HGH to do? You've been fasted and it only serves to preserve lean mass. You aren't going to increase lean mass on a deficit with dietary controlled fluctuations in hormones.

If you are even trying to recomp on a slight bulk, you already have to be lean. It would take FOREVER to recomp up 40 pounds of fat (years).

Do you even valid research?

I disagree.

[Marius_Ursus]

Despite the fact that ACrawlingChaos doesn't have the same physique as a lot of the guys on here and he can be quite argumentative, if you actually take the time to research what he tells you, you might find that he knows what he is talking about and it would be valuable to listen to him. But I digress, because it is much easier to just dismiss someone and attack them personally. And not do any of your own research or reading.

OK, I'll do that since you're an expert on what I know.

[Corbi]

This is the last post I'll make on the topic.

I disagree.

Confused now on what the meaning of the word "last" represents?

[KenJenkinsII]

It's amazing how you went from this...

(I asked for some help in planning a bodybuilding routine for the next ~3 months and got some really good advice from everyone who chimed in. Oddly, I'm feeling really nervous about training tonight. It's been years since I did something other than powerlifting systems and general strength training for throwing, and I don't adjust well to new situations.

I don't know what to expect as far as my performance is concerned because I haven't lifted for any type of volume for so long. I don't know how my brain is going to take adjusting to being "weaker" on my accessory lifts since I'll be dedicating training days to body parts (legs/push/pull) instead of spreading my accessory training out across the week (Squat with press and BOR, Bench with front squat and clean...).

It'll be interesting, and I know I'm making a bigger deal out of this than necessary. I just overanalyze everything.

Do you guys ever get nervous about training? Do you have any tricks to deal with it?)

To expert in less than a month.

@RedCeasar, I have been doing IF for the past few months and I have continued to make small gains and I have lost 14 lbs. I hit a small road bump when I miscalculated my maintenance and was not eating at a deficit, but I am back on track now and I believe wholeheartedly that the only reason I am still making gains is because I listened to the people on here who told me to make sure I continued to hit my macros while I was at a deficit like ACrawlingChaos is telling you.

[acrawlingchaos]

OK, I'll do that since you're an expert on what I know.

Then instead of attacking people, why not just share what you know? I'm more than willing to learn from anyone. All I did was disagree and post a rebuttal based on personal experience and cited research.

If you think my progress disqualifies me, I am more than willing to post up my 1 year and 1.5 year progress photos and vids and compare them to your... what... 4 year progress?

[Marius_Ursus]

It's amazing how you went from this...

(I asked for some help in planning a bodybuilding routine for the next ~3 months and got some really good advice from everyone who chimed in. Oddly, I'm feeling really nervous about training tonight. It's been years since I did something other than powerlifting systems and general strength training for throwing, and I don't adjust well to new situations.

I don't know what to expect as far as my performance is concerned because I haven't lifted for any type of volume for so long. I don't know how my brain is going to take adjusting to being "weaker" on my accessory lifts since I'll be dedicating training days to body parts (legs/push/pull) instead of spreading my accessory training out across the week (Squat with press and BOR, Bench with front squat and clean...).

It'll be interesting, and I know I'm making a bigger deal out of this than necessary. I just overanalyze everything.

Do you guys ever get nervous about training? Do you have any tricks to deal with it?)

To expert in less than a month.

Because I've been lifting for over 10 years. I was bodybuilding when I first started lifting, but it's been around 8 years since I took that sort of approach, so I wanted to get some advice on how to shift gears from a powerlifting/throwing mentality to a bodybuilding mentality. It was about my approach to training, not about the training itself.

See, there's a lot about me you don't know for you to go telling me to take advice that is irrelevant to my goals.

Then instead of attacking people, why not just share what you know? I'm more than willing to learn from anyone. All I did was disagree and post a rebuttal based on personal experience and cited research.

If you think my progress disqualifies me, I am more than willing to post up my 1 year and 1.5 year progress photos and vids and compare them to your... what... 4 year progress?

I tried doing that before. I remembered a few hours ago that we had a very similar discussion about volume over time, and I cited Konstantinovs as an example of what a hard gainer can do with low-volume training that spread out over a week. Instead of offering your own solutions to the question at hand, you kept telling me why it couldn't be done or how it was a matter of diet, yet there was nothing forthcoming to explain how a diet can do that with low volume training.

I don't think you're too stupid at all. I think you're rather intelligent. I also think you're rather stubborn and by appearance rely too much on the exact things reported within studies and don't pay enough attention to what happens outside of a laboratory. The information about the laboratory is important of course, but it has to be applied to a much larger body of subject.

[Marius_Ursus]

Confused now on what the meaning of the word "last" represents?

No, you're confused by the word, "topic".

[Corbi]

no, you're confused by the word, "topic".

fuk yea!