The Great Conflict Hypertrophy vs Strength

[Arcanom]

OK. I know benefits of both workout types. The question is why do people recommend strength programs before going into hypertrophy? Why not directly hypertrophy? and why do people recommend hypertrophy routines directly?

I couldnt really hear a strong statement about this. This was a point of arguement between Babylovers and Erik but none actually pointed a good statement with datas supporting the statement.

/Enlighten.

[KingQuads88]

strength programs such as ss and babylovers ss get you ready to transition into hypertrophy routines. basically these strength routines that are so commonly suggested are to introduce new lifters to good form and compound movements which will assist in the areas of basic strength and form when doing a hypertrophy routine down the road.

[Mounakis]

OK. I know benefits of both workout types. The question is why do people recommend strength programs before going into hypertrophy? Why not directly hypertrophy? and why do people recommend hypertrophy routines directly?

I couldnt really hear a strong statement about this. This was a point of arguement between Babylovers and Erik but none actually pointed a good statement with datas supporting the statement.

/Enlighten.

i wonder the same...but ppl who recommend strength training first do it because they say u are progressing faster when u jump on Hypertrophy work after if u have a strength base

[Arcanom]

strength programs such as ss and babylovers ss get you ready to transition into hypertrophy routines. basically these strength routines that are so commonly suggested are to introduce new lifters to good form and compound movements which will assist in the areas of basic strength and form when doing a hypertrophy routine down the road.

well so for many aiming for purely aethetics babylovers 2/3/4 is not necessary? Why cant people aquire form while doing hypertrophy?

note: I'm not trying to be offensive in any matter at this thread. just trying to find answer to every question mark since its highly debated subject.

[KingQuads88]

well so for many aiming for purely aethetics babylovers 2/3/4 is not necessary? Why cant people aquire form while doing hypertrophy?

note: I'm not trying to be offensive in any matter at this thread. just trying to find answer to every question mark since its highly debated subject.

im in no way an expert but in my experiences strength routines are suggested to beginners because they will hit more muscles per workout than a hypertrophy workout would. and this frequency helps the new lifter make more solid gains

[BBqChicken1]

You know.. you can do both.

[Arcanom]

You know.. you can do both.

haha made me lol. So what did you did? For how long and what did you experience?

[Mounakis]

haha made me lol. So what did you did? For how long and what did you experience?

not sure if you think that he is Marius Pudzianowski or i m stupid and didn't understand what u say...

[Arcanom]

not sure if you think that he is Marius Pudzianowski or i m stupid and didn't understand what u say...

I'm not that retard enough...Yet

Was just asking what he did, strength or hypertrophy. Personal experiences do matter. Considering I read his other posts at some other thread he has some valid points.

[spiderman997]

Beginners can't really specialize. When you are a beginner, your body responds well to any type of training. For intermediates and advanced lifters, there is a small difference between training for hypertrophy training and strength training in terms of muscle gain. For beginners, not really. If you have a balanced routine, you grow without the need to land in some magical rep range. With that said, we recommend strength programs because they are simple, lay out the progression for you, and teach you the basic lifts.

Do you HAVE to do a strength program? Absolutely not, but a lot of total novices have difficulty trying to learn all of the lifts in a more complicated routine like an upper / lower, and then struggle to figure out exactly how to maintain progression. A strength program lays all this out for you.

[TheJimmyRustler]

Having recently talked in PM with a guy who's shredded and got a sick physique with some good lifts (2/3/4) I asked him at what point he stopped training for strength and aimed for hypertrophy - he said he stopped at quite low numbers, and just gained the strength while training for size. Since my lifts are currently more than his were when he transitioned over, screw it, I'm just gonna train for size from now on.

[Arcanom]

Having recently talked in PM with a guy who's shredded and got a sick physique with some good lifts (2/3/4) I asked him at what point he stopped training for strength and aimed for hypertrophy - he said he stopped at quite low numbers, and just gained the strength while training for size. Since my lifts are currently more than his were when he transitioned over, screw it, I'm just gonna train for size from now on.

I'm also training for size although my lifts are not high. I did see good gains at last 3 weeks with PHAT (Layne Norton's). No doubt I did also see good gains with Babylovers SS. I was a weak good and became a relatively ok guy. Reason I'm asking is finding the optimal. Looking to spider's post, it seems that the strength routine is not necessary for optimal gains as long as you are doing what you are doing correclty at a hypertrophy routine. Lift correct eat correct and gain.

[TheJimmyRustler]

I'm also training for size although my lifts are not high. I did see good gains at last 3 weeks with PHAT (Layne Norton's). No doubt I did also see good gains with Babylovers SS. I was a weak good and became a relatively ok guy. Reason I'm asking is finding the optimal. Looking to spider's post, it seems that the strength routine is not necessary for optimal gains as long as you are doing what you are doing correclty at a hypertrophy routine. Lift correct eat correct and gain.

Yeah, I think it really just depends what your goals are - getting strong would be awesome, but I'm not just happy with my body looks so, knowing that it can take less than a year to look a helluva lot better than I do now and add some plates to the bar (using the guy I spoke with as the benchmark, anyways) I decided to ditch strength training altogether. Were I happy with how my body looked, injury-free, and if I felt I was getting positive results from it, I'd probably keep at it, but since I've gotten no good results and my body hasn't changed much, if at all, I just feel it's time for a change.

So like I said, it just depends on your goals.

[bicepcurlz]

Because you want to start off by gaining strength and working every little and big muscle in your body. Strength training usually focuses on compounds more and these are what make your body acclimate well to lifting heavier, and activating every muscle and fiber possible. If you start with hypertrophy you'll probably be more inclined towards isolations neglecting certain stabilzer muscles and not make the same progression as on a strength routine. Since hypertrophy routines are reccommended and proven to be more effective with heavier weights, low repetition strength routines allow for quicker progression and the lifting of heavier weights in a shorter amount of time, after a plateau or a predefined amount of strength acclimation then you can choose to gain size more quickly with hypertrophy. Also strength routines affect more myofibrillar hypertrophy making the muscles more solid and dense, after strength is gained you can stretch fibers with sarcoplasmic hypertrophy to gain size allowing a good amount of size and density to your muscle for a fuller look.

[southparkbbb]

as spiderman alrdy said, for intermediate and advanced lifters there is a small difference in muscle gain from doing HST and strength programs, so why not train for both if u can still do a strength program and incude muscular hypetrophy? the only difference rllly in the two is a) the rep range and weight and B)is that with HST you are recruiting more slow fibers as compared to strength training where you primarily recruit fast twitch fibers first (depending on the % of 1rm you are lifting); hypertrophy can still be obtained though from doing a strength program

[IceJ]

Here are the reasons I like to train for stength (just getting started but taking a week off due to back issues):

1. Not many others around me are doing it. I like to be different and do Strength Training. The only way to get better at squats is to keep squatting and not just once a week. But I also love to bench and squat, and while I'm not suppose to do them, I think I'll be falling in love with the deadlift again.

2. Your adding 5 lbs to each lift everytime you do it (or atleast your suppose to) so you'll get your lifts up quicker.

3. You don't have to go to the gym as much. Doesn't sound great, and I actually plan on going any time I'm able to train without being too sore. But if you have a busy schedule with school, work, learning to drive and all that crap, it's easier for you to stick to it.

4. You'll learn how to do the lifts. Just don't go up too fast. I remember my first time around I thought I was superman deadlifting trying to add 10-20 lbs on my deadlift each week until it caught up to me and bit me right in the butt and I strained one of my upperback muscles and it kept me out a while.

[endlesss]

do you think you can build much muscle mass on a hypertrophy program if you are benching less than a plate or unable to even do a couple pullups lol

[T_O_N_Y]

Big difference for beginners on a routine like Starting Strength is motivation through progression, when you see those numbers go up every week it keeps you motivated and coming back for more which is needed in the beginning as visual muscle gains are very slow. I found that doing this for 6 months or so builds good habits of sticking with a program and molds the trainees training principles and character as it takes a lot of focus and dedication to get under the bar and hit a PR every single week.

[Arcos27]

do you think you can build much muscle mass on a hypertrophy program if you are benching less than a plate or unable to even do a couple pullups lol

With progressive overload anything is possible.

[KCC86]

do you think you can build much muscle mass on a hypertrophy program if you are benching less than a plate or unable to even do a couple pullups lol

Facepalm.jpg

[iMac46]

is it also good to do SS first so that your weights for each compound exercise to get to a respectable weight THEN do all pros to gain mass this time? will it work well like this?

[Francis333]

is it also good to do SS first so that your weights for each compound exercise to get to a respectable weight THEN do all pros to gain mass this time? will it work well like this?

Yes. Just make sure you eat.

[babylover]

Get to a basic level of strength. /3/2/5

Do whatever the **** you want after that.
There is no reason that should take any longer than 6 months.

The kid doing those numbers will be much stronger on a traditional split then some kid who's db benching 65 after a year of training.

[DanCaroll]

Get some strength on you first. For atleast the first 6 months. Then you can train more Hypertrophy

[hardysea]

Hi there this is my first post,

I'm 21 years old this year and have played rugby all my life, and am now looking to take it more seriously. I have had extensive time in the gym over the years through rowing and rugby programs so I know my way around good techniques for most movements, Im coming to the end of my season this year and want to set myself up for a massive year next year. I've got about 8 months to hit up a preseason program and one of my key goals is to be much stronger and bigger.

So heres the question, im 81kg currently and ive been told i need to be around 88-90kg. I also need to be able to have a 2 rep max of 1.3 times my body weight (around 120kg) for bench press and squats, as well as just generally a lot stronger. I'm not looking for an exact program, although any info you guys have would be awesome, more so what the best way to go about my program would be. Do I start with a strength base and then hit hypertrophy to give me the mass i want. OR do I go the other way and get a hypertrophy program going to get me near my goal weight, and then switch to strength to bring me up to my goals.

Cheers

[ptwa9]

Do you HAVE to do a strength program? Absolutely not, but a lot of total novices have difficulty trying to learn all of the lifts in a more complicated routine like an upper / lower, and then struggle to figure out exactly how to maintain progression. A strength program lays all this out for you.

This. The main reason we recommend the starting strength routine on here.

[PatFel]

Does anyone here agree with EricK?

That beginners should do upper/lower hypertrophy splits with lots of isolation?

[bravo96]

Does anyone here agree with EricK?

That beginners should do upper/lower hypertrophy splits with lots of isolation?

nothing wrong with an upper/lower but i dont like erics template.

[PatFel]

nothing wrong with an upper/lower but i dont like erics template.

What don't you like about it? It seems pretty standard

[bravo96]

What don't you like about it? It seems pretty standard

honestly i just think 29 sets is over kill for a beginer. you may aswell just do lyles routines.