Nut Misc "Do You Even Lift?" Thread Part II

[DaBubzy]

You didn't get your first work set off the ground? Wut?

exactly. warmed up with 275 (3) 315(1) 335(1) pretty damn easy. 385 wouldnt budge. got it for 2 the last time, 1.5 the time before that (both PRs and up from 365x3).

idk, shyts wierd.

@Iceman: thats exactly what im gonna do. Any advice on how long I should wait until trying it again? Could do monday or stick to thursday like usual. This weekend is different, i'm only getting shyt drunk one night instead of 3 because i'm going home, so I should be in better shape recovery wise.


yes i'm in college, yes i binge drink, yes its awesome

and yes i realize it hinders progress but #YOLO

[greekmanman]

I can do one armed dumbbell rows on a bench which removes the ability to use leg or hip drive using the heaviest dumbbells (#110s) in my gym for at least 20+ rep sets. I've just generally always found rowing to be stronger than pullups or chinups and often assume this is the case with many. Even using super strict form I don't find rowing 225 to be particularly taxing and there is no way I could do a chinup from a dead hang with 90 lbs, so for me this experiment isn't going to be ideal on comparing some of these lifts.

aliens

[Iceman1800]

exactly. warmed up with 275 (3) 315(1) 335(1) pretty damn easy. 385 wouldnt budge. got it for 2 the last time, 1.5 the time before that (both PRs and up from 365x3).

idk, shyts wierd.

@Iceman: thats exactly what im gonna do. Any advice on how long I should wait until trying it again? Could do monday or stick to thursday like usual. This weekend is different, i'm only getting shyt drunk one night instead of 3 because i'm going home, so I should be in better shape recovery wise.


yes i'm in college, yes i binge drink, yes its awesome

and yes i realize it hinders progress but #YOLO

I would just do it again on your regular deadlift day.

[joelash302]

I'm absolutely amazed that after only a week off I have crippling doms in my legs from a heavy squat day. Getting older is bullsht.

[DaBubzy]

I'm absolutely amazed that after only a week off I have crippling doms in my legs from a heavy squat day. Getting older is bullsht.

lol happened to me this summer and i'm only 21. that first week back after 10 days off was the worst of the worst ever

[Iceman1800]

I'm absolutely amazed that after only a week off I have crippling doms in my legs from a heavy squat day. Getting older is bullsht.

I turn 49 in two months. I have a daughter older than you. You think you're old? My goodness.....

[joelash302]

I turn 49 in two months. I have a daughter older than you. You think you're old? My goodness.....

Old-er, not old. I'll feel old with the onset of the first silver pube. Right now I'm somewhere between "carpe diem" and "where's my liniment". Oh wait it's yolo now. OK maybe I do feel a little old.

[PerpetualMotion]

lol @ comparing horizontal and vertical pulls. Two different beasts. To think being good at one means being good at the other is ****ing wack.

I love his EMG work but I get miffed at the weight comparisons...

Go down to "What If?" on the article and he mentions that he was pissed at himself for not going heavy on rack pulls but instead doing 405 for 12 reps. I think that's decent for 12 reps. Of course, we don't know where the pins were positioned, so it's harder to judge but it's n=1, so there will be a lot of limitations.

[JasonDB]

lol @ comparing horizontal and vertical pulls. Two different beasts. To think being good at one means being good at the other is ****ing wack.



Go down to "What If?" on the article and he mentions that he was pissed at himself for not going heavy on rack pulls but instead doing 405 for 12 reps. I think that's decent for 12 reps. Of course, we don't know where the pins were positioned, so it's harder to judge but it's n=1, so there will be a lot of limitations.

Very true on the limitations still it is very interesting data... I've read the entire series. I did see the part in the notes and wish he had gone heavier on the rack pulls so I could see the numbers. I am assuming that he has the pins pretty high, which is generally what one does when doing rack pulls for back hypertrophy rather than a deadlift accessory.

[MarkVI]

Very true on the limitations still it is very interesting data... I've read the entire series. I did see the part in the notes and wish he had gone heavier on the rack pulls so I could see the numbers. I am assuming that he has the pins pretty high, which is generally what one does when doing rack pulls for back hypertrophy rather than a deadlift accessory.

Need to pick your brain on this....rack pulls, I have tried them 2or 3 times in the last 6 weeks and now hate them, they do not feel ok, they feel borderline dangerous tbh. I can pull 545 for a triple strapless no problem from the ground, but even 315 for a rack pull feels notsogoodman and I can only do a few before it is apparent I need to stop....also don't feel them like I think I should...

Suggestions? They are part of PHAT so I want to use them, just substituting tbar rows for them.

[JasonDB]

Need to pick your brain on this....rack pulls, I have tried them 2or 3 times in the last 6 weeks and now hate them, they do not feel ok, they feel borderline dangerous tbh. I can pull 545 for a triple strapless no problem from the ground, but even 315 for a rack pull feels notsogoodman and I can only do a few before it is apparent I need to stop....also don't feel them like I think I should...

Suggestions? They are part of PHAT so I want to use them, just substituting tbar rows for them.

Describe your setup on them or give us a video. Specifically what doesn't feel right on them?

[ErickStevens]

I hate rack pulls. Block pulls FTW.

[MarkVI]

Describe your setup on them or give us a video. Specifically what doesn't feel right on them?

might the able to get a video today if I try them - pins @ knees or I try pins 2-3 inches below knees, bar on pins in a power rack. I go, grab the bar and essentially try to do a deadlift. Back straight, form is *textbook*

It doesn't feel right mainly in my lower back, as well as It feels like I'm not getting a lot of work out of them though that could be due to reduced TUT and me not ever trying very heavy weight

I hate rack pulls. Block pulls FTW.

What would the difference be? Google tells me one thing but Idunnowutimdoing

[JasonDB]

might the able to get a video today if I try them - pins @ knees or I try pins 2-3 inches below knees, bar on pins in a power rack. I go, grab the bar and essentially try to do a deadlift. Back straight, form is *textbook*

It doesn't feel right mainly in my lower back, as well as It feels like I'm not getting a lot of work out of them though that could be due to reduced TUT and me not ever trying very heavy weight

What would the difference be? Google tells me one thing but Idunnowutimdoing

If doing them for back hypertrophy the bar needs to be just above the knee, so that you do not have to bend over as far forward as you do to clear the knee on a deadlift and you should be able to handle more weight than you deadlift. This will do **** all as a deadlift accessory but it works well for overall back hypertrophy.

[Iceman1800]

IMO, rack pulls are sport specific. Useless for powerlifting but great for strongman. I do rack pulls with the bar between 14-18" off the floor since that carries over to the majority of strongman events.

[MarkVI]

If doing them for back hypertrophy the bar needs to be just above the knee, so that you do not have to bend over as far forward as you do to clear the knee on a deadlift and you should be able to handle more weight than you deadlift. This will do **** all as a deadlift accessory but it works well for overall back hypertrophy.

Will try today and report back

[ZMan45]

FWIW, I was doing sets of 5 with a 65 DB between my legs for full ROM chins a few months back and can rep out I'm guessing over 15 with BW. Yet, I can't row worth two $hits. I'm doing sloppy pendlay rows for sets of 5 with 215.

[Iceman1800]

If doing them for back hypertrophy the bar needs to be just above the knee, so that you do not have to bend over as far forward as you do to clear the knee on a deadlift and you should be able to handle more weight than you deadlift. This will do **** all as a deadlift accessory but it works well for overall back hypertrophy.

I'll agree as long as its not turned into a 1/4 squat. I think that's the main reason people don't see a carryover to their full deadlift, they bend the knees to much making it more of a squat than a pull.

[MiscDemeanor]

I hate rack pulls. Block pulls FTW.

Do these help with lockout? Kind of like how deficit deads help with the initial pull? And are these typically done in the sumo stance? TIA

[ErickStevens]

Do these help with lockout? Kind of like how deficit deads help with the initial pull? And are these typically done in the sumo stance? TIA

I like block pulls because they resemble an actual deadlift. With a rack pull, as soon as you set the bar down it rattles all around and your starting position for the next rep gets changed. With block pulls the weight hits the ground like a DL. It helps with lockout but I'd still do them in a conventional stance, just to overload the spinal erectors.

[MiscDemeanor]

Noice. Thanks Eric! I just looked up a vid and noticed the guy was in a sumo stance so just wondering. Guess they can be done either way

[snrygo]

Noice. Thanks Eric! I just looked up a vid and noticed the guy was in a sumo stance so just wondering. Guess they can be done either way

i believe the first word in that phrase should be noce, not noice.

[PerpetualMotion]

Do these help with lockout? Kind of like how deficit deads help with the initial pull? And are these typically done in the sumo stance? TIA

For what it's worth, a lot of people have reported bad carryover the closer the bar is to the knees. While I haven't tried it myself, apparently the mid-shin rack pull is where it's at because it puts you in a poor position, less leg drive, and it resembles a regular deadlift. Just tossing out some stuff I came across.

I've done just below the knee rack pulls (as per Maximum Strength) and it was nice to pull some heavy weights but I don't think it really did anything for my deadlift. Hard to say that objectively when there are so many factors.

i believe the first word in that phrase should be noce, not noice.

**** no, mang. I say noice all the time.

[snrygo]

For what it's worth, a lot of people have reported bad carryover the closer the bar is to the knees. While I haven't tried it myself, apparently the mid-shin rack pull is where it's at because it puts you in a poor position, less leg drive, and it resembles a regular deadlift. Just tossing out some stuff I came across.

I've done just below the knee rack pulls (as per Maximum Strength) and it was nice to pull some heavy weights but I don't think it really did anything for my deadlift. Hard to say that objectively when there are so many factors.



**** no, mang. I say noice all the time.

it was a reference to a mike 201011 thread

[PerpetualMotion]

it was a reference to a mike 201011 thread

Don't reference him or his ****ty threads. ******* lifts less than me, which says something bad about him.

[JasonDB]

I'll agree as long as its not turned into a 1/4 squat. I think that's the main reason people don't see a carryover to their full deadlift, they bend the knees to much making it more of a squat than a pull.

Agreed, there should be a little knee bend off the pins but the knees need to lock fast and the posterior chain need to be getting it moving right off the pins with most of the stress on the lats, traps & spinal erectors once it starts moving. Also do NOT hyperextend.

Again this is for people using it as a bodybuilding back hypertrophy movement not for carryover into other lifts or athletic functions. The bar path & kinetic chain is completely different from your deadlift lockout and the carryover will be poor to zero.

For what it's worth, a lot of people have reported bad carryover the closer the bar is to the knees. While I haven't tried it myself, apparently the mid-shin rack pull is where it's at because it puts you in a poor position, less leg drive, and it resembles a regular deadlift. Just tossing out some stuff I came across.

I've done just below the knee rack pulls (as per Maximum Strength) and it was nice to pull some heavy weights but I don't think it really did anything for my deadlift. Hard to say that objectively when there are so many factors.



**** no, mang. I say noice all the time.

Right it is important to remember that rack pulls are done in different ways for different purposes and people should not confuse them. Using them as a deadlift accessory is very specific to the individual's needs in terms of where the pins are set and isn't useful for every puller.

[JasonDB]

Jason, I use the leg press at the end of my leg days for some pump work. Recently I've felt increased pressure 10 or so minutes post leg pressing in my knees and the pressure goes away if I extend my legs, walk or jog. Is the pressure blood buildup due to a "pump" or strain on the joint?

Does it feel like muscles or connective tissue near the knee or the actual knee itself? What type of footing are you using on the leg press?

[brendbro]

hang on, i thought rack pulls were supposed to be a great assistance exercise for deadlift lockouts? i realise what jason is saying, that different styles are suited for different purposes, but...

rack pulls are sport specific. Useless for powerlifting

que?

[hcoyle545]

uh aware me on why Mike2011100220102101 is getting hate? Been off/on these forums lately so miss most drama

[Iceman1800]

hang on, i thought rack pulls were supposed to be a great assistance exercise for deadlift lockouts? i realise what jason is saying, that different styles are suited for different purposes, but...



que?

because the majority of powerlifters doing rack pulls make them more of a 1/4 squat. They are no where near the same lockout position in a rack pull as they are in a regular deadlift.