Carb Back Loading

[thom2355]

then backload after training days and not so much on off days

Disagree. If we open our textbooks to page 67, paragraph 2.5, last sentence, in plain English is the statement that the backload is intended to prepare for the next day's training, not recover from today's training.

[HamburgerTrain]

Disagree. If we open our textbooks to page 67, paragraph 2.5, last sentence, in plain English is the statement that the backload is intended to prepare for the next day's training, not recover from today's training.

Thank God someone else on here actually read the f*cking book. There is so much bad information in this thread, I don't even know where to start to help.

This is 100% correct though.

[mitten]

i know.....I have the book. He isnt taking back to back off days and the backload will work better if he does it after training.


if u disagree with me can u provide a sample week of training and on what days you would backload. From what i got from the book, it would be more optimal to train between 3-5 and backload after that, if u go more than 1 day off have some carbs the night before your training day. If you lift in the morning you have carbs the night before ur training day.

[Retardo-pex]

Also I would never spend $80 on a book... let alone an e-book, the bible is free...just sayin. Carb back loadimg isn't revolutionay, and to be honest no diet is. No book is worth spending $80 outside of attaining a degree. Well I should say no diet/nutrition book is worth it.

Its obviously worth it to some people. Its just a way to distribute information, if you are the one with the information why wouldn't you charge for it? Reading an e-book is no different then reading a physical copy of a book either so what does that have to do with it? I had to spend about $200 on a nutrition book for an elective class in college and it wasn't exactly something useful for every day life let alone assisting in my main hobby of choice.

[thom2355]

Thank God someone else on here actually read the f*cking book. There is so much bad information in this thread, I don't even know where to start to help.

This is 100% correct though.

Seems like a lot of people guessing at what the diet would be based on other nutritional recommendations, without wanting to pay for the book to see what it actually is/should be.

i know.....I have the book. He isnt taking back to back off days and the backload will work better if he does it after training.

if u disagree with me can u provide a sample week of training and on what days you would backload. From what i got from the book, it would be more optimal to train between 3-5 and backload after that, if u go more than 1 day off have some carbs the night before your training day. If you lift in the morning you have carbs the night before ur training day.

Work better for what? The backload has a purpose of ensuring glycogen stores are full for the next days training. The entire chapter that contains the sentence I referenced above talks about how it is more beneficial for training to have the glycogen stores full for training rather than after. Now, the three exceptions (high volume, density bulking and back to back off days) may be different, but it takes trial and error to figure those out.

I don't have a typical scenario as I train for strongman and will backload everyday (to a lesser degree for off days if not depleted), but a typical Westside split would be:

Monday - ME Lower - Backload
Tuesday - ME Upper - Off day
Wednesday - Off - Backload
Thursday - DE Lower - Backload
Friday - DE Upper - Off day
Saturday - Off - Off day
Sunday - Off - Backload

As he says multiple times in the book, the diet is only simple and effective if you stick to the concepts as he writes them. There is some interpretation required in certain areas when it comes to customizing, but to start one may be best served to stick to the baseline recommendations.

[mitten]

Seems like a lot of people guessing at what the diet would be based on other nutritional recommendations, without wanting to pay for the book to see what it actually is/should be.



Work better for what? The backload has a purpose of ensuring glycogen stores are full for the next days training. The entire chapter that contains the sentence I referenced above talks about how it is more beneficial for training to have the glycogen stores full for training rather than after. Now, the three exceptions (high volume, density bulking and back to back off days) may be different, but it takes trial and error to figure those out.

I don't have a typical scenario as I train for strongman and will backload everyday (to a lesser degree for off days if not depleted), but a typical Westside split would be:

Monday - ME Lower - Backload
Tuesday - ME Upper - Off day
Wednesday - Off - Backload
Thursday - DE Lower - Backload
Friday - DE Upper - Off day
Saturday - Off - Off day
Sunday - Off - Backload

As he says multiple times in the book, the diet is only simple and effective if you stick to the concepts as he writes them. There is some interpretation required in certain areas when it comes to customizing, but to start one may be best served to stick to the baseline recommendations.

wouldnt the backload work better when eating carbs after training becuase tglut would come to the surface of the muscle, which is something that i think lasts for only a few hours after training. I understand refilling glycogen stores for the next training day, and to me this seems like the best way to do it without accumulating any fat gain. If u lift every other day, whats the problem with backloading on training days, will ur glycogen stores empty that fast?

[thom2355]

wouldnt the backload work better when eating carbs after training becuase tglut would come to the surface of the muscle, which is something that i think lasts for only a few hours after training. I understand refilling glycogen stores for the next training day, and to me this seems like the best way to do it without accumulating any fat gain. If u lift every other day, whats the problem with backloading on training days, will ur glycogen stores empty that fast?

This is the part where I had to shut my brain off and take the book's recommendations for what they were. Without completely reading through the references in Chapter 12, I cannot say what the duration of the tGLUT translocation is, but given the additional benefits listed on page 42-43, it would illustrate that the resistance training has a lasting effect on tGLUT. This would allow glucose uptake into the muscle cells from a backload on an off day prior to a training day.

It may vary person to person depending on goals, training schedule, etc....but the book explicitly states that the backload is done the day before training (with the three exceptions). Trying to interpret why Kiefer recommends it and looking for contradictions is not what I am aiming to do at this time. I just want to give the nutritional protocol a shot and see how I fare.

[mitten]

This is the part where I had to shut my brain off and take the book's recommendations for what they were. Without completely reading through the references in Chapter 12, I cannot say what the duration of the tGLUT translocation is, but given the additional benefits listed on page 42-43, it would illustrate that the resistance training has a lasting effect on tGLUT. This would allow glucose uptake into the muscle cells from a backload on an off day prior to a training day.

It may vary person to person depending on goals, training schedule, etc....but the book explicitly states that the backload is done the day before training (with the three exceptions). Trying to interpret why Kiefer recommends it and looking for contradictions is not what I am aiming to do at this time. I just want to give the nutritional protocol a shot and see how I fare.

fair enough. For me its hard to figure out exactly the best way to do it and i was just recommending how i interpreted the information. I wasnt trying to find a better way and put my own spin on it.

[MannUSAF]

Its obviously worth it to some people. Its just a way to distribute information, if you are the one with the information why wouldn't you charge for it? Reading an e-book is no different then reading a physical copy of a book either so what does that have to do with it? I had to spend about $200 on a nutrition book for an elective class in college and it wasn't exactly something useful for every day life let alone assisting in my main hobby of choice.

I'm not trying to bash anyone, I was just surprised because this isn't new information. I'm more shocked at how much money he is charging for something runners have been doing for decades. I'm also pretty sure I've read old bodybuilding diets similar to this. I'll have to check my library to make sure. I could be wrong. I haven't read the book, so I could be way of base about his methods, but I'm just gleaning the general idea off of what people are posting in here. I thought this information was quite common and well known. One only needs basic knowledge on body chemistry and nutrition to know a method like that would work and I thought most guys in the powerlifting section already had similar diets. To each his own I guess.

[PhreEkGarden]

Thank God someone else on here actually read the f*cking book. There is so much bad information in this thread, I don't even know where to start to help.

This is 100% correct though.

I'm reading it, and just skimmed through it again. I don't see anywhere that he says to eat on non-training days.

To copy paste from the book....

"And as I cover later, Carb Back-Loading helps maintain glycogen levels for the next day’s training."

"Rebuilding the depleted stores—depleted assuming an ass-busting training session—isn’t necessarily for muscle growth. Glycogen stores fuel performance, nervous system
recovery and help limit muscle breakdown during the next-day’s training."

"Once again, replenishing glycogen levels is not to recover from today’s training but to prepare for the next day’s."

My understanding of this is I don't see it as meaning the VERY NEXT day. All throughout the book it says to feast directly after training.

[PhreEkGarden]

Disagree. If we open our textbooks to page 67, paragraph 2.5, last sentence, in plain English is the statement that the backload is intended to prepare for the next day's training, not recover from today's training.

I disagree with this. I don't think he meant the very next day. Would have to clarify with him though I guess.

[HamburgerTrain]

I'm reading it, and just skimmed through it again. I don't see anywhere that he says to eat on non-training days.

To copy paste from the book....

"And as I cover later, Carb Back-Loading helps maintain glycogen levels for the next day’s training."

"Rebuilding the depleted stores—depleted assuming an ass-busting training session—isn’t necessarily for muscle growth. Glycogen stores fuel performance, nervous system
recovery and help limit muscle breakdown during the next-day’s training."

"Once again, replenishing glycogen levels is not to recover from today’s training but to prepare for the next day’s."

My understanding of this is I don't see it as meaning the VERY NEXT day. All throughout the book it says to feast directly after training.

For density bulking, yes, carbs directly after training everyday. You basically answered your own concern though. Carbs are to ensure you can handle the workload of the next training session, not assist in recovery from the previous one. It is not necessary to backload everyday if there is no training the following day. He states this very clearly when talking about the strength accumulation plan. I believe his exact way to determine if you even need to backload like a maniac is if you wake up feeling 'soft' the next day, lower the carbs if doing the strength accumulation.

I assume this is the plan everyone is referring to. Personally, I am trying to get as big and fat as f*cking possible. So, I plan on backloading every single day and eating carbs PWO (I train in the AM usually).

[Jason2459]

...

I assume this is the plan everyone is referring to. Personally, I am trying to get as big and fat as f*cking possible. So, I plan on backloading every single day and eating carbs PWO (I train in the AM usually).

Not sure if this is what you realty meant to say? But if you are not worried about being fat as well then why follow CBL at all?

[thom2355]

I assume this is the plan everyone is referring to. Personally, I am trying to get as big and fat as f*cking possible. So, I plan on backloading every single day and eating carbs PWO (I train in the AM usually).

Nice. Taking a page right out of the eat like a fat kid section!

Not sure if this is what you realty meant to say? But if you are not worried about being fat as well then why follow CBL at all?

It would still have strength benefits, but you don't get the benefit of not adding on fat. If getting fat isn't a concern, why not?

[HamburgerTrain]

Not sure if this is what you realty meant to say? But if you are not worried about being fat as well then why follow CBL at all?

From a performance standpoint, it is the best eating plan I have used so far. Plus, if I can actually get my weight up (around 300lbs) without being a total fat f*ck (only a kinda fat f*ck) that would be nice.

[NIsrael]

i will say this for carb back loading, it has made my frequency in the gym much higher bc I want to eat carbs and junk food lol I end up going in 6 days a week almost, adding in extra stuff on top of my sheiko cycles so I can eat more and not get fat as f lol

[Jason2459]

From a performance standpoint, it is the best eating plan I have used so far. Plus, if I can actually get my weight up (around 300lbs) without being a total fat f*ck (only a kinda fat f*ck) that would be nice.

Interesting I'll have to look into this. So, basically if I'm either training or doing GPP/SPP every day I would backload every night?

[Jason2459]

i will say this for carb back loading, it has made my frequency in the gym much higher bc I want to eat carbs and junk food lol I end up going in 6 days a week almost, adding in extra stuff on top of my sheiko cycles so I can eat more and not get fat as f lol

That's sounds pretty awesome. I've never heard of this before but have been following this thread with interest.

[ErickStevens]

I've been doing a combination of CBL and BioRhythm Diet and I've never felt better. I've set tons of PRs, been eating pretty much whatever I want (within reason), and have maintained my weight for the past two months. This is also the leanest I've ever been at 215lbs in my life.

[thom2355]

Interesting I'll have to look into this. So, basically if I'm either training or doing GPP/SPP every day I would backload every night?

There are several different possibilities depending on your training, goals, body response, etc. All of which can change at any time. The best bet is to read the book every couple months and figure out how to adapt it to meet your goals at the time.

[isaku900]

I assume this is the plan everyone is referring to. Personally, I am trying to get as big and fat as f*cking possible. So, I plan on backloading every single day and eating carbs PWO (I train in the AM usually).

This is what I've been doing...not backloading every day = losing 20lbs in a week...5 weeks out from a meet....in multiply gear... = disaster.

[Jason2459]

I take it it's this infomercial looking site? http://carbbackloading.com/

[thom2355]

I take it it's this infomercial looking site? http://carbbackloading.com/

yup.

[Jason2459]

yup.

on my ereader now

[Doollas]

I'm not sure what to say about the diet or the book...I would really like to look over his references (which I hear are numerous and legit) because every peer-reviewed study I have read basically says nutrient timing is mostly pointless. This seems like an extreme manipulation of carb timing so perhaps it goes work, or perhaps it's just psychologically easier.

For those guys who are actually losing weight, how many of you are actually counting calories?

Also, from what I can tell from this thread, 1) this book, nor the Aragon info out there, or any legit info out there, has actually sunk into anyone's minds as I have seen many posters in this thread display their ignorance towards nutrition and 2) Keifer is charging a huge price for a book that explains very little. I say this because there are a ton of very basic diet-related questions that people who own the book have no answers for and there are a ton of differing opinions from people who actually have the book on what the diet is.

[Jason2459]

Also, from what I can tell from this thread ,

Good questions but that ^^^ right there is a mistake on your part.

[thom2355]

I'm not sure what to say about the diet or the book...I would really like to look over his references (which I hear are numerous and legit) because every peer-reviewed study I have read basically says nutrient timing is mostly pointless. This seems like an extreme manipulation of carb timing so perhaps it goes work, or perhaps it's just psychologically easier.

For those guys who are actually losing weight, how many of you are actually counting calories?

Also, from what I can tell from this thread, 1) this book, nor the Aragon info out there, or any legit info out there, has actually sunk into anyone's minds as I have seen many posters in this thread display their ignorance towards nutrition and 2) Keifer is charging a huge price for a book that explains very little. I say this because there are a ton of very basic diet-related questions that people who own the book have no answers for and there are a ton of differing opinions from people who actually have the book on what the diet is.

Calories are counted.

Not gonna address #1

#2) part of the huge price of the book is access to a "members only" type of forum that further explains questions and helps those who use CBL further modify it for their needs if their own trial and error doesn't suffice. Kiefer states in the beginning of the book that he plans to continue research and will update the book as required (and those who have the book get free/steep discounts on the updates). This could explain some of his vagueness in certain areas.

[maybesew]

I'm not sure what to say about the diet or the book...I would really like to look over his references (which I hear are numerous and legit) because every peer-reviewed study I have read basically says nutrient timing is mostly pointless. This seems like an extreme manipulation of carb timing so perhaps it goes work, or perhaps it's just psychologically easier.

For those guys who are actually losing weight, how many of you are actually counting calories?

Also, from what I can tell from this thread, 1) this book, nor the Aragon info out there, or any legit info out there, has actually sunk into anyone's minds as I have seen many posters in this thread display their ignorance towards nutrition and 2) Keifer is charging a huge price for a book that explains very little. I say this because there are a ton of very basic diet-related questions that people who own the book have no answers for and there are a ton of differing opinions from people who actually have the book on what the diet is.

1) Not counting calories

2) Good point on things not sinking in, but I think there are a good amount of people that don't read the book and/or skim the book and are trying to infer everything from what they have read. ie. there is a lot of the information on his web site. therefore people are trying to "follow the program" with only pieces of info which results in disaster.

3) as for what he is charging, since he sells thru click bank a lot of the cost goes towards commissions of the referrers. If people buy the book without coming from a referrer, yes he makes bank. But if it comes from a referral, then he pays out $61 is commission, which leaves him with a much more reasonable $28 in revenue

[C0bra]

Thank God someone else on here actually read the f*cking book. There is so much bad information in this thread, I don't even know where to start to help.

This is 100% correct though.

Hamburger....I bought the book and read the whole thing, been on the diet for 3 weeks now. Wanted to get your input on using this diet when preparing for a meet since you have experience in this area. The week of the meet I do not train (like most people). In your opinion would it be wise to do no carb the entire week and backload the night before the meet, or have some smaller backload meals two nights that week, and a regular backload the night before the meet?

[Doollas]

Jason, good point lol, but typically I would hope a forum associated with bb.com has more knowledge and fewer concrete-set opinions on nutrition than the general public.

Calories are counted.

Not gonna address #1

#2) part of the huge price of the book is access to a "members only" type of forum that further explains questions and helps those who use CBL further modify it for their needs if their own trial and error doesn't suffice. Kiefer states in the beginning of the book that he plans to continue research and will update the book as required (and those who have the book get free/steep discounts on the updates). This could explain some of his vagueness in certain areas.

Interesting well then $80 could be worth it if it's legit. I found a page where he listed a bunch of references I might take a look at (screw the thesis and my real job) to see if its worth it.

As far as cals...that's my question, how many cals are people eating and what is the total macro breakdown for off and on days.