Methylsynephrine & Isopropyloctopamine - What are we ACTUALLY ingesting????

[dbone1026]

take them all at once

as a suppository...

[DinoT1985]

So Methyl Synephrine versus Ephedrine versus Yohimbine mixed with caffeine? which is the BEST?

Im currently on ephedrine+caffeine, and this stuff is amazing, and CHEAP. I have Yohimbine but stopped using it with EC when i heard its dangerous and counterproductive.

Methylsynephrine requires a much smaller dosage than regular synephrine with double the half life. I think it's 3-6 hours. Ephedrine's half life is around the same. They both stimulate the same receptors in your brain so the stim like affects are comparable. Ephedrine seems to increase the metabolic rate at a greater level.

Don't combine them. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22408069

[sloop]

No official explanation yet?

[TheGilmore]

No official explanation yet?

Soon.jpg

[DinoT1985]

In 2010 Nutrex was taken to court due to having the drug Oxilofrine in some of their products.

It has also caused many problems for athletes having failed drug tests. I have attached an example along with the Nutrex case.

[chromaffin]

Methylsynephrine requires a much smaller dosage than regular synephrine with double the half life. I think it's 3-6 hours. Ephedrine's half life is around the same. They both stimulate the same receptors in your brain so the stim like affects are comparable. Ephedrine seems to increase the metabolic rate at a greater level.

Don't combine them. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22408069

First, methylsynephrine actually requires a larger dose to affect hemodynamic factors than synephrine (not for lipolysis, in which synephrine may as well be disregarded). Methylsynephrine is well-tolerated at doses of up to 120mg, whereas p-synephrine can be dangerous at much lower quantities.

Also, the study you cited elucidates the dangers of stacking p-synephrine with epehedrine and caffeine. While I still would not advocate co-administration of ephedrine, MS, and caffeine, MS' safety profile is far more favorable than p-synephrine and the likelihood of a toxic outcome is far lower.

I wouldn't be too concerned about ephedrine or methylsynephrine's effects in the brain, as the beta-hydroxyl on both compounds precludes significant CNS penetration.

[chromaffin]

What if your name was Troy Stram, and you were the Team triathlon captain at Penn State, and your urine sample was unexpectedly flagged positive for oxilofrine doping? --> I'd bet your stance on DSHEA compliance would be much different at that point.

Are you a competitive athlete? I'm not, and thus my opinion is selfishly limited to myself.

Back on topic, I believe answers to the original question have been provided with respect to methylsynephrine. What I am more curious about is whether or not the FDA's stance on betaphrine has changed in the past few years. For those who have full-text access to the study examining the effects of isopropylnorsynephrine on lipolysis relative to other constituents of Citrus aurantium, did the authors specifically state that the betaphrine was synthetic?

[Free Weight Friedel]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=145500011

IForce's response!

[NO HYPE]

What I am more curious about is whether or not the FDA's stance on betaphrine has changed in the past few years. For those who have full-text access to the study examining the effects of isopropylnorsynephrine on lipolysis relative to other constituents of Citrus aurantium, did the authors specifically state that the betaphrine was synthetic?

The author clearly states "isopropyl derivative".

Additionally in terms of synthesis - Adamski et al. 1975, demonstrated that isopropyloctopamine is sythesized by reacting a ketone with a hydrochloride salt of an alkanolamine in the presence of hydrogen/palladium on a charcoal catalyst.

[chromaffin]

The author clearly states "isopropyl derivative".

Additionally in terms of synthesis - Adamski et al. 1975, demonstrated that isopropyloctopamine is sythesized by reacting a ketone with a hydrochloride salt of an alkanolamine in the presence of hydrogen/palladium on a charcoal catalyst.

Thanks for the information. I'm not too well-versed in the rules of this industry, but have you read the iForce response? They have a point with respect to creatine derivatives and the like, though again, I don't know if that is a broad-spectrum violation of DSHEA that is simply accepted at this point.

[NO HYPE]

Thanks for the information. I'm not too well-versed in the rules of this industry, but have you read the iForce response? They have a point with respect to creatine derivatives and the like, though again, I don't know if that is a broad-spectrum violation of DSHEA that is simply accepted at this point.

Yeah, I'm checking out iForce's response right now.

[PinchTheBear]

I wouldn't be too concerned about ephedrine or methylsynephrine's effects in the brain, as the beta-hydroxyl on both compounds precludes significant CNS penetration.

The para-hydroxyl group would decrease the LogP even further. In humans, one would not expect any central activity at all, unlike ephedrine in which central effects (be them mild) are observable in humans despite the beta-hydroxyl group. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00284-0075.pdf

[chromaffin]

The para-hydroxyl group would decrease the LogP even further. In humans, one would not expect any central activity at all, unlike ephedrine in which central effects (be them mild) are observable in humans despite the beta-hydroxyl group. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00284-0075.pdf

Indeed. Thanks for the study.

[PinchTheBear]

The author clearly states "isopropyl derivative".

Additionally in terms of synthesis - Adamski et al. 1975, demonstrated that isopropyloctopamine is sythesized by reacting a ketone with a hydrochloride salt of an alkanolamine in the presence of hydrogen/palladium on a charcoal catalyst.

This is unclear and can't be done in one step. Beginning with phenol, acylchloride (with another halogen terminus) with FeCl3 catalyst would produce the p-O-acyl and C-acyl derivative, from which you can remove the ester, add the substituted amine, reduce, and remove the quaternary amine in aqueous workup.

[INGENIUM]

This is unclear and can't be done in one step. Beginning with phenol, acylchloride (with another halogen terminus) with FeCl3 catalyst would produce the p-O-acyl and C-acyl derivative, from which you can remove the ester, add the substituted amine, reduce, and remove the quaternary amine in aqueous workup.

ihavetheweirdestboner.jpg

[Elliptical Envy]

ihavetheweirdestboner.jpg

Fgt

[TheFugitive]

I ingest Gamma Oryzanol

[DinoT1985]

First, methylsynephrine actually requires a larger dose to affect hemodynamic factors than synephrine (not for lipolysis, in which synephrine may as well be disregarded). Methylsynephrine is well-tolerated at doses of up to 120mg, whereas p-synephrine can be dangerous at much lower quantities.

Also, the study you cited elucidates the dangers of stacking p-synephrine with epehedrine and caffeine. While I still would not advocate co-administration of ephedrine, MS, and caffeine, MS' safety profile is far more favorable than p-synephrine and the likelihood of a toxic outcome is far lower.

I wouldn't be too concerned about ephedrine or methylsynephrine's effects in the brain, as the beta-hydroxyl on both compounds precludes significant CNS penetration.

No worries here on the brain barrier. I got the doses the other way around in regard to methylsyneprine and synephrine.

Would any other ingredient work along side MS in any synergetic way?

[PinchTheBear]

Would any other ingredient work along side MS in any synergetic way?

Caffeine.

[xR1pp3Rx]

i almost just bpought some just incase ... i chickened out

[allieninja]

NO HYPE/Neuron/PTB threads need to come with a translator for those of us who don't hold PHD's in pharmacology or organic chemistry.

^^^

[vanessa40]

Thank you so much for this thread. I have been taking an EC stack off and on for a couple of years and was looking to try something new. I saw on another site they were talking about Methyl-Synephrine. Someone there said it was ok to take along with Bronkaid and caffeine but that worried me a bit so i wanted to come here and see what everyone was saying..
So you are saying that caffeine is ok