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  1. #1
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Exclamation Soy Protein and Estrogen Blocker

    Hey all,

    So I've developed lactose intolerance and can't use whey protein anymore. Thus I have had to start using soy protein. I know soy has estrogen in it which is bad for men, but I was just told that it causes fat to stay on the body and diminishes muscle mass. Obviously I can't go back to using whey protein so I was wondering if there was such a thing as an estrogen blocker that I could take so that I may continue to use soy protein without having to worry about the negative side effects? What do you recommend?
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    EDC brah rhadam's Avatar
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    Have you looked in to rice or pea protein?
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  3. #3
    Muscle Man Manuel D3Baseball's Avatar
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    Those are all myths. While soy resembles an estrogen, it has been studied as a primary protein source and has not been shown to change hormone levels in men. Use it as you please. It is going to be MUCH cheaper than typical wheys, but since mainstream companies don't tend to make it, no guarantees on taste. A whey isolate also doesn't contain lactose, FYI, but is very expensive.
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  4. #4
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Have you looked in to rice or pea protein?
    No. I shop at Sam's Club because they typically have cheap prices in comparison to GNC and Walmart and all they have was Soy Protein and Whey Protein.
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    EDC brah rhadam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by altarion View Post
    No. I shop at Sam's Club because they typically have cheap prices in comparison to GNC and Walmart and all they have was Soy Protein and Whey Protein.
    Just get the soy then. As d3 said, the estrogenic potential of soy protein is overstated. It does exist, but enough to effect body composition...? I doubt it.
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  6. #6
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Just get the soy then. As d3 said, the estrogenic potential of soy protein is overstated. It does exist, but enough to effect body composition...? I doubt it.
    So then what will an antiestrogen supplement do for me?
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    Originally Posted by altarion View Post
    So then what will an antiestrogen supplement do for me?
    Most of them? nothing. A few might lower your estrogen, which may or may not be useful.
    However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results - Dr. John Berardi
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by altarion View Post
    Hey all,

    So I've developed lactose intolerance and can't use whey protein anymore. Thus I have had to start using soy protein. I know soy has estrogen in it which is bad for men, but I was just told that it causes fat to stay on the body and diminishes muscle mass. Obviously I can't go back to using whey protein so I was wondering if there was such a thing as an estrogen blocker that I could take so that I may continue to use soy protein without having to worry about the negative side effects? What do you recommend?
    Kirkland lactaid pills are cheap. Also, I don't think whey has enough lactose to affect lactose introlerance anyway? At least it doesn't affect mine.
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  9. #9
    Why so serious? Yates Row T's Avatar
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    Use wpi.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Spork3245 View Post
    Kirkland lactaid pills are cheap. Also, I don't think whey has enough lactose to affect lactose introlerance anyway? At least it doesn't affect mine.
    There are quite a few people that have troubles from the lactose in whey. Perhaps not as severe symptoms as milk, but uncomfortable nonetheless.
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  11. #11
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Spork3245 View Post
    Kirkland lactaid pills are cheap. Also, I don't think whey has enough lactose to affect lactose introlerance anyway? At least it doesn't affect mine.
    I tried lactaid when I first developed my intolerance and it gave me a terrible case of the runs.
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  12. #12
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Yates Row T View Post
    Use wpi.
    What's WPI?
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  13. #13
    Krav Maga Guy Spork3245's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    There are quite a few people that have troubles from the lactose in whey. Perhaps not as severe symptoms as milk, but uncomfortable nonetheless.
    You sure? http://focusology.com/lactose-intole...rotein-powder/
    Maybe it's actually a casein allergy that's affecting these people and they are using blends...? The symptoms are pretty much the same as lactose intolerence.

    EDIT: Ah, Whey Concentrate has higher lactose than isolate
    OP: Use Isolate, there's not enough lactose in it to affect you according to the Whey Protein Institute.
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  14. #14
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    Rice protein(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22330327) or whey protein isolate like others have said. Males should disregard dat der soy protein
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    Ahhh god... Please don't use Anti Aromatase (spell check please) Estrogen blockers please... I made the mistake of taking it.... Sent me straight to hospital for Heart Palpitations... You are too young for these things as am I. I suggest you wait until you are 20 and you can take it.
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by 411826 View Post
    Ahhh god... Please don't use Anti Aromatase (spell check please) Estrogen blockers please... I made the mistake of taking it.... Sent me straight to hospital for Heart Palpitations... You are too young for these things as am I. I suggest you wait until you are 20 and you can take it.
    They're many natural/herbal AIs that are perfectly safe, Triazole is probably tops on my list as a product built around that.
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  17. #17
    Muscle Man Manuel D3Baseball's Avatar
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    I'm going to go ahead and still recommend soy. The estrogen properties are overstated and possibly non-existent, amino profile is okay, and it's going to be half the price of WPI. Rice protein would be okay too (unless you're Gaspari, apparently) but is much harder to find. Pea protein tastes like ass.
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  18. #18
    EDC brah rhadam's Avatar
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    Pea protein is very hard to flavor.

    And i'll say again, i hightly doubt soy protein will have much [if any] effect on body composition. Would i supplement 100g a day for years on end? No lol. Moderation is key.
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  19. #19
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  20. #20
    hustlehands Hansolo261's Avatar
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    Do a good colon cleanse. Then look into an isolate if possible. I use to have a lot of customers who became lactose intolerant due to their diets and the build up of crap in their digestive system
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  21. #21
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hansolo261 View Post
    Do a good colon cleanse. Then look into an isolate if possible. I use to have a lot of customers who became lactose intolerant due to their diets and the build up of crap in their digestive system
    The doctor who diagnosed me said that it was possible to reverse my intolerance. You think a good colon cleanse could help this?
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by altarion View Post
    The doctor who diagnosed me said that it was possible to reverse my intolerance.
    What did the doctor suggest when he said that?
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  23. #23
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    What did the doctor suggest when he said that?
    She said that it happens to a bunch of college students because the cafeteria food isn't the highest quality. She said that if I improve my diet (which I did) and start taking a multivitamin then after a few months I should be able to start (slowly) introducing dairy back into my diet. She also said to try lactaid. (As I mentioned above I don't use lactaid anymore because of negative side effects). It's been a little over a month since I've been home from school and haven't had cafeteria food once, yet I still get a lot of intestinal pain and sickness when I consume dairy.
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  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by altarion View Post
    She said that it happens to a bunch of college students because the cafeteria food isn't the highest quality. She said that if I improve my diet (which I did) and start taking a multivitamin then after a few months I should be able to start (slowly) introducing dairy back into my diet. She also said to try lactaid. (As I mentioned above I don't use lactaid anymore because of negative side effects). It's been a little over a month since I've been home from school and haven't had cafeteria food once, yet I still get a lot of intestinal pain and sickness when I consume dairy.
    That sucks man, you should try some whey protein isolate and see how you tolerate that as it should be low in lactose. Other than that maybe suggest looking into pro/prebiotics that help to improve the gut flora.
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    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    That sucks man, you should try some whey protein isolate and see how you tolerate that as it should be low in lactose. Other than that maybe suggest looking into pro/prebiotics that help to improve the gut flora.
    What do you recommend?
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  26. #26
    hustlehands Hansolo261's Avatar
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    Op, look into a product like gut health. Try To increase daily fiber intake. Thru diet or supps. It could help some.
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    fortes fortuna adiuvat itzDodge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by altarion View Post
    What do you recommend?
    Well Genomyx has a product called Gut Health but you really can't go too wrong when chosing a probiotic. I believe SAN has one as well which is also packed with colonizing units. I'll let others chime in with their opinions as I've only used my own company's product but I do enjoy it as does my family lol.
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  28. #28
    Muscle Man Manuel D3Baseball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    For the unawares in regards to soy: yes phytoestrogens are no bueno for guys, you should avoid them.

    http://www.biolreprod.org/content/ea...rod.112.099846

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20554919

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21624456
    These suggest avoidance in newborns and are performed on rats

    This is a case study (n=1) on a type 1 diabetic.

    There is a fair amount of info out there that shows no support for soy protein feminizing men or affecting men, but if nothing else, common sense should prevail. There are entire cultures that have soy-based diets that do not seem to be ridden with men w/ breasts or anything like that. There is evidence that isoflavones can have anti-estrogenic activity as well. This is not to mention the fact that many of the SPI's on the market (almost all of them are SPI, not SPC) do not contain isoflavones.

    http://topsecretnutrition.net/soypro...a-analysis.pdf
    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/6/1244S.full.pdf
    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...micals/soyiso/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
    http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA31221...-Baby-Boy.html
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    OP one reason you may like SAN Cultivate over other products is because it is not just a probiotic, as it also contains digestive enzymes that may help you as well. You can buy it here on bb.com:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/san/cultivate.html



    I'm with you on shoddy cafeteria food, and that led me to start supplementing with a greens supplement. These are great in that they offer digestive benefits in addition to their overall health and immune effects as well. Another great thing about SAN Green Supreme Fusion is that it doesn't taste like ****! Definitely near (or at) the top of its class taste-wise, which does matter when it comes to getting you to actually drink the stuff.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sa...me-fusion.html
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  30. #30
    Registered User altarion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    OP one reason you may like SAN Cultivate over other products is because it is not just a probiotic, as it also contains digestive enzymes that may help you as well. You can buy it here on bb.com:






    I'm with you on shoddy cafeteria food, and that led me to start supplementing with a greens supplement. These are great in that they offer digestive benefits in addition to their overall health and immune effects as well. Another great thing about SAN Green Supreme Fusion is that it doesn't taste like ****! Definitely near (or at) the top of its class taste-wise, which does matter when it comes to getting you to actually drink the stuff.
    I'm currently taking Cellucor Super HD. Will I be able to take a probiotic with this supplement or will that have negative side effects?
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