Nfl combine tests

[30Sacks]

I like most people do not think the drills and workouts at the combine relate very well to football. We've all seen the combine superstars that don't play up to there combine stats. So my question is whats would you include/replace at the combine to better evaluate a football player?

[SixStarPro]

I think this thought process of the combine exercises not relating to football is a bit misguided. Many point the 40 as the prime example and critiqued because no player on the field runs 40 yards up the field completely untouched. While that is true, it's still a great exercise to test speed. Many will point out all the blazers that have set record times in the combine and were complete flops in the NFL. However, not many look at the examples of the blazers that succeeded in the NFL like Chris Johnson and Jacoby Ford .

All that said, I think the bench press at 225lbs is the least effective exercise. The bench press is completely different movement than say the punch of a offensive lineman. Also, lineman are asked to move 300+ men, not 225lbs in some strength indurance testing. What I'd replace it with? Great question.

What are your thoughts 30Sacks?

Luke -
Team Six Star

[moon90]

I think this thought process of the combine exercises not relating to football is a bit misguided. Many point the 40 as the prime example and critiqued because no player on the field runs 40 yards up the field completely untouched. While that is true, it's still a great exercise to test speed. Many will point out all the blazers that have set record times in the combine and were complete flops in the NFL. However, not many look at the examples of the blazers that succeeded in the NFL like Chris Johnson and Jacoby Ford .

All that said, I think the bench press at 225lbs is the least effective exercise. The bench press is completely different movement than say the punch of a offensive lineman. Also, lineman are asked to move 300+ men, not 225lbs in some strength indurance testing. What I'd replace it with? Great question.

What are your thoughts 30Sacks?

Luke -
Team Six Star

As a former college ball player I find that some of the combine tests are not football related but some are. My thoughts:

Vertical, Broad Jump - Both very applicable and good measures of initial explosiveness. Also whats key here is that there is very little technique that needs to be learned to perform either test (although there is some technique that can help a tiny bit). Fairly straightforward though.

Short shuttle, 3-cone - While not football movements these are both fairly good measures of an athletes ability to change direction quickly which is key to football.

60 yard shuttle - No really useful in my opinion although it shows change of direction as well but very few plays last 11 seconds with constant changes in direction so I don't really see the football application personally.

225 rep test - While I'll admit that having certain players perform this test may seem irrelevant to football it is a very simple way of checking an athletes strength. While I'll admit that lineman are usually going against athletes weight much more than 225 lbs. the mere fact that a person can bench 225 30+ times means that that individual is fairly strong, with a max bench press in the 400's. It's a much simpler version of testing out the strength of a player instead of having each and every one perform a 1 rep max.

40 yard dash - I have a lot of issues with the 40 and they don't really have to do with the common complaints of certain players never having to run a full 40 yards straightline or the fact that there is no opposition against them. My issues have to do with the start and the fact that players are forced to basically be in a track-like 3 point stance that is completely ridiculous. NO PLAYER EVER lines up and starts a play from anything even close to those stances, aside from maybe a pass rushing end but even then it's totally different. My thoughts in regards to this would be to have players perform their 40's in the stances that they would normally be lined up in (i.e. offensive/defensive linemen in their traditional 3 point stances, running backs and linebackers in their 2 point-feet even stances, wide receivers in their 2 point wide-out stances, maybe have DB's in a 2 point facing the opposite way so you can see how quickly they can flip their hips and sprint). I just feel like forcing players to be in an unnatural stance in a drill that you can easily + or - .2 seconds off a drill by adjusting the stance is ridiculous.

Those are my thoughts.

[SixStarPro]

As a former college ball player I find that some of the combine tests are not football related but some are. My thoughts:

Vertical, Broad Jump - Both very applicable and good measures of initial explosiveness. Also whats key here is that there is very little technique that needs to be learned to perform either test (although there is some technique that can help a tiny bit). Fairly straightforward though.

Short shuttle, 3-cone - While not football movements these are both fairly good measures of an athletes ability to change direction quickly which is key to football.

60 yard shuttle - No really useful in my opinion although it shows change of direction as well but very few plays last 11 seconds with constant changes in direction so I don't really see the football application personally.

225 rep test - While I'll admit that having certain players perform this test may seem irrelevant to football it is a very simple way of checking an athletes strength. While I'll admit that lineman are usually going against athletes weight much more than 225 lbs. the mere fact that a person can bench 225 30+ times means that that individual is fairly strong, with a max bench press in the 400's. It's a much simpler version of testing out the strength of a player instead of having each and every one perform a 1 rep max.

40 yard dash - I have a lot of issues with the 40 and they don't really have to do with the common complaints of certain players never having to run a full 40 yards straightline or the fact that there is no opposition against them. My issues have to do with the start and the fact that players are forced to basically be in a track-like 3 point stance that is completely ridiculous. NO PLAYER EVER lines up and starts a play from anything even close to those stances, aside from maybe a pass rushing end but even then it's totally different. My thoughts in regards to this would be to have players perform their 40's in the stances that they would normally be lined up in (i.e. offensive/defensive linemen in their traditional 3 point stances, running backs and linebackers in their 2 point-feet even stances, wide receivers in their 2 point wide-out stances, maybe have DB's in a 2 point facing the opposite way so you can see how quickly they can flip their hips and sprint). I just feel like forcing players to be in an unnatural stance in a drill that you can easily + or - .2 seconds off a drill by adjusting the stance is ridiculous.

Those are my thoughts.

Bang on with all those thoughts! Well articulated man. In the end, if they were as ineffective as some like to claim they are, I'm sure they wouldn't be used. I tend to trust the football experts but surely some modifications (like the one you laid out in the 40 yard dash) could be made.

Where did you play ball pro?

Luke -
Team Six Star

[30Sacks]

Ive always thought the same thing about the 40. Have them stand up and take off at the least or make it position specific starting stance like you said. Problem with the shuttle and cone drills is that they really dont test game speed because theres no reaction built into the test. Thats why you have guys who dont play as fast as they test. Thats why I don't like those. I always thought if you want to test a positions speed like receivers have them all do game movements and compare the times. Have them all run 10 yd outs or all run a 40 yd go and compare those times with each other. D-Ends I would like to see how fast they can get around the edge. Those type of things would tell me more about a players speed then a 40 yd dash in a track stance that you have to learn. The broad and vertical jumps are good tests of explosive power and I have no issue with those. 225 LB Bench is pretty good. But I think more of a dead unnatural weight like a press of a sandbag would be more accurate of on field strength.

[30Sacks]

I just get tired of seeing cases like Baylor's Kendall Wright this past season. All season long he makes speedy explosive plays. Was constantly out running DB's. Looked like the fastest guy on tape. He gets to the combine has a bad day running the 40 (4.6) and all of a sudden everybody was questioning his speed. It was hilarious. One bad 40 yd sprint can erase a seasons worth of plays against top talent.

[SixStarPro]

Ive always thought the same thing about the 40. Have them stand up and take off at the least or make it position specific starting stance like you said. Problem with the shuttle and cone drills is that they really dont test game speed because theres no reaction built into the test. Thats why you have guys who dont play as fast as they test. Thats why I don't like those. I always thought if you want to test a positions speed like receivers have them all do game movements and compare the times. Have them all run 10 yd outs or all run a 40 yd go and compare those times with each other. D-Ends I would like to see how fast they can get around the edge. Those type of things would tell me more about a players speed then a 40 yd dash in a track stance that you have to learn. The broad and vertical jumps are good tests of explosive power and I have no issue with those. 225 LB Bench is pretty good. But I think more of a dead unnatural weight like a press of a sandbag would be more accurate of on field strength.

Love the idea about timing DEs getting around the edge as far as a timed speed statistic is concerned. Shuttles help determine their hip flexibility.

The idea bout the sandbag is an interesting one as well.

Luke -
Team Six Star

[SixStarPro]

I just get tired of seeing cases like Baylor's Kendall Wright this past season. All season long he makes speedy explosive plays. Was constantly out running DB's. Looked like the fastest guy on tape. He gets to the combine has a bad day running the 40 (4.6) and all of a sudden everybody was questioning his speed. It was hilarious. One bad 40 yd sprint can erase a seasons worth of plays against top talent.

Agreed. Wright's a burner. Plays way faster than what he's timed. Not sure if I agree with the Titans selecting him but I think he'll be a good pro.

[amar654]

have u heard about nike sparq? its a combine, but they replaced bench test with powerball toss, its much more effective at showing upper body explosiveness.

[moon90]

Bang on with all those thoughts! Well articulated man. In the end, if they were as ineffective as some like to claim they are, I'm sure they wouldn't be used. I tend to trust the football experts but surely some modifications (like the one you laid out in the 40 yard dash) could be made.

Where did you play ball pro?

Luke -
Team Six Star

Didn't have the grades to accept any of the D1 offers I had so I played at a D2 in Mississippi - Delta State. And then I finished up my senior season at NAIA - Southern Oregon.

Ive always thought the same thing about the 40. Have them stand up and take off at the least or make it position specific starting stance like you said. Problem with the shuttle and cone drills is that they really dont test game speed because theres no reaction built into the test. Thats why you have guys who dont play as fast as they test. Thats why I don't like those. I always thought if you want to test a positions speed like receivers have them all do game movements and compare the times. Have them all run 10 yd outs or all run a 40 yd go and compare those times with each other. D-Ends I would like to see how fast they can get around the edge. Those type of things would tell me more about a players speed then a 40 yd dash in a track stance that you have to learn. The broad and vertical jumps are good tests of explosive power and I have no issue with those. 225 LB Bench is pretty good. But I think more of a dead unnatural weight like a press of a sandbag would be more accurate of on field strength.

I like your idea for the sandbag as well as the timing of certain football specific movements. Like SixStar said though the pro-agility and 3 cone measure hip flexibility pretty well as well so I would still keep those in. And I totally agree with you on how ridiculous it is when an obviously fast individual runs a "bad" 40 time. So dumb.