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  1. #1
    Registered User mrpringle's Avatar
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    Good intermediate routine for building mass

    Can anyone point me to a good intermediate routine for building mass. A four day routine would be ideal for my work / recreational lifestyle.

    Does anyone have an opinion on the PRRS training method?
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  2. #2
    Registered User JSNeves's Avatar
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    Lyle Mcdonald generic bulking routine
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  3. #3
    Registered User mrpringle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JSNeves View Post
    Lyle Mcdonald generic bulking routine
    Is this what you are referring to?
    http://jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-m...lking-routine/
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  4. #4
    Registered User trexmoad123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrpringle View Post
    Yep, that's it.

    Came in this thread to post the exact same routine. It's solid.
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  5. #5
    Registered User mrpringle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by trexmoad123 View Post
    Yep, that's it.

    Came in this thread to post the exact same routine. It's solid.
    Sounds good. I'll give it a try. At the moment I've just started PRRS routine, for the reason it was made sticky on the workout section and the information presented seemed logical. It would be nice if there was a collated list of proven routines catering to different levels of experience
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  6. #6
    Registered User Sinaku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by trexmoad123 View Post
    Yep, that's it.

    Came in this thread to post the exact same routine. It's solid.
    I agree with this comment but this man is an idiot.

    Please see this thread for evidence.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=145317021

    According to trexmoad Starting strength is a routine for mass. So is running since if u are bulking and eating above tdee u will gain size.

    Trexmoad - Is lyle mcdonalds BULKING routine considered a weight loss routine since if i do this in a deficit i will lose weight?

    Pls answer

    Please take anything this imbossile says with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by Sinaku5; 06-04-2012 at 06:54 AM.
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  7. #7
    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    If you are really intermediate, then 5 3 1 with the Boring But Big Three Month Challenge is a standout:


    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...onth_challenge

    5 3 1 is not a three month program. It is a lifetime approach to moving forward.

    To decide if you are really intermediate:

    1. If you have to ask, you might still be novice level.

    2. If you can't gain any more on "linear progression". Novice can usually increase the load say 5lbs every squat session, intermediate every week or two, more advanced is lucky to add a few pounds every month....or quarter.........

    3. Respectable performance at different levels for various basic barbell movements:

    http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...hStandards.htm
    Old Man Strength:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148519323&page=16

    Novices:

    http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/the-young-skinny-training-with-add-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-gaining-mass-and-strength/

    Beyond novice:

    Jim Wendler's 5 3 1(has bodybuilding templates)
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post
    I agree with this comment but this man is an idiot.

    Please see this thread for evidence.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=145317021

    According to trexmoad Starting strength is a routine for mass. So is running since if u are bulking and eating above tdee u will gain size.

    Trexmoad - Is lyle mcdonalds BULKING routine considered a weight loss routine since if i do this in a deficit i will lose weight?

    Pls answer

    Please take anything this imbossile says with a grain of salt.
    Lol, why are you always so angry ?

    If you use Lyle Mcdonalds bulking routine for weight loss, then yes.. it's a weight loss routine. Lyle himself says it's fine if you want to cut on it:

    4.1 I want to cut on this routine. How to?
    IMO, any training that works for bulking works for cutting but yes, you can/may need to cut the
    volume (and or frequency), but maintain intensity (weight on bar).
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  9. #9
    Registered User Sinaku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by trexmoad123 View Post
    Lol, why are you always so angry ?

    If you use Lyle Mcdonalds bulking routine for weight loss, then yes.. it's a weight loss routine. Lyle himself says it's fine if you want to cut on it:

    There u go being retarded again.

    Im not angry. I just don't want your stupid to spread.

    If someone creates a routine specifically for the purposes of bulking and states that it can be used for losing weight, preferably by altering the program and cutting volume that does not mean that the initial routine is a weight loss routine....just that it can be used while u are losing weight or even TO lose weight if it puts u in a deficit.

    The program however is a bulking routine. I thought the "generic bulking routine" part of the name would have gave that away to you.

    This is why i say take what this man says with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by Sinaku5; 06-04-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by jgreystoke View Post
    If you are really intermediate, then 5 3 1 with the Boring But Big Three Month Challenge is a standout:


    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...onth_challenge

    5 3 1 is not a three month program. It is a lifetime approach to moving forward.

    To decide if you are really intermediate:

    1. If you have to ask, you might still be novice level.

    2. If you can't gain any more on "linear progression". Novice can usually increase the load say 5lbs every squat session, intermediate every week or two, more advanced is lucky to add a few pounds every month....or quarter.........

    3. Respectable performance at different levels for various basic barbell movements:

    http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...hStandards.htm
    qft

    seriously OP. there's no point in jumping into a routine that doesn't fit your experience level or goals
    Goals:

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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post
    There u go being retarded again.

    Im not angry. I just don't want your stupid to spread.

    If someone creates a routine specifically for the purposes of bulking and states that it can be used for losing weight, preferably by altering the program and cutting volume that does not mean that the initial routine is a weight loss routine....just that it can be used while u are losing weight or even TO lose weight if it puts u in a deficit.

    The program however is a bulking routine. I thought the "generic bulking routine" part of the name would have gave that away to you.

    This is why i say take what this man says with a grain of salt.
    LOL, are you a retard bro?
    Last edited by watwut; 06-04-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post


    Please take anything this imbossile says with a grain of salt.
    You point would of been a little stronger with the correct spelling of imbecile.
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  13. #13
    Registered User Sinaku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    LOL, are you a retard bro?
    Please explain why u asked this.

    I will assume that the reason you asked it is because you are unable to comprehend that the way you use something does not change what its meant for (until you inform me that you meant otherwise).

    Assuming that you are asking me if I am retarded because I stated that using Lyle Mcdonald's generic BULKING routine while in a deficit does not make it a cutting routine simply because you decided to be in a deficit while using it, then let me propose a similar analogy;

    If I used a spoon to cut my steak does that somehow change what the item I am using to cut my steak is? Is my spoon now a knife, because I used it to accomplish what a knife would?

    Answer: No, it doesn't. It simply means I used a spoon to cut steak. It didn't work optimally, but it worked nonetheless.

    Using Lyle Mcdonald's generic BULKING routine while cutting, or even to cut, does not change the designation of the program from a bulking to cutting routine (especially considering the fact that Lyle actually recommends revising the program a bit while cutting).

    It just means that you are using a routine that is meant for bulking to cut.

    If you don't understand that analogy please let me know and I can try to explain it further. I don't expect you to anyways.
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  14. #14
    Registered User Sinaku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    You point would of been a little stronger with the correct spelling of imbecile.
    "You" point would have been a little stronger with correct grammar.
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post
    "You" point would have been a little stronger with correct grammar.
    True. I blame my iphone for not correcting it.
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    You point would of been a little stronger with the correct spelling of imbecile.
    This ^^

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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post
    Please explain why u asked this.
    You essentially asked if you can cut on Lyle Mcdonalds bulking routine.. even Lyle himself says that you can. Cutting is about diet, not really routine.. so yes essentially any program is a cutting program, or bulking program. You are literally arguing about definitions. Don't even get me started on that SS thread, you're a ****ing idiot.. and this is coming from someone who thinks SS sucks balls.
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    Thanks for the neg btw sinaku, LOL you butt hurt?
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    You essentially asked if you can cut on Lyle Mcdonalds bulking routine.. even Lyle himself says that you can. Cutting is about diet, not really routine.. so yes essentially any program is a cutting program, or bulking program. You are literally arguing about definitions. Don't even get me started on that SS thread, you're a ****ing idiot.. and this is coming from someone who thinks SS sucks balls.
    Are you putting words in my mouth? Not building a good rep for yourself here...

    Where did I ask if one can cut on Lyle Mcdonalds routine?

    Here is what I said:

    Is lyle mcdonalds BULKING routine considered a weight loss routine since if i do this in a deficit i will lose weight?

    As I quoted above, I actually stated that one can use Lyle McDonald's routine to cut. You can use any routine to cut. Is that what you're trying to argue? Because I actually agreed with you.

    You say I am arguing definitions? I would like you to tell that to your teacher/professor next time you take a scantron test with pen.

    Lyle Mcdonald's routine is a bulking routine. That means that it is a routine that is best used for bulking. Its not starting strength and its not Gethin's 12 week trainer. It is a bulking routine.

    Lets use the spoon analogy again;

    I ask you if I can use your spoon to cut my steak. You say yes. I then use your spoon to cut my steak and claim that I am cutting my steak with a knife because I am using it in the way that I would use a knife even though it is clearly a spoon.

    The object at hand does not change depending on how you use it. A spoon does not change into a knife because I use it as a knife and a bulking routine does not turn into a cutting routine because I use it as I would a cutting routine (i.e. while I'm cutting). The spoon stays a spoon the whole time; the bulking routine stays a bulking routine the whole time.

    If you can not grasp this concept then I believe you will fail many scantron tests in life; you and trexmoad both.

    Scantron tests require a number 2 pencil. Using a pen as a pencil to complete the scantron tests does not magically change the composition of the pen to that of a number two pencil (I have a feeling that you didn't understand what I meant so I elaborated on it).
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    Thanks for the neg btw sinaku
    You're welcome.

    you butt hurt?
    No.
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post
    I ask you if I can use your spoon to cut my steak. You say yes. I then use your spoon to cut my steak and claim that I am cutting my steak with a knife because I am using it in the way that I would use a knife even though it is clearly a spoon.
    You're literally arguing meaningless things. In the end, the steak would still be cut, no? Stop de-railing threads because you're still angry about the last one. I usually never neg people, but I think you just earned yourself one..
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    Originally Posted by trexmoad123 View Post
    You're literally arguing meaningless things. In the end, the steak would still be cut, no? Stop de-railing threads because you're still angry about the last one. I usually never neg people, but I think you just earned yourself one..
    I am not angry.

    Meaningless things? The steak would be cut, yes, the scantron test would be failed.

    My point - what you claim is not true.

    Your advice for hypertrophy/significant mass gains is moronic.

    Your misleading/incorrect advice is far from meaningless.
    Last edited by Sinaku5; 06-04-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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    Try a calorie surplus
    The more that you read, the more things you'll know.
    The more that you learn, the more places you'll go.

    Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149723023
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post
    I am not angry.

    Meaningless things? The steak would be cut, yes, the scantron test would be failed.

    My point - what you claim is not true.

    Your advice for hypertrophy/significant mass gains (to run and do starting strength) is moronic.

    Your misleading/incorrect advice is far from meaningless.
    The scantron test analogy is stupid. It clearly states you need a pencil, not a pen. You CANNOT complete it with a pen for it to be 'valid', and yet you can cut a steak with a spoon, or cut with a bulking routine.

    My advice was never for someone who's goal is mass, to do starting strength. Rather, that you can get quite big from it.. where as you said you will gain VERY little size from it.
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    Originally Posted by trexmoad123 View Post
    The scantron test analogy is stupid. It clearly states you need a pencil, not a pen. You CANNOT complete it with a pen for it to be 'valid', and yet you can cut a steak with a spoon, or cut with a bulking routine.
    You now have presented a strawman argument of which I have no interest in arguing (whether or not the test would be valid). Congratulations.

    Back to the issue presented - the scantron test is perfect.

    If you use a pen to complete the job of a pencil it does not follow that the pen magically becomes the pencil. It may or may not work on the scantron; that is not the issue.

    In the spoon example, we clearly see how it may work, just less than optimal - however the spoon, still, does not become a knife.

    You stated that starting strength is a program for mass. It is a program for strength. It may gain size, however that does not mean that it is a routine for gaining mass. To tout it as such is incorrect. When comparing starting STRENGTH to a routine specifically designed for mass gains, we can easily see how starting strength is less than optimal for size gains when compared to the routine developed for mass gains - just like the spoon and knife analogy.

    You claimed that the generic bulking routine was a cutting routine. It is not for all the reasons described above.
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    Originally Posted by Sinaku5 View Post

    You stated that starting strength is a program for mass. It is a program for strength. It may gain size, however that does not mean that it is a routine for gaining mass. To tout it as such is incorrect. When comparing starting STRENGTH to a routine specifically designed for mass gains, we can easily see how starting strength is less than optimal for size gains when compared to the routine developed for mass gains - just like the spoon and knife analogy.

    You claimed that the generic bulking routine was a cutting routine. It is not for all the reasons described above.
    1) I said starting strength is a strength and mass routine, as it will give you strength and mass.

    2) I said (or implied) that the bulking routine CAN be used as a cutting routine, even lyle says this. Are you going to argue with him now?
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    Not sure what is worse. The argument you two are having or the fact that I have read the whole thing. You two seem to agree on McDonald's routine being a good intermediate program, which I believe was the actual question. Might be time to move on. Now hug it out and be done with it.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Not sure what is worse. The argument you two are having or the fact that I have read the whole thing. You two seem to agree on McDonald's routine being a good intermediate program, which I believe was the actual question. Might be time to move on. Now hug it out.
    /shrug.. this guy is stalking my posts
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Not sure what is worse. The argument you two are having or the fact that I have read the whole thing. You two seem to agree on McDonald's routine being a good intermediate program, which I believe was the actual question. Might be time to move on. Now hug it out and be done with it.
    Back to the actual question it looks like a solid routine. Lyle knows his stuff.
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    Originally Posted by dday39 View Post
    qft

    seriously OP. there's no point in jumping into a routine that doesn't fit your experience level or goals
    I've been training for ~6 years. Of course I didn't know what I was doing for the first year or two.
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