Any Over 40's done any intermittent fasting based diets?

[redcaesar]

Hey guys tried a day plus (36hr) fast after eating way over my target Christmas Day. Had big breakfast(first time having breakfast in 3 months), big dinner. I decided to try a 24 hr fast on Boxing Day. Surpisingly I barely felt hungry the entire time and even ended extending it until closer to lunch time today. Going back to lean gains style 16/8 but will definitely try 24 hour fast again.

[acrawlingchaos]

1. Most of what I have read suggests 2-3 meals during the eating window. Would it matter if I "grazed" during the window as long as I hit my cals/macros?

Grazing during the window is fine.

2. What about cheat days? I know about using a refeed day once a week but what about occasionally eating through the fasting window for a day?

"Cheat days" should be avoided. This is what the refeed is for. While many prefer the high carb/low fat refeed, a less strict simple refeed can be done as well. Feeding "outside the feeding window" isn't detrimental.

Now as far as food choices.... I am a big believer in IIFYM. Just hit the macros.

[RetBodyBuilder]

There are so many variations that you're likely to get a bunch of answers (if any)...All I did (and still do but not as religiously) was cram my macros into an 8-hour window.

What I found over time (been about a year since my first turn at IF) is that my hunger hormones adjusted themselves after a few days each time I ate like this, and it really tuned me in to the difference between real hunger and having an appetite. My IF isn't very scientific anymore, but it's still how I eat, only I let true hunger be my guide instead of the clock.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=126107853

[2nd_chance]

"Cheat days" should be avoided. This is what the refeed is for. While many prefer the high carb/low fat refeed, a less strict simple refeed can be done as well. Feeding "outside the feeding window" isn't detrimental.

Now as far as food choices.... I am a big believer in IIFYM. Just hit the macros.

I could be misinterpreting this but the bolded statements seem slightly contradictory, at least from the context of my question. I was defining "cheating" as eating outside the window once a week or so.

[acrawlingchaos]

I could be misinterpreting this but the bolded statements seem slightly contradictory, at least from the context of my question. I was defining "cheating" as eating outside the window once a week or so.

Usually, when people refer to "cheat days" they mean an increase in calories. My apologies for the confusion.

But eating outside the window is completely fine.

[Marius_Ursus]

You guys are making this way too complicated.

[redcaesar]

I fully agree IF makes things a hell of a lot simpler and is very flexible. Body is always transitioning between fasted/fed states and hormone levels are cycling throughout the day so with this realization eating an hour early one day 2 hours late next day , doesn't matter!

You guys are making this way too complicated.

[highiso]

You guys are making this way too complicated.

Truth^

16 hrs fasted, 8 hrs fed, hit your macros, that is all.

[acrawlingchaos]

You guys are making this way too complicated.

Take your calories in when you can. IF has no significant advantage over grazing.

4 hour window,
8 hour window,
2 feedings 12 hours apart

Doesn't matter... consume to your preference. That's all I said. Nothing complicated about it.

Truth^

16 hrs fasted, 8 hrs fed, hit your macros, that is all.

So a 20/4 isn't effective? Your IF will be ruined if some of your calories are consumed outside the window? Absolutes are usually inaccurate.

2nd was asking legit questions.

[2nd_chance]

Take your calories in when you can. IF has no significant advantage over grazing.

Seems that guys like Martin Berkhan think there is more to it.

[acrawlingchaos]

Seems that guys like Martin Berkhan think there is more to it.

There are probably just as many proponents out there for grazing patterns as well. Lyle McDonald believes that protein should be taken at least 2 or 3 times a day, and isn't a strong advocate of IF. Then you have Aragon who believe that timing probably doesn't make that much of a difference at all.

There have been many successful individuals who have used both meals patterns, and the science is inconclusive and often in conflict. In this matter, I don't think forcing yourself into an eating pattern you don't care for will be productive.

[yettiatcpg]

I don't know if I can offer much useful advice here. I get so many points of non compliance in my diet its sickening. to many attempts to abstain from high calorie items put out at work as "treats" tends to undermine me at every turn. the holidays are the worst.
I normally pack a lunch and hand carry all my food. some days guys will offer to go out and eat pizza or Chinese food. I have no will power there. only eat the staples out of my lunch at that point to make up any protein loss. on the weekends when I'm home I manage way better. I can go all day on practically nothing. just coffee and a bite here and there. when I was off work a few months I was very restricted by the fact I had to be served by my wife. it was easy to comply at the time and the stuff she made was taking pounds off my even with no exercise at all. it has everything to do with eating only good food at that point. no junk at all.
one trick I learned from a buddy was when he was in the Marines. he said they always carried gummy bears. one pack is enough carbs to get you through a whole day of marching. he said the fact they came in the rations is a striking fact that the military knows the benefits of s high carb snack.

[highiso]

Fasting over 16 hours is fine. I've done 24 many times. Mostly in the summer when I know I'm going to a party. I've drank and eaten 3,000 calories in less than 4 hours on some of those occasions.

My average protein intake on a normal day after my fasted workout is about 50g per meal spread over 4 meals.

I have lunch, dinner, after dinner snack & bedtime snack. I'm used to eating a lot of the same foods. Greek yogurt, chicken, turkey, eggs, whey, sweet potatoes, brown rice, bananas, peanut butter, almonds, veggies, milk & bread. (Bread is few and far between from June-August)

I guess since this has become a lifestyle for me it's just second nature. I don't even think about it anymore but I do track my nutrients very, very closely during the summer.

[2nd_chance]

Fasting over 16 hours is fine. I've done 24 many times.

I've fasted for 14 days several times. I wasn't lifting during that period of time in my life though. But my point is that fasting is easy once you set your mind to it.

[highiso]

I've fasted for 14 days several times. I wasn't lifting during that period of time in my life though. But my point is that fasting is easy once you set your mind to it.

Yes it is. That said, I wouldn't be able to do it without my morning coffee though.

[acrawlingchaos]

I've fasted for 14 days several times. I wasn't lifting during that period of time in my life though. But my point is that fasting is easy once you set your mind to it.

This is probably the biggest selling point of IF, satiety.

Personally, I IF when I am leaning out and tend to graze more when my intake is higher (much larger feeding window).

[Georgeoz]

As one ages, the killer abdominal fat accumulates. You can do endless crunches (I do 100 every day), cardio until you fall off the bike/rower etc (I do) and the fat goes elsewhere and the inner organ fat hangs on. We know this fat has alife of its own, makes bad things by itself (estrogen for one). What to do? Anyone over 70 who has worked this one out, please tell me.

Anyway, yesterday, and with the excesses of Xmas a stern reproach, I ate nothing from the night before until this morning - about 36 hrs. And drank no wine. And lived on green tea. I was apprehensive this would be an ordeal. Not so. I now feel incredibly refreshed, and the scales said less than 80kg.

So I think this may work. My physician and his wife have been doing the Saturday fast for some time now and it was he who recommended it. I am resolved to do intermittent fasting every Saturday from now on, and I am nearly 78. So I won't hurt you if you are even quite old.

G

[wrhalljr]

I have never tried it but I think in the next few months I will try a Saturday or Sunday fast once a week...need to change something up and this seems like something different that I may benefit from...

[Marius_Ursus]

Seems that guys like Martin Berkhan think there is more to it.

Yes, there is more to it, but you don't need to worry about the minute details. To maximize everything, you'd need to worry about specific HGH-boosting supplements and foods and take hourly blood tests to check your balance of T, HGH, leptin, and ghrellin. It's completely effective to think in general terms with this and just limit your intake to a set window that eventually you can expand beyond when you have your true hunger hormonal fluctuations honed in.

Last time I checked Berkhan was stuck on the insulin sensitivity factor anyway, so I wouldn't pay much attention to his "science".

[fkjr2]

Just turned 40 and have been doing the LG's I Fasting for 6 months - love it

[fkjr2]

Question - I have been doing AM lifts and then fasting until late in the day due to my schedule, would it be most effective to lift say at 4-5 pm and then break the fast? (I know lean gains approach states this scenario but my life schedule doesn't always allow it) - also called "back carb loading"

Also - would it be ok to incorporate LISS treadmill in the AM and then break the fast late in the day with the above Lift alternate days in the PM as mentioned above?

[ugaman94]

I think one thing missing from this (great) thread is that feedback is being given, without regard to goals. I have done 24 hour fasts twice a week for a little over a year now, and there is no doubt that for *fat loss* - it works. I probably lost 30 lbs doing it, and have kept it off. But that was my goal, fat loss without losing what mass I do still have. Sounds like some of you are more real body builder types who go through bulking phases and things like that. I have no clue as to how it would work for those goals.

My question for those knowledgable -- I've only done the 24 hr fasts, never tried the 16/8 but could see myself easily doing that. Any opinions on combining the two, in the form of only one 24 hr fast a week, and then a 16/8 principle the other 6 days? Any thoughts as to if that would be more, or less, productive than the 2 24s each week?

[acrawlingchaos]

Yes, there is more to it, but you don't need to worry about the minute details. To maximize everything, you'd need to worry about specific HGH-boosting supplements and foods and take hourly blood tests to check your balance of T, HGH, leptin, and ghrellin. It's completely effective to think in general terms with this and just limit your intake to a set window that eventually you can expand beyond when you have your true hunger hormonal fluctuations honed in.

Last time I checked Berkhan was stuck on the insulin sensitivity factor anyway, so I wouldn't pay much attention to his "science".

Worrying about the minute details is how we learn. What exactly makes IF better for anything? Berkham doesn't recommend countless blood tests, and I am assuming he doesn't suggest they are necessary.

Seriously, what is the benefit of intermittent fasting?

[highiso]

Worrying about the minute details is how we learn. What exactly makes IF better for anything? Berkham doesn't recommend countless blood tests, and I am assuming he doesn't suggest they are necessary.

Seriously, what is the benefit of intermittent fasting?

You'd have to do it to understand. It's worked for me, I swear by it.

[acrawlingchaos]

You'd have to do it to understand. It's worked for me, I swear by it.

Hmm, not sure what you are implying.



I am a fan of intermittent fasting myself. I typically eat in an 8 hour window. There are no benefits past preference. Giving someone the notion that it is more effective than other eating pattern without willing to submit valid research or at least a reason why it is more effective is unfair and misleading to those that may want to try it.

If there are real statistically significant and relevant reasons to choose IF over grazing (past preference), I am interested in seeing the evidence.

[highiso]

Hmm, not sure what you are implying.



I am a fan of intermittent fasting myself. I typically eat in an 8 hour window. There are no benefits past preference. Giving someone the notion that it is more effective than other eating pattern without willing to submit valid research or at least a reason why it is more effective is unfair and misleading to those that may want to try it.

If there are real statistically significant and relevant reasons to choose IF over grazing (past preference), I am interested in seeing the evidence.

I believe there have been studies done. I found out about IF on leangains.com 2 years ago, since then I've not kept up on any research. I just know it works for me. I've tried every other diet, keto, low carb, eating every 3 hours, yada yada, IF has worked the best for me.

To each their own. People need to experiment and find out what works for them.

[acrawlingchaos]

I believe there have been studies done. I found out about IF on leangains.com 2 years ago, since then I've not kept up on any research. I just know it works for me. I've tried every other diet, keto, low carb, eating every 3 hours, yada yada, IF has worked the best for me.

To each their own. People need to experiment and find out what works for them.

When did you start counting calories and macros?

[highiso]

When did you start counting calories and macros?

About 6 months into my transformation, i believe it was July of 2010 when I got my iPhone, used the Loseit app. Im pretty sure I started IF shortly into 2011.

[Marius_Ursus]

Worrying about the minute details is how we learn. What exactly makes IF better for anything? Berkham doesn't recommend countless blood tests, and I am assuming he doesn't suggest they are necessary.

Seriously, what is the benefit of intermittent fasting?

Increased HGH output is the primary one.

[redcaesar]

Acrawlingchaos I see where your going with this. Lean Gains, Eat-Stop-Eat or any other IF protocol has not been tested and proven with specifics of its protocol whilst keeping all other factors equal and with full control groups. We only see partial studies that do only portion of a protocol and does not do proper controls etc... They then theorize to fill in the gaps. Also with peoples experience with IF, it is often started at same time as other changes in diet, exercise, etc so hard to account for effects of IF.

In my experience as well I started new weight program, and calorie restricted diet and fasted training and IF all pretty much same time. Results have been great but who's to say that IF is key or even major contributor to results?

For me it was a major paradigm shift just too see some of the myths debunked of Martin because I was spending a lot of time and energy, and eating more calories trying to get in a healthy high protein breakfast thinking that if I missed the "Most Important meal of the day" my body would start to cannibalize itself and eat away any muscle I had worked to grow....

It was a profound realization that grazing, eating many small frequent meals, not eating after 8pm, eating biggest meal earlier in the day, all rules which I thought to be stead fast, are not. If fact I now believe them all to be bull!

I find that eating IF leangains way works for me well because of schedule of work, home life, and training. I feel that I may have benefited from some of the theorized pluses of IF with increased energy, focus, better recovery, and increased fat loss, but because this was only 1 of many changes there is no real way to tell if it is indeed IF or other changes that contributing to these results. I find IF so much easier and less stressful because I'm not having to worry about food for most of my day. I find it easier to abstain from bad food, when in fasting mode and easier to track my calories as I'm only have to calculate for 2 meals day rather than 5 or 6.

I would love to see a double blind studies comparing a hand full of these protocols that includes strength training but I'm sure there will be no company standing up to fund this study as there is no money to be made from it. If no drugs, supplements, or specialty food is being sold I think it would be hard to get such an involved, expensive study done.

I've now tried a longer 24h+ fast as well and may start to mix those into my week with the lean gains 16/8. I was surprised and still am surprised how little I feel hungry through out the days. It comes and passes quickly especially when I'm keeping active. I think IF is great cause it works for me and I don't see any negative effects and even if it is not positively helping in the other ways claimed, it makes may day simpler, and my life simpler.

Hmm, not sure what you are implying.
I am a fan of intermittent fasting myself. I typically eat in an 8 hour window. There are no benefits past preference. Giving someone the notion that it is more effective than other eating pattern without willing to submit valid research or at least a reason why it is more effective is unfair and misleading to those that may want to try it.

If there are real statistically significant and relevant reasons to choose IF over grazing (past preference), I am interested in seeing the evidence.