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  1. #121
    Banned Oceanside's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus View Post
    Because I've been lifting for over 10 years. I was bodybuilding when I first started lifting, but it's been around 8 years since I took that sort of approach, so I wanted to get some advice on how to shift gears from a powerlifting/throwing mentality to a bodybuilding mentality. It was about my approach to training, not about the training itself.

    don't insult the intelligence of regulars here that know your b*ll****ting here son....


    we've seen your vids and most with any kind of experience will agree.....you have NEXT TO NO EXPERIENCE in the weight room..


    sell your little fantasy somewhere else
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  2. #122
    Kettlebear Marius_Ursus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oceanside View Post
    don't insult the intelligence of regulars here that know your b*ll****ting here son....


    we've seen your vids and most with any kind of experience will agree.....you have NEXT TO NO EXPERIENCE in the weight room..


    sell your little fantasy somewhere else
    And like the other members of the hen house, you can gossip all you want in PM or over the phone or whatever. I know the path I've walked. You don't.

    It makes me feel good to know that you spend enough time thinking about me to talk about me behind my back. I, on the other hand, never give you a second a thought until you spout off more of your irrelevant observations related to something I've posted.

    You right about one thing. I started when my daughter was two, so it's been nearly 15 years.
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  3. #123
    Registered User ugaman94's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Intermittent fasting ISN'T A WEIGHT LOSS DIET.
    I lost 30 lbs doing it, over approx 12 months.
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  4. #124
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus View Post
    I know the path I've walked. You don't.
    And you know, what... exactly about me when you insulted me over a discussion? You don't find yourself being.... a tad bit hypocritical?
    GFY
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  5. #125
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ugaman94 View Post
    I lost 30 lbs doing it, over approx 12 months.
    I lost 25 pounds in 12 weeks with intermittent fasting. What's your point?
    GFY
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  6. #126
    Kettlebear Marius_Ursus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    And you know, what... exactly about me when you insulted me over a discussion? You don't find yourself being.... a tad bit hypocritical?
    Yes, you're right, and I sincerely apologize. I actually didn't mean it as an insult, but it did come off sounding brusque.

    Corbi should love this because I'm going to post back on topic now...

    In a nutshell, I've run IF twice. The first time was two years ago doing 5/3/1 and performing conditioning of sprinting, plyos, or ladder/hanger/other rugby exercises for 15 minutes following my weight lifting. I didn't count calories. I ate a lot of ice cream and junk food, and the IF was an experiment just to see what effect would take place. I did make sure I ate at least 150 grams of protein daily, but it was usually closer to 180 grams at 198 pounds.

    Over the course of 8 weeks I lost 12 pounds.

    The second time I ran it was a few months ago. I was doing Easy Strength, and instead of the sprints, etc. (because I train at night now and have nowhere to run when it's dark) I got my "conditioning" in with high-volume KB swings. In this cycle, my weight remained constant, but my body composition improved in that I could see new outlines of muscle across my shoulders and upper chest. Again, I didn't mind my diet all that closely, only worrying that I ate plenty of protein and letting the other macros "take care of themselves".

    As far as the HGH goes, the study you referenced was for fasting over 24 hours, right? I remember that study if it's the same one I'm thinking of. Thing about hormones is that they don't just turn on and off according to how many hours you've been doing a particular activity. I don't think it's been studied, but doesn't it make more sense that HGH is going to be elevated against a baseline after any period of not eating? As Ghrellin cycles fluctuate, it makes sense that HGH would increase and decrease as the warning signals against starvation also fluctuate. Then as Leptin is introduced post eating, the other hormones would necessarily taper off over time as the balance is maintained.

    EDIT - I think just for context I should also point out that my current goals are to stay within the 198 weight class, not to get lean.
    Last edited by Marius_Ursus; 01-03-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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  7. #127
    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Dammit, now I need to go look up "brusque".
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  8. #128
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Intermittent fasting ISN'T A WEIGHT LOSS DIET. You can bulk on IF, you can cut on IF and you can MAINTAIN on IF. Intermittent fasting is an eating pattern, nothing more.
    OP^^^

    Originally Posted by discdoggie View Post
    it wasn't even her ass (crack). Yep she stole an ass
    IF tips and stolen ass cracks ITT. Not disappointed.
    What if every day was beautiful and you did not realize it?

    *Elastic waist pants can be sexy too crew*
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  9. #129
    Registered User ugaman94's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I lost 25 pounds in 12 weeks with intermittent fasting. What's your point?
    As referenced in the quote, was just super confused as to (your) statement that it wasn't for weight loss. Maybe I just misread it, since I see now that you too lost weight, with IF
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  10. #130
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    Dammit, now I need to go look up "brusque".
    It's a Lobster stew, quite delicious.
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  11. #131
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Eat in a deficit, hit your macro nutrient requirements without exceeding your caloric goal, strength train to preserve mass. Meal timing and frequency should be a matter of preference.
    Far, far too simple! How can anyone make any money here selling "advices" if ^^^^ this is all there is to it?




























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  12. #132
    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    I'm planning on trying this mainly for the purposes of appetite control. I've been eating small meals every 2 or 3 hours for years now. I can bulk or cut like this, but cutting is difficult when I'm hungry all the time. It's hard to even eat at maintenance, since I always want more. Hopefully it will be easier to stick to a lower calorie diet with IF.

    For people who've tried it successfully, how long did it take to get used to fasting 16 hours a day? How much strength and endurance was lost in the short term if you started training in a fasted state? I normally lift around lunchtime, but I could switch to late afternoons if it's too hard to get a full workout without carbs beforehand.
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  13. #133
    Kettlebear Marius_Ursus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    I'm planning on trying this mainly for the purposes of appetite control. I've been eating small meals every 2 or 3 hours for years now. I can bulk or cut like this, but cutting is difficult when I'm hungry all the time. It's hard to even eat at maintenance, since I always want more. Hopefully it will be easier to stick to a lower calorie diet with IF.

    For people who've tried it successfully, how long did it take to get used to fasting 16 hours a day? How much strength and endurance was lost in the short term if you started training in a fasted state? I normally lift around lunchtime, but I could switch to late afternoons if it's too hard to get a full workout without carbs beforehand.
    During both of my runs with it, it took about three days for my hunger cycles to normalize, and that's about when I queued in to the difference between having an appetite and real hunger.

    I never lost any strength or endurance. I stayed fueled, just in a compressed window. On my first cycle I was training first thing in the morning with a cup of coffee in my stomach and nothing else until Noon. The last time I cycled IF I was lifting at night, and my eating window started at 2:00 PM, so I wasn't training fasted.

    As I said, I lost no strength and actually saw all my lifts climb as I continued training.
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  14. #134
    The Jesus Crew 2nd_chance's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    I'm planning on trying this mainly for the purposes of appetite control. I've been eating small meals every 2 or 3 hours for years now. I can bulk or cut like this, but cutting is difficult when I'm hungry all the time. It's hard to even eat at maintenance, since I always want more. Hopefully it will be easier to stick to a lower calorie diet with IF.

    For people who've tried it successfully, how long did it take to get used to fasting 16 hours a day? How much strength and endurance was lost in the short term if you started training in a fasted state? I normally lift around lunchtime, but I could switch to late afternoons if it's too hard to get a full workout without carbs beforehand.
    That's the thing... eating every 2-3 hours conditions you to be hungry all the time. IF breaks the mental/psychological hunger that occurs with that feeding pattern. My experience with IF is that I almost have to remind myself that it's time to eat.
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  15. #135
    Registered User ugaman94's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    For people who've tried it successfully, how long did it take to get used to fasting 16 hours a day? How much strength and endurance was lost in the short term if you started training in a fasted state? I normally lift around lunchtime, but I could switch to late afternoons if it's too hard to get a full workout without carbs beforehand.
    I do 24 hr fasts, have never done 16. But it didn't take me anytime to get used to it. Just keep water/tea around, and its really no problem. Stomach starts to grumble some, just ignore it. Will pass after a couple of minutes.
    As to lifting, I don't like to do during the fasts, but I have. Do you hit a wall a little sooner on those days? Yeah probably. And same is probably more true of cardio. But sure do burn a lot of calories.
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  16. #136
    Registered User ugaman94's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    My experience with IF is that I almost have to remind myself that it's time to eat.
    Ditto
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  17. #137
    198 or bust Getsum's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Eat in a deficit, hit your macro nutrient requirements without exceeding your caloric goal, strength train to preserve mass. Meal timing and frequency should be a matter of preference.
    Pretty simple really.

    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Far, far too simple! How can anyone make any money here selling "advices" if ^^^^ this is all there is to it?
    It's all in the packaging really, take a close look at any of the mainstream prepackaged meal plans. Companies are making a fortune on these type programs.

    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    That's the thing... eating every 2-3 hours conditions you to be hungry all the time. IF breaks the mental/psychological hunger that occurs with that feeding pattern. My experience with IF is that I almost have to remind myself that it's time to eat.
    Hmm, very interesting indeed.
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  18. #138
    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    That's the thing... eating every 2-3 hours conditions you to be hungry all the time. IF breaks the mental/psychological hunger that occurs with that feeding pattern. My experience with IF is that I almost have to remind myself that it's time to eat.
    I got to the point where I couldn't sleep through the night without eating something. I'd wake up after 3 hours and stay awake until I had a snack or at least a protein shake. I've been stretching out the times between meals over the last few weeks, which seems to help. I just need to make the leap to the 16 hour fast every day.

    I agree that cutting is simple. Just get the right macros and the right number of calories every day, and the fat comes off. Simple doesn't always mean easy. I'm hoping IF makes it easier for me to stick to the right number of calories without going over.
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  19. #139
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    I'm planning on trying this mainly for the purposes of appetite control. I've been eating small meals every 2 or 3 hours for years now. I can bulk or cut like this, but cutting is difficult when I'm hungry all the time. It's hard to even eat at maintenance, since I always want more. Hopefully it will be easier to stick to a lower calorie diet with IF.

    For people who've tried it successfully, how long did it take to get used to fasting 16 hours a day? How much strength and endurance was lost in the short term if you started training in a fasted state? I normally lift around lunchtime, but I could switch to late afternoons if it's too hard to get a full workout without carbs beforehand.
    I follow an IF pattern because it how I always ate. So for me, this was a no brainer. It isn't as radical as you think. Skip breakfast, light lunch, big dinner. The amount of strength you lose is going to be proportional to your deficit. Some people feel more alert, others... not so much. I would say give it an honest 4 week try. If it fits... stick with it.

    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Far, far too simple! How can anyone make any money here selling "advices" if ^^^^ this is all there is to it?


    Paypal me $20 and I'll sell you the real secret.

    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    My experience with IF is that I almost have to remind myself that it's time to eat.
    I find that the more often I "forget", the less hungry I become.

    Originally Posted by ugaman94 View Post
    As referenced in the quote, was just super confused as to (your) statement that it wasn't for weight loss. Maybe I just misread it, since I see now that you too lost weight, with IF
    It's because you can still get fat or put on weight with an IF protocol. Simply eat in a surplus. IF in an of itself is just an eating pattern. Whether you take weight on or off is going to be dependent on intake vs. output.

    I lost weight on IF because I diligently tracked my macros and intake and made sure to eat in a deficit everyday, not because I skipped breakfast.
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I follow an IF pattern because it how I always ate. So for me, this was a no brainer. It isn't as radical as you think.
    I think that this is where the disconnect is that you are having with some other posters. Many have been lifting for years and have had the eat every 2-3 hours ingrained in them like a religion, so for them it is radical. For you it's not. I think you just need to appreciate the big change that it is for some folks on here. By the way, great job with your results in the kitchen and in the gym.
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  21. #141
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    I think that this is where the disconnect is that you are having with some other posters. Many have been lifting for years and have had the eat every 2-3 hours ingrained in them like a religion, so for them it is radical. For you it's not. I think you just need to appreciate the big change that it is for some folks on here. By the way, great job with your results in the kitchen and in the gym.
    I absolutely agree. I tried the grazing pattern and it never seemed natural to me. You are diligent with your diet, so you know where the majority of the progress comes from. I think IF is great, and a lot of people could really benefit from being free of some of the myths about meal timing. However, I see a trend towards a cult following with intermittent fasting. While I am a BIG fan of IF, I don't want to see it being made into some miracle program that it really isn't.

    There are definite benefits and cons to both eating patterns. The point I am trying to make, is people are failing to see the forest through all the trees. If intermittent fasting "works" for someone, it's going to be because you were able to better manage your macros with it (whether intuitively or with counting).


    And thanks for the compliment. I'm a big fan of some of the more advanced protocols. They're interesting to play with and deserve attention sure. Personally, I want to get sub 7% and utilize a lean gains approach myself... which will take a lot of attention to detail with macro management.
    Last edited by acrawlingchaos; 01-03-2013 at 11:34 PM.
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  22. #142
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Paypal me $20 and I'll sell you the real secret.
    I'd laugh if it weren't for the notion that this goes on much more on this site than anyone really realizes.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  23. #143
    Da1UnV bodyhard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Far, far too simple! How can anyone make any money here selling "advices" if ^^^^ this is all there is to it?
    It is simple, you simply have to "look" like you know what you are doing.

    There are a lot of people on this site that know their sh!t but simply don't look "that" good so they are not taken seriously.

    I don't know much about nutrition, after I put on as much size as I can I am turning to AC to help me cut down the BF, (if I put on too much) why? Because I don't know enough about nutrition to get the best bang for my buck. But if you look at me and look at AC some people would ask, but why would you take advice from him?
    It's difficult to stand out if you're too busy trying to fit in. ~

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  24. #144
    AWOL highiso's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    It is simple, you simply have to "look" like you know what you are doing.

    There are a lot of people on this site that know their sh!t but simply don't look "that" good so they are not taken seriously.

    I don't know much about nutrition, after I put on as much size as I can I am turning to AC to help me cut down the BF, (if I put on too much) why? Because I don't know enough about nutrition to get the best bang for my buck. But if you look at me and look at AC some people would ask, but why would you take advice from him?
    Sorry bro. You spend to much time in band camp to know anything bout nutrition or bodybuilding. No ones gonna ask you chit. Srs.















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  25. #145
    Da1UnV bodyhard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by highiso View Post
    Sorry bro. You spend to much time in band camp to know anything bout nutrition or bodybuilding. No ones gonna ask you chit. Srs.















    On the contrary you don't get any respect here unless you have been banned several times

    It's difficult to stand out if you're too busy trying to fit in. ~

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  26. #146
    Cutting since 10/20/2014 Brackneyc's Avatar
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    I've eaten both ways for extended periods of time (a year or better on IF). I noticed zero difference in loss/gain or maint as long as I kept the overall macros/cals consistent. As a diabetic, meal timing (if medicated) IS a huge deal. I no longer take meds, so for me, no big deal.

    Srsly, taking all of the BS out of it, if you can avoid over-eating at the end of the day, and you are not hungry during the day, IF is fine. If you cannot manage being hungry, IF may be a recipe for overeating when it IS time to eat. If you are a chronic under eater, again, IF may not be for you.

    Srsly IF is not a new concept at all. Giving it a fancy name allows people to write/sell books on a subject that has been around longer than any of us.
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  27. #147
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    It is simple, you simply have to "look" like you know what you are doing.

    There are a lot of people on this site that know their sh!t but simply don't look "that" good so they are not taken seriously.

    I don't know much about nutrition, after I put on as much size as I can I am turning to AC to help me cut down the BF, (if I put on too much) why? Because I don't know enough about nutrition to get the best bang for my buck. But if you look at me and look at AC some people would ask, but why would you take advice from him?
    The "avi/no avi/bad-looking avi" topic will always be a bone of contention in any bodybuilding forum. As far as whom to take advice from, I don't have an answer for that question. I wish I did; it would greatly simplify things for beginners posting here.

    The only thing I can offer is a counterpoint; some of the most-respected authorities in bodybuilding nutrition don't look overly muscular, yet their clients look great and/or they're well-respected in the bodybuilding community. A few such examples would be Lyle McDonald, Jamie Hale (he's ripped to shreds, but in street clothes, is small of stature), and Haney Rambod.



    FWIW, I think working with AC is a great idea. His nutrition advices are spot-on.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  28. #148
    Cutting since 10/20/2014 Brackneyc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post

    The only thing I can offer is a counterpoint; some of the most-respected authorities in bodybuilding nutrition don't look overly muscular, yet their clients look great and/or they're well-respected in the bodybuilding community. A few such examples would be Lyle McDonald, Jamie Hale (he's ripped to shreds, but in street clothes, is small of stature), and Haney Rambod.



    FWIW, I think working with AC is a great idea. His nutrition advices are spot-on.
    Most of those guys (or some anyway) are well out of the price range most can/will spend for their advices. Beyond a great reputation for success which can be seen in "other" people, all a person really has to base their opinion on is....looks.
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  29. #149
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    Well after being totally against IF and rationalizing how there could be any benefit to IF I started 16/8 on January 2 (fasting from 9pm until 1pm)...started with a 24 hour fast on the 1st...I guess really it is to change something up as I have been 6 meals a day for over a year with good results, however as monotonous as it was getting I wanted to try something different...IF seemed a good thing to try for a few reasons...one was a change but I guess the main one is to either prove myself right that your metabolism is going to slow way down if you are not putting nutrients in through timed intervals, or wrong that there is a benefit to IF, Lean Gains, Warrior diet, etc (besides convenience because if you are serious about training I think convenience should be an afterthought and you will find a way to do it convenient or not!)...I have always disagreed with many that macros are macros and the times they are taken in do not matter because I don't feel your metabolic or digestive system works that way, but I will find out in time I am sure...
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  30. #150
    Cutting since 10/20/2014 Brackneyc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wrhalljr View Post
    Well after being totally against IF and rationalizing how there could be any benefit to IF I started 16/8 on January 2 (fasting from 9pm until 1pm)...started with a 24 hour fast on the 1st...I guess really it is to change something up as I have been 6 meals a day for over a year with good results, however as monotonous as it was getting I wanted to try something different...IF seemed a good thing to try for a few reasons...one was a change but I guess the main one is to either prove myself right that your metabolism is going to slow way down if you are not putting nutrients in through timed intervals, or wrong that there is a benefit to IF, Lean Gains, Warrior diet, etc (besides convenience because if you are serious about training I think convenience should be an afterthought and you will find a way to do it convenient or not!)...I have always disagreed with many that macros are macros and the times they are taken in do not matter because I don't feel your metabolic or digestive system works that way, but I will find out in time I am sure...

    There are several respected (and famous outside of BB.com/OV35) members who are firmly in one camp, or the other. IME, I saw no appreciable difference between the two. But, I remain fat, so my opinion on the matter is moot anyway.
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