Creatine broken down

[chipevans22]

I swear I have answered at least 10 posts in two days on creatine so I decided to do some research.

1. Are There Any Side Effects of Creatine?
There have been a number of reported side effects such as stomach problems, muscle cramping, dehydration, and increased risk of muscle strains/pulls. There has also been concern that short and/or long-term creatine supplementation may increase renal (kidney) stress.

One research group suggested that creatine supplementation may increase an individuals risk to developing anterior compartment syndrome. A number of studies have indicated that creatine is not associated with any of these reported problems nor increase the likelihood of development of ACS. There is recent evidence that creatine may lessen heat stress and reduce the susceptibility to musculoskeletal injuries.
Safety read - (taken from Shadars Informative links credit him) http://broscience.com/broscience-com...tine-safe.html

Hair Loss
This is a touchy subject. Does creatine cause hair loss? Normal creatine level in the body is generally safe and it can not harm and can not cause unwanted side effects. The amount and duration of creatine that an individual consumes should be considered. Higher doses of creatine may impose risks, such as hair loss. Studies in The University of Maryland have reported that there is no significant creatine hair loss for those who used it less than 6 months time. I will be doing more research, there are a lot of conflicting studies



2. What is the Best Form of Creatine to Take?
Nearly all studies on creatine supplementation have evaluated pharmacological grade creatine monohydrate in powder form.

Since creatine has become a popular supplement, there are a number of different forms of creatine that have been marketed.. Many of these forms of creatine claim to be better than CREATINE MONOHYDRATE. However, no data indicates that any of these forms of creatine increases creatine uptake to the muscle better than creatine monohydrate.

Monohydrate = less breakdown in the stomach, greater intestinal absorption, faster absorption in the blood, and/or greater muscle uptake.

(CREATINE MONO VS. CREATINE ETHYL ESTER) http://buildingaleanbody.com/2011/09...one-is-better/

3. How Much?
Research has shown that the most rapid way to increase muscle creatine stores is to follow the loading method, by taking 0.3 grams/kg/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 to 7 days (e.g., 5 grams taken four times per day). Studies show that this rate can increase muscle creatine. Once muscle creatine stores are saturated, studies indicate that you only need to take 3 TO 5 GRAMS of creatine monohydrate per day in order to maintain elevated creatine stores.

Other study information - credit NO HYPE

Originally Posted by NO HYPE
Is there truly a need for daily creatine supplementation? --> I say, no way.

Here's a case study which indicated that daily creatine supplementation was not needed to maintain skeletal muscle PCr saturation during a 30-day washout.... yes, 30-days. The study was repeated twice.

What was even more impressive, was that PCr levels increased 45% after the first bout (20-g for 5-days), and only 22% of that increase was lost out of a 30-day time-frame.... that's still 23% higher than the pre-supplementational values. This would suggest that daily creatine supplementation appears to only keep serum levels from being depleted.

If PCr levels remain elevated from creatine supplementation for a significant duration of time, even when not supplementing creatine.... then I strongly feel that creatine can easily be ingested on workout days only, without any depletion of skeletal muscle PCr whatsoever.

4.Take Creatine Alone or With Other Nutrients?
Creatine uptake into the muscle has been reported to be sodium dependent and mediated by insulin. This means that taking creatine with large amounts of glucose (e.g., 80 to 100 grams) or carbohydrate/protein (e.g., 50 to 80 grams of carbohydrate with 30 to 50 grams of protein), which is known to increase blood insulin levels, may be an effective way to enhance creatine uptake unless threshold is already met.
(CREATINE AND INSULIN) http://www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.c...e-insulin.html
(CREATINE AND CAFFEINE FAQ) https://www.illpumpyouup.com/article...n-creatine.htm
http://www.livestrong.com/article/53...ne-absorption/

5. Cycle Creatine?
There is no evidence that cycling on and off creatine is more or less effective than loading and maintaining creatine.

6. Do children or young teens need to take creatine?
Although there has been no indication that creatine can been harmful for young teens, IT IS NOT NEEDED. For a good start to working out a teen should first learn to access his macro nutrients/diet as well a Whey Protein.

7. Muscle or water?
Creatine supplementation typically promotes gains in body mass and/or fat free mass. Some have suggested that because the gains are fairly rapid, that the gains must be fluid retention.

Most studies that have evaluated the effects of creatine supplementation on fluid retention and body composition indicate that although total body water increases, the increase appears to be proportional to the weight gained. Muscle is about 73% water. Therefore, if someone gained 10 pounds of muscle, 7.3 pounds of the weight gain would be water.

Numerous studies report that long-term creatine increases fat free mass without an increase in the percent of total body water.


MORE INFO:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/crea...-answered.html

MY CREATINE SUGGESTION:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/all/creatine.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/all/creatine.html (I like to stack CL products just because they are a solid company)

[TheDesire]

Sticky requested.

[Socalchoirboy]

I like how you say that creatine is not needed for teenagers; it is also not needed for adults.


All supplements are unneccessary; they only complement your training routine and diet.
An increase in phosphorylation of ADP to ATP in any individual would be beneficial to their workout.

[chipevans22]

Sticky requested.

thanks

[chipevans22]

I like how you say that creatine is not needed for teenagers; it is also not needed for adults.


All supplements are unneccessary; they only complement your training routine and diet.
An increase in phosphorylation of ADP to ATP in any individual would be beneficial to their workout.

Obviously all supplements are unneccessary. And I totally agree with what you are saying. I know it doesn't hurt for teenagers, but really I just think its morally better for them to be more worried about what they are eating then what they are supplementing so they have a good base.

[DASBUNKER]

or... http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/crea...-answered.html

[chipevans22]

or... http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/crea...-answered.html

and since there are so many question about creatine on this forum i figured most can't find it. Hey, I'm not trying to be superman here I'm only trying to clear up some late confusion

[TimMason91]

Good post OP.

[chipevans22]

Good post OP.

Thanks man

[DASBUNKER]

and since there are so many question about creatine on this forum i figured most can't find it. Hey, I'm not trying to be superman here I'm only trying to clear up some late confusion

Just covering some aspects you might have missed

This won't stop people from making the same threads though.

[chipevans22]

Just covering some aspects you might have missed

oh alright haha, thanks. I thought you were going for "this is pointless" type of thing.

[chipevans22]

This won't stop people from making the same threads though.

fortunately i can just throw them a link or maybe just direct them to a (sticky?)

[chipevans22]

added some informative links

[chipevans22]

Bump

[NO HYPE]

There has also been concern that short and/or long-term creatine supplementation may increase renal (kidney) stress.

Unless the individual suffers from a pre-existing kidney disorder, creatine supplementation poses no threat to renal function.

It has been documented within the literature that creatine administration in patients with renal dysfunction has initiated interstitial nephritis [1], decrements in glomerular filtration rates [2] and significant elevations in guanidinovaleric and argininic acid concentrations, as well as elevated guanidinosuccinate and urea concentrations [3].

[1] N Engl J Med 1999; 340:814-815 March 11, 1999
Interstitial Nephritis in a Patient Taking Creatine

[2] Med Sci Sports Exerc. Tarnopolsky, Mark A et al. (2000) ISSN: 0195-9131
The physiological and health effects of oral creatine supplementation

[3] Nephrol Dial Transplant. Taes YE et al. (2008) Apr;23(4):1330-5. Epub 2007 Nov 29.
Guanidino compounds after creatine supplementation in renal failure patients and their relation to inflammatory status

2. What is the Best Form of Creatine to Take?

You won't get a definitive answer until all forms have been evaluated however, with the exception of CEE and liquid creatine, the forms available today offer the same benefits as monohydrate with improved physiochemical properties.

Monohydrate = less breakdown in the stomach, greater intestinal absorption, faster absorption in the blood, and/or greater muscle uptake.

This is merely an assumption, and there are plausible reasons to believe otherwise.

3. How Much?
Once muscle creatine stores are saturated, studies indicate that you only need to take 3 TO 5 GRAMS of creatine monohydrate per day in order to maintain elevated creatine stores.

This is false. Once intramuscular PCr concentrations have reached their maximal threshold, it takes over a month for values to return to baseline.... and that's in the [absence] of creatine supplementation.

Is there truly a need for daily creatine supplementation? --> I say, no way.

Here's a case study which indicated that daily creatine supplementation was not needed to maintain skeletal muscle PCr saturation during a 30-day washout.... yes, 30-days. The study was repeated twice.

What was even more impressive, was that PCr levels increased 45% after the first bout (20-g for 5-days), and only 22% of that increase was lost out of a 30-day time-frame.... that's still 23% higher than the pre-supplementational values. This would suggest that daily creatine supplementation appears to only keep serum levels from being depleted.

If PCr levels remain elevated from creatine supplementation for a significant duration of time, even when not supplementing creatine.... then I strongly feel that creatine can easily be ingested on workout days only, without any depletion of skeletal muscle PCr whatsoever.

4.Take Creatine Alone or With Other Nutrients?
Creatine uptake into the muscle has been reported to be sodium dependent and mediated by insulin. This means that taking creatine with large amounts of glucose (e.g., 80 to 100 grams) or carbohydrate/protein (e.g., 50 to 80 grams of carbohydrate with 30 to 50 grams of protein), which is known to increase blood insulin levels, may be an effective way to enhance creatine uptake.

Again, false. Once you are saturated, carbs and/or glucose do nothing to increase intramuscular PCr's threshold.

[chipevans22]

Unless the individual suffers from a pre-existing kidney disorder, creatine supplementation poses no threat to renal function..

-------"A number of studies have indicated that creatine is not associated with any of these reported problems nor increase the likelihood of development of ACS."

This is false. Once intramuscular PCr concentrations have reached their maximal threshold, it takes over a month for values to return to baseline.... and that's in the [absence] of creatine supplementation...

Thanks for the update included your findings if you don't mind

Again, false. Once you are saturated, carbs and/or glucose do nothing to increase intramuscular PCr's threshold.

Not a recent study, but this is what i found
Thats why I stated MAY help. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/275/6/E974.full

[nihaza]

Creatine Ethyl Estгer -CEE
1.CEE is hydrolysed to the breakdown product creatinine after it has been absorbed from the digestive system. Child & Tallon (2004) studied the conversion of creatine to creatinine in the stomach. They compared three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic solutions in order to mimic the stomach conditions. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and creatinine. After 30 minutes incubation only 62-73% of the initial CEE was left from the CEE products, whereas more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the monohydrate product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120 minutes there had been even further degredation of the CEE, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from monohydrate.
CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate because of increased solubility and stability. However it appears that the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence CEE is inferior to creatine monohydrate as a source of free creatine.

CEE offers no advantage over creatine monohydrate which has a bioavailability of nearly 100%, i.e. nearly all is absorbed. Infact if hydrolysis of CEE is less than 99% then it must be inferior to monohydrate, and in the case of hydrolysis there are no circumstances in which it could be better than the monohydrate in increasing tissue creatine levels.

2.Creatine Ethyl Estгer is not a true covalently bonded ester
This means that it is infact a scam with the compound ionising in solution to free creatine, as does the monohydrate and all salts of creatine. In this case Creatine Ethyl Estгer would again represent no advantage over creatine monohydrate, except to the seller who can double the price.A simple water solvation test would answer whether or not it was a covalent or ionisable derivative of creatine, a short experiment taking less than an hour! Investigation of whether CEE is a competitive or non-competitive inhibitor of creatine kinase would take just 2-3 hours. If either of these occurred then clearly CEE must be investigated in at least two species to investigate lethality and potential organ damage

3.Creatine Ethyl Estгer and Creatine Kinase
Creatine Ethyl Estгer is claimed to be a true covalently bonded ester and is absorbed into blood as a molecule wholly intact. It is claimed that this is the reason why Creatine Ethyl Estгer is superior to monohydrate. However, inside cells Creatine Ethyl Estгer cannot be hydrolysed by the enzyme creatine kinase (CK - which catalyses free creatine) and may infact inhibit the enzyme. Therefore in theory, this would make Creatine Ethyl Estгer toxic to all organs and tissues which contain CK, including brain, heart and muscle, which it clearly isn't as there have been no reported deaths or even ill health.

4.
CEE is young, and was launched only as few years ago, and from day one the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had concerns. One of the original companies (MRI) who produced CEE HCl in 2004 contacted the FDA for approval (MRI 2004), and back then they (the FDA) noted that CEE HCl doesn't really fit into the definition of a 'supplement' as a 'dietary ingredient' (FDA 2004). They also noted concerns as to the design of trials for CEE HCl which failed to provide data showing that creatine levels are increasing as CEE dissociates and diffuses from the gut into the blood, which did not clearly demonstrate the relative concentration of CEE, creatine, and ethanol between the gut and blood especially during the first three hours after intake (ChemPharma Int'l). It was unclear how creatinine levels in the urine could be detected yet there were no recorded measurements for creatine in the blood during the first 190 minutes of the experiment. The FDA were concerned about the validity of the conclusion that CEE HCl was rapidly absorbed and dissociated into creatine and ethanol before being available to the tissues. In addition, it was noted that the long term toxicological effects of doses higher than three grams per day are unknown.

5.CEE HCl is an acid, so when in contact with the teeth, it is likely to case dental erosion. Obviously this only refers to the powder version of CEE HCl, so to avoid this stick to creatine monohydrate or capsule forms of CEE.

6.Price
CEE is more expensive to buy that creatine monohydrate; considerably more. However to produce it, there is little difference.

[Venjinze]

I love these threads, you want to create a post that is supposed to prevent people from asking the same redundant questions over and over?

Here's some news, this is a public forum, people can post whatever they want. People come here for advice and get discouraged when the children that live on these forums post nonsensical crap that only the other trolls get a kick out of.

If you find it annoying that you see the same creatine related questions day in and day out - then don't read them.

Half the **** posted on here is conjecture or personal anecdotes anyways.

If your goal is for reputation points on these unmoderated forums, you need to rethink things my friend.

[bhughes5610]

Great post, thanks

[chipevans22]

I love these threads, you want to create a post that is supposed to prevent people from asking the same redundant questions over and over?

Here's some news, this is a public forum, people can post whatever they want. People come here for advice and get discouraged when the children that live on these forums post nonsensical crap that only the other trolls get a kick out of.

If you find it annoying that you see the same creatine related questions day in and day out - then don't read them.

Half the **** posted on here is conjecture or personal anecdotes anyways.

If your goal is for reputation points on these unmoderated forums, you need to rethink things my friend.

Never stated I hate answering them did I? Did I say I was attempting to stop posts ? No. Don't assume. I'm providing another source for information. Sorry for that

[NO HYPE]

Not a recent study, but this is what i found
Thats why I stated MAY help. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/275/6/E974.full

Subjects were not supplementing creatine prior to the study, so their intramuscular PCr values were not at their physiological threshold.

[chipevans22]

Subjects were not supplementing creatine prior to the study, so their intramuscular PCr values were not at their physiological threshold.

Oh ok gotcha, thank you for the correction! Good to know I edited the section. So I'm correct in saying that it is helpful unless their threshold has been met?

[chipevans22]

any chance for a sticky?

[chipevans22]

Bumping. Alot of creatine questions lately

[chipevans22]

Bump