Calling Out Miacanesfan25.

[JasonDB]

Ok bro... so you know I am very liberal and even oppossed the Iraqi war when we declared it etc... but I also feel very strongly about taking care of veterans whom have served and risked their lives weather I agree with the particular conflict or not. By taking care of I mean full medical care with good doctors to treat them, proper therapy for any PTSD they are suffering, iniatives to get them good jobs when they get home, free higher education, disability benefits, pensions etc. I don't think we currently expend enough resources towards this.

As a solution I would like to propose a law and I would love to get your thoughts on it as I think it would solve this problem... I'd like to call it "The Wounded Warrior Fairness Act". Basically it would apply towards any US veteran who earned a purple heart in any conflict. What it would be is a get out of jail free card in a specific situation for anyone who earned a Purple Heart in which they are allowed to take one free shot at any politcian of any branch of government who voted in favour of the conflict they are wounded in, but whose vote on other matters/bills/laws blocked improvements in veterans benefits, budgets towards those ends or who signed any laws that **** directly on veterans. They would only be allowed this once, per Purple Heart earned, and it regardless of the outcome (a miss, a wound, a fatality etc) would be freed of all charges resulting from this shot fired. The way I see they took a bullet for that politician and since he/she was not willing to figuratively do so for them, they should do literally. How is that for a fair ****ing deal?

What do you think of this idea? I think this law would very quickly solve the issues with the VA, GI Bills and the general welfare of our veterans.

[miacanesfan25]

My very first call out thread, I'm honored! Lemme finish making my daughter breakfast and I delve into this a little more.

I think it's a fantastic idea. We have pretty decent benefits through VA when we get out. My issue is that the government is very stingy with what they call a disability. And even when they do give it they rate the severity of the injury and the amount of benefits you get based on a percentage which is bs because it's never what it should be.

The new post 9/11 GI bill is pretty good and we can ever share it with spouses and kids so I'm good with that. Frankly, I'd almost rather be able to take a shot at some of the crappy former leaders I've had. As I'm in the army longer and longer and am getting more and more troops under me I'm learning what a good and bad leader is and I make it a point to not be like some of the crappy ones I've had.

Like you I don't agree with either war. I think we should only be out of country for humanitarian work unless we come under direct attack. The sad thing is a lot of the politicians you speak of are war veterans, they're just so out old and out of touch they have no idea what's going on. Same problem with some of the senior leadership still serving.

I think there should be more term limits on politicians and their pay should be decreased to no more than what we make. I also think they shouldn't continue to get pay once try are no longer in public service. I can deal with pensions or retirement or whatever but Obama for instance still gets a paycheck for being president for te rest of his life. When I get out I'll get a few months of crappy unemployment.

[mattypoole]

I predict conservatives will love this law until it's used against a conservative politician, in which case it will suddenly be labelled terrorism by an over paid coke head.

[JasonDB]

My very first call out thread, I'm honored! Lemme finish making my daughter breakfast and I delve into this a little more.

I think it's a fantastic idea. We have pretty decent benefits through VA when we get out. My issue is that the government is very stingy with what they call a disability. And even when they do give it they rate the severity of the injury and the amount of benefits you get based on a percentage which is bs because it's never what it should be.

The new post 9/11 GI bill is pretty good and we can ever share it with spouses and kids so I'm good with that. Frankly, I'd almost rather be able to take a shot at some of the crappy former leaders I've had. As I'm in the army longer and longer and am getting more and more troops under me I'm learning what a good and bad leader is and I make it a point to not be like some of the crappy ones I've had.

Like you I don't agree with either war. I think we should only be out of country for humanitarian work unless we come under direct attack. The sad thing is a lot of the politicians you speak of are war veterans, they're just so out old and out of touch they have no idea what's going on. Same problem with some of the senior leadership still serving.

I think there should be more term limits on politicians and their pay should be decreased to no more than what we make. I also think they shouldn't continue to get pay once try are no longer in public service. I can deal with pensions or retirement or whatever but Obama for instance still gets a paycheck for being president for te rest of his life. When I get out I'll get a few months of crappy unemployment.

I have friend back in the states dealing with that "30% disability bull****" with a broken lumbar (still able to walk) which causes pain every day. I agree very much on term limits and reasonale pensions for those who retire... why not just give them social security like the rest of us get? Their income would land them easily twice or thrice what most of us get.

I predict conservatives will love this law until it's used against a conservative politician, in which case it will suddenly be labelled terrorism by an over paid coke head.

Of course.

[psychodiver9]

I approve this message

[FitnessCPA]

So basically for every wounded soldier, there is a wounded/dead politician? Hah.

LOL, the U.S. would never go into a conflict again. So if that's your goal, it would work. But in that case, the demand for military service would drop substantially and we'd be turning down people who want to join the military.

[JasonDB]

So basically for every wounded soldier, there is a wounded/dead politician? Hah.

LOL, the U.S. would never go into a conflict again. So if that's your goal, it would work. But in that case, the demand for military service would drop substantially and we'd be turning down people who want to join the military.

No only politicians who both voted for the conflict and who did not want to give veterans benefits or take care of them properly would be at risk. It would of course make them rethink the conflicts before jumping in... but it would also greatly reduce any tendancy for the warhawks to not take proper care of the veterans or well... their stay in office would be short lived. Basically if you treat your citizens and soldiers like pawns, willing to risk their lives, but not do **** for them if they survive... you probably should die at their hands. Freedom, and government for and of the people, at its finest.

[desslok]

I would just like to see the looks on their faces when they see a car pull up to a meeting with a purple heart license plate.

"The busboy's coming! The busboy's coming!"

[miacanesfan25]

There will always be a demand for military service as long they continue giving a paycheck and paying for school. I have a lot of friends in recruiting telling me they constantly turn kids away who don't meet the standards (which are pretty low these days) that just want to come in for the benefits but don't want to deploy or work a job based on the needs of the army.

[FitnessCPA]

No only politicians who both voted for the conflict and who did not want to give veterans benefits or take care of them properly would be at risk. It would of course make them rethink the conflicts before jumping in... but it would also greatly reduce any tendancy for the warhawks to not take proper care of the veterans or well... their stay in office would be short lived. Basically if you treat your citizens and soldiers like pawns, willing to risk their lives, but not do **** for them if they survive... you probably should die at their hands. Freedom, and government for and of the people, at its finest.

Got it. Seems fair to this conservative.

When you say care for them, I assume you're not talking about them getting free care for a doctor's visit for the flu 30 years down the road, right?

[psychodiver9]

Got it. Seems fair to this conservative.

When you say care for them, I assume you're not talking about them getting free care for a doctor's visit for the flu 30 years down the road, right?

Why not? Someone who serves in combat should have health care for life

[FitnessCPA]

There will always be a demand for military service as long they continue giving a paycheck and paying for school. I have a lot of friends in recruiting telling me they constantly turn kids away who don't meet the standards (which are pretty low these days) that just want to come in for the benefits but don't want to deploy or work a job based on the needs of the army.

No, what I was saying was there wouldn't be a demand for their service. The military wouldn't need any additional people to serve.

[FitnessCPA]

Why not? Someone who serves in combat should have health care for life

I disagree. If they smoke two packs a day and get lung cancer, that shouldn't be our problem.

[miacanesfan25]

No, what I was saying was there wouldn't be a demand for their service. The military wouldn't need any additional people to serve.

Ahh gotcha. Sadly, we have a hurry up and wait policy and always have 17 soldiers for a 2 man job, get my point lol?

[psychodiver9]

I disagree. If they smoke two packs a day and get lung cancer, that shouldn't be our problem.

It will be regardless. Anyone can get treatment in ER that we pay for

[FitnessCPA]

Ahh gotcha. Sadly, we have a hurry up and wait policy and always have 17 soldiers for a 2 man job, get my point lol?

That's what irritates me. Inefficient use of resources.

[FitnessCPA]

It will be regardless. Anyone can get treatment in ER that we pay for

Unfortunately.

[JasonDB]

Got it. Seems fair to this conservative.

When you say care for them, I assume you're not talking about them getting free care for a doctor's visit for the flu 30 years down the road, right?

I mean get them jobs, an education, any treat all medical and mental medical issues as a result of their service in the military (regardless of expense... if they need an MRI or an opperation you don't ask how much it costs you do it), etc. Not be set for life, but at least taken care of and be better off for having served. If this cannot be factored into the finacial cost of the war... then we can't afford that war so don't get vote for it unless you are willing to also try to dodge a bullet (like they have to do). That is what annoys me about politicians and war... they are willing to commit troops frequently when there is no risk to themselves then forget about them after the fact. I think in that case those who got shot at should have a right to shoot at those who treat them like pawns. I am a liberal... I believe in fairness.

Although I believe in universal socialized healthcare anyway.

[miacanesfan25]

I disagree. If they smoke two packs a day and get lung cancer, that shouldn't be our problem.

I've served 2 combat tours and smoke a pack+ a day, you mad?

[psychodiver9]

I've served 2 combat tours and smoke a pack+ a day, you mad?

Quit. Best thig I ever did. Srs

[miacanesfan25]

Quit. Best thig I ever did. Srs

I do after every cigarette I smoke
I honestly don't want too. I quit for 3 months in basic obviously, and quit voluntarily for about a year maybe 2 or 3 years back. I like smoking, brings me joy lol. The only thing I will say I'd quit for is it would improve my run time but, I already run a 14 min 2 mile or less which most people can barely do in a mile.

[MarkVI]

TLDR

I am incredibly thankful for the troops and think that in regards to medical coverage (especially any kind of PTSD) for any problems/injuries etc.... incurred due to service that they should absolutely be taken care of for life in that capacity.

But...

GI bill should not extend to anyone and should be very limited to the service person...they were compensated and trained for free for their service. Free school for vets? That is a waste IMO, not only is it completely unfair use of tax dollars, vets are also 100x more capable and better equipped to be in the work force without a college education.

What they do need is a great set programs that re acclimates the soldiers to normal society and assist them (see above medical assistance) if they are having trouble doing that.


INB4 people misunderstand what I'm trying to say and I get flamed.....


Cliffs: Vets are more than capable of getting great jobs without us paying for their school or for funding their own school without us paying for it.

[miacanesfan25]

TLDR

I am incredibly thankful for the troops and think that in regards to medical coverage (especially any kind of PTSD) for any problems/injuries etc.... incurred due to service that they should absolutely be taken care of for life in that capacity.

But...

GI bill should not extend to anyone and should be very limited to the service person...they were compensated and trained for free for their service. Free school for vets? That is a waste IMO, not only is it completely unfair use of tax dollars, vets are also 100x more capable and better equipped to be in the work force without a college education.

What they do need is a great set programs that re acclimates the soldiers to normal society and assist them (see above medical assistance) if they are having trouble doing that.


INB4 people misunderstand what I'm trying to say and I get flamed.....


Cliffs: Vets are more than capable of getting great jobs without us paying for their school or for funding their own school without us paying for it.

Tldr lol. I tend to agree with your cliffs though for most troops however, for what some of us go through especially while deployed a free education and health care is a pretty fair trade off. I understand it's our own choice to serve but, somebody's gotta do it. It's an honor to serve and protect this great country and the freedoms we have. All jokes aside until you've seen how the sand people live and what they go through and how appreciative they are of us for the most part it's hard to grasp how important we do really is. With that being said, you should rep me over 2k for my service I kid. But really you should.

[SumDumGoi]

Tldr lol. I tend to agree with your cliffs though for most troops however, for what some of us go through especially while deployed a free education and health care is a pretty fair trade off. I understand it's our own choice to serve but, somebody's gotta do it. It's an honor to serve and protect this great country and the freedoms we have. All jokes aside until you've seen how the sand people live and what they go through and how appreciative they are of us for the most part it's hard to grasp how important we do really is. With that being said, you should rep me over 2k for my service I kid. But really you should.

Perhaps you should be fighting for every citizen to have access to healthcare. I am amused by how much you bitch about governments involvement in healthcare in the other thread while at the same time being perfectly happy with your own government healthcare plan. Why shouldn't every citizen have access to the same healthcare plan that you have?

Your stance reminds me of the sweet irony of these folk;

[miacanesfan25]

Perhaps you should be fighting for every citizen to have access to healthcare. I am amused by how much you bitch about governments involvement in healthcare in the other thread while at the same time being perfectly happy with your own government healthcare plan. Why shouldn't every citizen have access to the same healthcare plan that you have?

Your stance reminds me of the sweet irony of these folk;

Lol are you drunk or just plain retarded? Please show me here in the other thread I bitched about the governments involvement in healthcare? I started a thread looking for opinions and made about 4 posts in the entire thread while you argued endlessly with other people?

On top of that please tell me where I said I was "perfectly happy" with my own government healthcare. I clearly said in post #2 my issues with the VA benefits. The only thing I said was that government healthcare and an education are a pretty fair trade off for what we do.

Furthermore, nothing is free. Have you any idea what I've been through and how many friends I've lost to get the benefits an sh!t pay I have?

Lay off the sauce and gtfo you ass clown.

[JasonDB]

The only thing I said was that government healthcare and an education are a pretty fair trade off for what we do.

Furthermore, nothing is free. Have you any idea what I've been through and how many friends I've lost to get the benefits an sh!t pay I have?

Again while I do believe in socialized medicine... as to this statement I also agree here. My take is that those who serve and are shipped away to distant lands, shot at, watch their friends die right next to them, are often changed for life (I grew up with a ex-special forces vet as a father and believe me Vietnam made him a very hard and distant man)... and at the end of the day they, and their families, deserve a little more than a paycheck and a medal.

If that is too expensive and it can't be afforded... then don't send them. Its a little game I like to call "let's see if we can afford all the finacial responsibilities involved before we invade another country."

[SumDumGoi]

Lol are you drunk or just plain retarded? Please show me here in the other thread I bitched about the governments involvement in healthcare? I started a thread looking for opinions and made about 4 posts in the entire thread while you argued endlessly with other people?

On top of that please tell me where I said I was "perfectly happy" with my own government healthcare. I clearly said in post #2 my issues with the VA benefits. The only thing I said was that government healthcare and an education are a pretty fair trade off for what we do.

Furthermore, nothing is free. Have you any idea what I've been through and how many friends I've lost to get the benefits an sh!t pay I have?

Lay off the sauce and gtfo you ass clown.

My apologies, I had you confused with this post which was posted around the same time you re-entered the discussion.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post908311763


However, I disagree. Being in the military should not get you free healthcare for life unless every other citizen has the same healthcare. Any injuries while incurred on the job should be taken care of for life, but once you leave your employer you are back to being a regular citizen. You fighting for this country, although commendable, should be exactly that; you fighting for the country and the rights of its civilians. It is a job that is very selfless in nature and the expectation that you believe that you deserve such care for life when the average citizen does not have access to this care you begin to take more out of the system then you placed into it.

As you said, nothing is free and everything has to be paid for. I don't see why my taxes should pay for the lifetime healthcare (outside of any problems that occurred during your time spent in the military) for someone who served in the military between the ages of 18-22 if the average citizen does not have the same rights.

[JasonDB]

My apologies, I had you confused with this post which was posted around the same time you re-entered the discussion.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post908311763


However, I disagree. Being in the military should not get you free healthcare for life unless every other citizen has the same healthcare. Any injuries while incurred on the job should be taken care of for life, but once you leave your employer you are back to being a regular citizen. You fighting for this country, although commendable, should be exactly that; you fighting for the country and the rights of its civilians. It is a job that is very selfless in nature and the expectation that you believe that you deserve such care for life when the average citizen does not have access to this care you begin to take more out of the system then you placed into it.

As you said, nothing is free and everything has to be paid for. I don't see why my taxes should pay for the lifetime healthcare (outside of any problems that occurred during your time spent in the military) for someone who served in the military between the ages of 18-22 if the average citizen does not have the same rights.

If you want really high quality socialized medicine in the US, simple remove the healthy care that congressmen, senators and presidents recieve and tell them they will be stuck with private insurance and medicare (when they qualify) just like the rest of us and inside of 5 years the United States will have the finest socialized medicine program the world has ever seen, and they will find a way to pay for it. Easy solution.

[miacanesfan25]

Are you under some sort of dilusion that soldiers don't pay the same federal and state taxes you do? Guess what, unless deployed where fed taxes are exempt, I still do! Even when deployed I still pay medicare and ss tax. Only federal tax and purchase tax are exempt while deployed. We don't get free healthcare for life at all unless you have a combat related injury. I have gotten a nasty back problem, a chronic sprained AC joint, nerve issues, and all sorts of ankle, shin, and knee problems from beig in the army doing pt, getting in and out trucks and other things. But, since they're not combat related I get nothing. Even the G.I. Bill isn't free. The first year a soldier is in the military we pay a fee that goes into it.

[Dre4]

If you want really high quality socialized medicine in the US, simple remove the healthy care that congressmen, senators and presidents recieve and tell them they will be stuck with private insurance and medicare (when they qualify) just like the rest of us and inside of 5 years the United States will have the finest socialized medicine program the world has ever seen, and they will find a way to pay for it. Easy solution.

If only it was plausible. Would be amazing if something like that passed.