Leangains diet question

[Tixx]

im about to start leangains to lean up, it kind of is similar to what ive been doing for quite a while, i just need to tweak my macros, but i usually have a light breakfast, medium lunch, and a heavy dinner so manipulating it to an 18hr fast shouldn't be a problem, however here is my question.
I have read that having a scoop of protein with some water for breakfast wont affect the fasting state, so the question is how many calories would break the cycle? say im 6'2 and 230lb.

for eg - my current morning consumption is 35g protein with water, a multi vitamin tablet and 3g of fish oil.

total calories around 160.

maybe the protein on its own might stay under the radar, but the multi and the fish oil might trip the process?
all those nutrients having to be digested etc.

The reason I ask is that a scoop of protein with water really helps until 1pm when its lunchtime.

[Mean_Bean]

I'm not a IF expert, but I believe it "really helps" because your body uses it for energy.
And if your body uses it for energy (the food you just ingested), then you're not fasting at all, are you.
You're breaking down what you just ate, and are no longer in a fasted state.

Maybe my logic is flawed. But maybe not.

[layarph]

There's no real magic to leangains; it's basically just a time schedule which works better for a lot of people in terms of satiation.

You're basically just fitting that 160 cal shake into your daily macros; it won't make or break anything.

[Miickk]

There's no real magic to leangains; it's basically just a time schedule which works better for a lot of people in terms of satiation.

You're basically just fitting that 160 cal shake into your daily macros; it won't make or break anything.

This. I don't understand this notion of a "fasted state" it just seems like Bro science. If a calorie deficit is created, one will loose fat regardless of meal timing. Similarly, one will put weight on when eating more calories than they burn, regardless of meal timing.

[MasterCode86]

This. I don't understand this notion of a "fasted state" it just seems like Bro science. If a calorie deficit is created, one will loose fat regardless of meal timing. Similarly, one will put weight on when eating more calories than they burn, regardless of meal timing.

Not for rats, at least:
www(dot)sciencedaily(dot)com/releases/2012/05/120517131703(dot)htm

[germaine07]

Layarph and Mickk are both correct. Your overall caloric consumption will dictate your weight loss.

However, with regards to your question, having a protein shake will break your fast and therefore you will not be doing Leangains.

[OrcaLifter]

Layarph and Mickk are both correct. Your overall caloric consumption will dictate your weight loss.

However, with regards to your question, having a protein shake will break your fast and therefore you will not be doing Leangains.

this. a protein shake would be breaking the fast.

[Thewix]

If you read leangains.com he talks about this and basically says the following:

Amino acids in the morning if you're exercising.

Protein shake if you absolutely have to.

If not, stay on the fast until lunch.


Also, I'm pretty I've read a few articles now where the IF way of eating results in greater HGH production. I've not read into them, because I just do IF just for the satiety.

[tdale]

martin says to take i think 15g BCAA's 15-30 mins pre workout because it is proven to be more beneficial than not having it, and says that 1/2 - 1 scoop of protein powder is also adequate if you dont have BCAA's, he says you should have your vitamin and fish oil with your first proper meal,. and this stuff is only relevant with the protocol of lifting before your 8 hour feed. if you workout inside that time it is irrelevant to have bcaas pre workout, hope this helped!

[tden99]

The idea with hormones is mostly increased grehlin sensitivity (really not proven though). Also increased satiety and better training. Some people prefer fasted state and he has found that the fast tends to be broken around 50cals. You can actually see the insulin response to various meals vs BCAAs on the site.

This is my justification for taking BCAAs preworkout but it does not prove it and I am hoping pug will enlighten me on this study and somoeone said they all were done on mice?
(by Layne Norton)
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/....full.pdf+html

[WonderPug]

BCAA supplementation is likely beneficial in those with deficient total daily protein intake because, after all, increasing AA intake is beneficial for those with deficient AA intake.

Any benefit relevant to this audience is, at best, speculative and, if such a benefit does exist, it's likely too small to matter in a real-world context.

[rob2093124]

There's no real magic to leangains; it's basically just a time schedule which works better for a lot of people in terms of satiation.

You're basically just fitting that 160 cal shake into your daily macros; it won't make or break anything.

^this
don't worry about breaking the fast. there's no special benefit from this protocol anyways. IIRC, it was started to counteract the "eat 6 times a day" and "don't eat carbs before bed" statements. it has helped with satiety and allows individuals to have a diet that's based more around their lifestyle than specific timing requirements. take that shake, since you said it helps you. eat when you want, and as much as you want at one sitting as long as you are hitting macros/micros needs by the end up the day

[tden99]

BCAA supplementation is likely beneficial in those with deficient total daily protein intake.

Any benefit relevant to this audience is, at best, speculative and, if such a benefit does exist, it's likely too small to matter in a real-world context.

Have you read that study by Layne? I enjoy it but don't understand why he didn't also do the training in a fasted state or even mention the state the training was done in.
I mean it seems like if you are leucine deficient during workouts this would cause a problem especially since I enjoy training fasted because I feel sick otherwise.

[layarph]

Have you read that study by Layne? I enjoy it but don't understand why he didn't also do the training in a fasted state or even mention the state the training was done in.
I mean it seems like if you are leucine deficient during workouts this would cause a problem especially since I enjoy training fasted because I feel sick otherwise.

I haven't read the study, but assuming a reasonably regular meal intake was ingested (within the 24 hours before), plasma BCAA levels (including leucine) would still be high enough not to worry.

[tden99]

I haven't read the study, but assuming a reasonably regular meal intake was ingested (within the 24 hours before), plasma BCAA levels (including leucine) would still be high enough not to worry.

Allright that's what I was wondering, didn't know how low leucine levels decreased during a 16 hour fast. I can only get satiated with IF. Yea that study is a bit extensive into the mTor pathway but my friend actually wanted to start a possible study on this path so I read this and looked at quite a bit about mTor.

[tden99]

will rep (on recharge)

[WonderPug]

Looking at actue reactions sans the context of long-term endpoints is generally a recipe for absurd and useless micromanagement.

[Tixx]

some great responses there guys, thanks !!!

[wher0001]

If you read leangains.com he talks about this and basically says the following:

Amino acids in the morning if you're exercising.

Protein shake if you absolutely have to.

If not, stay on the fast until lunch.


Also, I'm pretty I've read a few articles now where the IF way of eating results in greater HGH production. I've not read into them, because I just do IF just for the satiety.

Nørrelund H, Nair KS, Jørgensen JO, Christiansen JS, Møller N.Diabetes. The protein-retaining effects
of growth hormone during fasting involve inhibition of muscle-protein breakdown. 2001
Jan;50(1):96-104.

[wher0001]

Nørrelund H, Nair KS, Jørgensen JO, Christiansen JS, Møller N.Diabetes. The protein-retaining effects
of growth hormone during fasting involve inhibition of muscle-protein breakdown. 2001
Jan;50(1):96-104.

Search for: Anti Aging Research–Fasting Yes, Human Growth Hormone No

A study...

"The recent study also confirms earlier findings that human growth hormone (hGH) blood levels during the 24-hour fasting periods increased an average of 1,300 percent in women, and nearly 2,000 percent in men."

[n0useforaname]

Studied Leangains and IF for a couple weeks.. here is the cliff notes I've established:

1. It's not magic, and if you were to do 3 months of LG or 3 months of regular dieting/IIFYM/etc.. your weight, mirror results, etc.. if anything would be so minor that you couldn't tell.
2. It's more of a lifestyle than anything that allows you to eat big meals and feel more satisfied.
3. I did read where protein synthesis and other things were elevated higher on a fast, BUT.. even Martin says there is NO PROOF that it would do any good long term... soooo...
4. Being super anal about fasting for exactly 16 hours... eating for 8... taking BCAA's exactly 5 minutes before, etc.. is pointless and won't benefit you.
5. From what I've established the whole theory behind LG is that when you fast, you use all glucose for energy then your body turns to burning fat for a short period, so in theory if you compare it to a normal food intake, you still eat your typical macro/micro/cal intake.. but you just burn fats at some point, instead of just glucose.

Either way I've done it all in the past 4 months.. didn't see any benefit to one over the other.. personal preference IMO.