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View Poll Results: Best Bulking Routine?

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  • Best Bulking Routine

    10 66.67%
  • Best Bulking Meal Plans

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  1. #1
    Registered User Moz9's Avatar
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    Best Bulking Routine

    Would like to know the best bulking routine, meal plans and supplements for achieving high muscle gains fast!
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  2. #2
    Registered User ATeeGee's Avatar
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    A surplus of calories.
    A well conbstructed routine.
    Regular progressive overload.

    What are your current lifts?
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  3. #3
    Banned Zamininc's Avatar
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    There isn't really a bulking "routine". Unless you mean workout routine, in which case do SS.

    Just eat what fits your marcos
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  4. #4
    Registered User Dawes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zamininc View Post
    There isn't really a bulking "routine". Unless you mean workout routine, in which case do SS.

    Just eat what fits your marcos
    Why specifically SS for bulking?
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  5. #5
    Registered User Moz9's Avatar
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    well ive been training for about 10months, im doing about 70kg bench, 100kg deadlifts, 90kg squats, im only 69kg, not going to lie im fair skinny but trying to put on muscle mass, ive put on about 3kgs from my bulking cycle which i started in january and im not even thinking of cutting this year just because i want to see mass gains, would like advice
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by Dawes View Post
    Why specifically SS for bulking?
    Well OP's lifts aren't good at all. And at those lifts a strength routine would get more out of the bulk than anything else would.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Dawes View Post
    Why specifically SS for bulking?
    It's simple, effective and you must be a retard to **** it up.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    It's simple, effective and you must be a retard to **** it up.
    For bodybuilding? Not effective AT ALL. Most of the people doing it in this forum (which, by the way, is one of the few places I know where this routine is popular) have awful results.

    OP, for bodybuilding, do a split. I'd begin with an Upper/Lower or Push/Pull/Legs. Tried and true.
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  9. #9
    Delts Brah Ryan314's Avatar
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  10. #10
    Registered User Saintsqc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SpongeBobNoPant View Post
    For bodybuilding? Not effective AT ALL. Most of the people doing it in this forum (which, by the way, is one of the few places I know where this routine is popular) have awful results.

    OP, for bodybuilding, do a split. I'd begin with an Upper/Lower or Push/Pull/Legs. Tried and true.
    Good luck building a big chest with a 70kg bench and big wheels with a 90kg squat...

    If you see people with bad results on a strength program it's because you are not looking at the right place.

    You, sir, are a ****ing idiot.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Good luck building a big chest with a 70kg bench and big wheels with a 90kg squat...

    If you see people with bad results on a strength program it's because you are not looking at the right place.

    You, sir, are a ****ing idiot.
    There is a faster strength increase potential with an upper / lower than there is with SS if you set it up correctly.

    Any program, even a once a week split has built in progression.

    Once a week splits = 5 pounds on all lifts per week, which add up very quickly.

    Basically, if your goal is mass.. you don't need a strength based program for any reason what so ever.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Good luck building a big chest with a 70kg bench and big wheels with a 90kg squat...

    If you see people with bad results on a strength program it's because you are not looking at the right place.

    You, sir, are a ****ing idiot.
    Keep the insults for yourself, it's typical of less intelligent people to use the ad hominem argument, you don't look smart for using the word "sir" in the middle of a sentence. Splits are the most popular bodybuilding program (outside this forum, of course...) for a reason. Care to explain me why a STRENGTH oriented program would be the best for HYPERTROPHY? I do recognise (and apply in my own workout) the importance of strength training, but I said it before and I'll say it again: for bodybuilding purposes, SS is not the best program. And for strength, it is only useful for beginners, "sir".
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    There is a faster strength increase potential with an upper / lower than there is with SS if you set it up correctly.

    Any program, even a once a week split has built in progression.

    Once a week splits = 5 pounds on all lifts per week, which add up very quickly.

    Basically, if your goal is mass.. you don't need a strength based program for any reason what so ever.
    No, there is no faster increase strength potential with an upper/lower. Even if set up correctly...lol

    Originally Posted by SpongeBobNoPant View Post
    Keep the insults for yourself, it's typical of less intelligent people to use the ad hominem argument, you don't look smart for using the word "sir" in the middle of a sentence. Splits are the most popular bodybuilding program (outside this forum, of course...) for a reason. Care to explain me why a STRENGTH oriented program would be the best for HYPERTROPHY? I do recognise (and apply in my own workout) the importance of strength training, but I said it before and I'll say it again: for bodybuilding purposes, SS is not the best program. And for strength, it is only useful for beginners, "sir".
    It's typical of less intelligent people and bla bla bla...
    If you think it is not effective for a noob to get on strength program first...well, you are an idiot. That's not an insult, that's a fact.

    I'll try to make it simple, dont wanna start a debate on this. There is plenty of threads about this already.
    OP is weak and small. He needs a foundation before even thinking about splits and hypertrophy. He has no knowledge on working out. SS is simple and will help him to build a solid foundation.

    SS or any strength programs with an aggressive linear progression will do the job. Read the thread carefully, OP is a beginner. A split is just a waste of time.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    No, there is no faster increase strength potential with an upper/lower. Even if set up correctly...lol
    If you're talking about vanilla SS, then yes. You're training most movements 2x a week as opposed to 1.5x a week. With a potential of increasing each lift by 10 pounds / week (which of course wouldn't last very long, but you will have higher frequency regardless).




    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    If you think it is not effective for a noob to get on strength program first...well, you are an idiot. That's not an insult, that's a fact.
    A program aimed directly toward strength isn't really required. You can and will build strength with any routine.. even low frequency ones such as 5 day splits.

    Stop assuming you'll be benching 100 pounds forever if you don't do SS.


    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    OP is weak and small. He needs a foundation before even thinking about splits and hypertrophy. He has no knowledge on working out. SS is simple and will help him to build a solid foundation.
    SS is severely lacking some body parts. This is a bodybuilding forum, where people actually care about biceps , calves, rear / side delts and upper back.

    Also, any routine with progression will build a good foundation. And pretty much every good routine out there has progression. Whether it's 5 pounds a week, or 15 pounds a week.. as long as you're progressing at a reasonable rate, you will create a good strength foundation for yourself. Weight is not the only factor in which you grow muscle.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    SS or any strength programs with an aggressive linear progression will do the job. Read the thread carefully, OP is a beginner. A split is just a waste of time.
    Splits are not a waste of time for beginners. If you set them up correctly they are beneficial in building mass and strength. 5 pounds a week is slower than SS , yes.. but it also has more volume and targets more muscles that SS neglects.
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    Mon- chest and biceps
    Wed- back and triceps
    Fri- legs and.... chest and biceps


    Not srs. It depends on your experience. Beginner - train each muscle 3x a week. Intermediate - 2x a week. It all depends.
    This post is Natypes approved.
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    Originally Posted by RollTideNation View Post
    Mon- chest and biceps
    Wed- back and triceps
    Fri- legs and.... shoulders
    Fixed that up for you a bit.

    Nothing wrong with a split like that for a beginner.
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    Originally Posted by Ryan314 View Post
    Wendler's 5/3/1

    Food

    Repeat.
    this
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    Fixed that up for you a bit.

    Nothing wrong with a split like that for a beginner.
    Absolutely, that's the kind of split that any beginner can use: not too time consuming, diverse, allows for rest... And progression of course, but that's always up to the lifter to ensure.

    EDIT: I would rep you man, you write some good posts... I'm on recharge though, sorry.
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    Originally Posted by SpongeBobNoPant View Post
    Absolutely, that's the kind of split that any beginner can use: not too time consuming, diverse, allows for rest... And progression of course, but that's always up to the lifter to ensure.

    EDIT: I would rep you man, you write some good posts... I'm on recharge though, sorry.
    Agreed bro.

    Don't worry about it.
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    If you're talking about vanilla SS, then yes. You're training most movements 2x a week as opposed to 1.5x a week. With a potential of increasing each lift by 10 pounds / week (which of course wouldn't last very long, but you will have higher frequency regardless).






    A program aimed directly toward strength isn't really required. You can and will build strength with any routine.. even low frequency ones such as 5 day splits.

    Stop assuming you'll be benching 100 pounds forever if you don't do SS.




    SS is severely lacking some body parts. This is a bodybuilding forum, where people actually care about biceps , calves, rear / side delts and upper back.

    Also, any routine with progression will build a good foundation. And pretty much every good routine out there has progression. Whether it's 5 pounds a week, or 15 pounds a week.. as long as you're progressing at a reasonable rate, you will create a good strength foundation for yourself. Weight is not the only factor in which you grow muscle.



    Splits are not a waste of time for beginners. If you set them up correctly they are beneficial in building mass and strength. 5 pounds a week is slower than SS , yes.. but it also has more volume and targets more muscles that SS neglects.
    Originally Posted by SpongeBobNoPant View Post
    ^ I couldn't have said it any better.
    Annoying kids...this debate is an old one.

    Read these and make your own minds
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=143765093 (Fullbody vs splits part)
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=139911893
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=full+body

    I could go on for ages. I know, they are talking about full body, not especially SS. It is the same ****ing thing...SS is just a simple as **** program that works well. Any full body routine oriented toward linear progression will be perfect...but it is way easier to simply tell a beginner "Do SS and read the stickies" instead of explaining the whole concept behind full body, recovery, progressive overload and blablabla.

    It is funny how splits are advocated by uneducated, weak, skinny and/or phaggots...

    With that been said...negged both of you for being uneducated smart ass. Instead of convincing yourself that you are right and SS sucks, you should read and learn.

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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    No body said compound exercises aren't better. You are making too many assumptions:

    1) You can't progress without full body programs like SS (which really isn't full body at all).

    2) Once a week splits only use isolation exercises, and no compound exercises.

    Another reason to start with a full body program is that this gives you the opportunity to learn and practice the basic lifts: squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, barbell rows, etc. Whether your goal is bodybuilding, strength athlete, sports, or just remaining fit, these really ought to form the basis of any routine. No matter what path you choose to "branch out" on later, these core lifts will serve you well.
    Compounds will be the basis of EVERY good routine, split or not.

    ^ read above.

    Again, stop thinking weight means everything. It's simply not true. Strength =/= size.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Any full body routine oriented toward linear progression will be perfect
    As will any routine. 3-5 day splits, upper/lowers, push/pulls, etc. The keys to building muscle are consistency and diet more so than the actual routine. With any routine you do, you will be adding 0.5 pounds of muscle per week provided your diet and sleep are in check (well almost, most gains from strength programs will be CNS adaption more than anything).

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    ...but it is way easier to simply tell a beginner "Do SS and read the stickies" instead of explaining the whole concept behind full body, recovery, progressive overload and blablabla.
    Basically, you're saying you don't give a **** about what OP wants. "Do SS and read the stickies" roughly translates to: "I don't give a **** about you, and I'm too lazy to actually help you, so I'm going to give you a half ass routine and tell you to read the stickies which will tell you the same thing".

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    It is funny how splits are advocated by uneducated, weak, skinny and/or phaggots.
    Strong generalizations. There are skinny people on both sides of the spectrum. And they are skinny either because they're new, or they don't know how the **** to eat. It most likely has nothing to do with their routine unless it's biceps all day every day.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    With that been said...negged both of you for being uneducated smart ass. Instead of convincing yourself that you are right and SS sucks, you should read and learn.
    I probably would of left this comment out. It just makes you sound extremely butt-hurt and biased.
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post

    1) You can't progress without full body programs like SS (which really isn't full body at all).
    lol wut? SS not a full body routine...you just convinced me that you are an idiot. Congrats.



    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    Again, stop thinking weight means everything. It's simply not true. Strength =/= size.
    Strength=/=size?





    Strong and small right?

    Find me a picture of a guy who can't even bench 225x1 with a big chest or someone with nice wheels who cant even squat 315x1. You dont build muscles without being strong. Beginners have crappy CNS activation...they need descent strength to acquire a serious amount of mass. You go nowhere benching 135x3x10. Of course you can build mass and gain strength without following SS or any strength program...but the quickest way to acquire a good muscular body (drug free) is to work on his strength first, then move on a split.



    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    With any routine you do, you will be adding 0.5 pounds of muscle per week provided your diet and sleep are in check (well almost, most gains from strength programs will be CNS adaption more than anything).
    Oh lawd...no, just no.



    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    Basically, you're saying you don't give a **** about what OP wants. "Do SS and read the stickies" roughly translates to: "I don't give a **** about you, and I'm too lazy to actually help you, so I'm going to give you a half ass routine and tell you to read the stickies which will tell you the same thing".
    No body said compound idgaf about OP. You are making too many assumptions.

    lol @ SS is a half ass routine. You want to debate about this with Ripptoe? You are 20 yo...he's being training people for more than your age. Just stop...




    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    I probably would of left this comment out. It just makes you sound extremely butt-hurt and biased.
    Butt hurt? Because of what? Some stranger over a forum is trying to explain to me why SS sucks and how splits are better for beginners?

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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    lol wut? SS not a full body routine...you just convinced me that you are an idiot. Congrats.
    I would assume a full body routine works every muscle in your body , every session. The first problem with SS being full body is that it doesn't even focus on every body part.

    The second problem would be that the workouts are split into an a / b fashion. Not all muscle groups (that SS does hit) will be hit 3x a week.


    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Strength=/=size?

    Strong and small right?
    Just because your strong, doesn't mean you will be big. Half those people you posted aren't big at all. (Well 2. Martin (14 inch arms oh lawd) and the person above him (decent legs though!))



    ^ Record holder in Olympic weight lifting.



    ^ Also A record holder



    ^ Another ****ing record holder.

    I could literally post hundreds of photos of guys who are strong as ****, but not big.

    What I meant by strength =/= size is that they're not DIRECTLY related. If you are getting stronger and eating right, you will put on size of course. But which routine doesn't make you stronger? Which routine has no progression built into it? Pretty much none.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Find me a picture of a guy who can't even bench 225x1 with a big chest or someone with nice wheels who cant even squat 315x1.
    Implying only SS will get you to a 225x1 bench or a 315x1 squat? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Beginners have crappy CNS activation...they need descent strength to acquire a serious amount of mass.
    Any routine out there will give you strength. Atleast, 99.9% of them.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Of course you can build mass and gain strength without following SS or any strength program...but the quickest way to acquire a good muscular body (drug free) is to work on his strength first, then move on a split.
    What you don't understand is that ANY routine will build good strength on you. As a beginner, you can progress very fast. But strength isn't the ONLY factor that determines how much muscle you have.

    I disagree that you need to do routines like SS first. You can do splits from the get go, and add 5-10 pounds / week to each major lift for a looooooong time.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Oh lawd...no, just no.
    Oh lawd.. yes, just yes.





    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    No body said compound idgaf about OP
    I don't understand what you just said.

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    lol @ SS is a half ass routine. You want to debate about this with Ripptoe? You are 20 yo...he's being training people for more than your age. Just stop..
    I would love to debate with Ripptoe that SS is the best program for a beginning bodybuilder. I pretty much know exactly what he would say. "I don't ****ing know, I'm a strength coach."

    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    Butt hurt? Because of what? Some stranger over a forum is trying to explain to me why SS sucks and how splits are better for beginners?
    Yes.

    SS doesn't necessarily suck. But there's many routines as good, if not better than it. This includes splits.
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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    It's simple, effective and you must be a retard to **** it up.
    This post is quote worthy.

    Well if your debating on the Splits over SS idc. The point is n00bs who have no clue wtf they're doing cant **** up SS.

    If they try a complicated split right off the bat odds are they will do it wrong. Yes I know they aren't complicated but we live in a world where the average level of bodybuild knowledge is potatoe.

    Let them do SS while they lurk for a few months and learn. Once they get a grasp of what's going on. That way they won't waste they few months.
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    Originally Posted by Arcos27 View Post
    This post is quote worthy.

    What if your debating on the Splits over SS idc the point is n00bs who have no clue wtf they're doing cant **** up SS.

    If they try a complicated split right off the bat odds are they will do it wrong. Yes I know they aren't complicated but we live in a world where the average level of bodybuild knowledge is potatoe.

    Let them do SS while they lurk for a few months and learn. Once they get a grasp of what's going on. That way they won't waste they few months.
    If they'll **** a split up, they will **** SS up. It's really as simple as that.
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    I would assume a full body routine works every muscle in your body , every session. The first problem with SS being full body is that it doesn't even focus on every body part.

    You kidding right?
    A : Squat (lower + spine erector), bench (chest, shoulder, tri), power clean (hips extensor, upper back) or row (whole back + posterior chain), possibility to add a few other exercises (chin up, curl, dips, tricep extension, abs work)
    B : Squat (""), press (shoulder, core, tri), dead lift (posterior chain, spine erector, traps/rhomboid, forearm), possibility to add a few other exercises ("")
    That's not a full body routine right?





    Just because your strong, doesn't mean you will be big. Half those people you posted aren't big at all. (Well 2. Martin (14 inch arms oh lawd) and the person above him (decent legs though!))
    PM when you will look as muscular as these 2 "not big at all" guy. You are right though, some people might be strong but not big...but you can't be big without being strong (exept a few people).



    ^ Record holder in Olympic weight lifting.



    ^ Also A record holder



    ^ Another ****ing record holder.

    I could literally post hundreds of photos of guys who are strong as ****, but not big.

    Could you post pictures of these guys flexing? Oly lifters have muscular legs, shoulders, and backs...you post picture of lightweight olylifters with saggy shirts and lifting suits. Mind to try again?

    [bla bla bla]If you are getting stronger and eating right, you will put on size of course. [bla bla bla]
    We are saying the samething...



    Implying only SS will get you to a 225x1 bench or a 315x1 squat? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

    Sorry if it wasnt clear (Im french, it's hard to argue sometime)...I meant you cant build a big chest or big legs without being strong. Any guy you can find with a big chest can reps 225 easily. Samething goes for back, legs, shoulders, etc. You must move big weights to build big muscles. But I guess we both agree on that.



    Any routine out there will give you strength. Atleast, 99.9% of them.
    You don't say!!?? ... I never said the opposite. What I'm saying is, they need to gain strength first...and the quickest way to gain strength is to get on a strength program. Any kind of weight lifting will get you stronger. There is an optimal way to get stronger and this way is strength training.



    What you don't understand is that ANY routine will build good strength on you. As a beginner, you can progress very fast. But strength isn't the ONLY factor that determines how much muscle you have.
    I do understand. It's no magic. Wich way will build up your squat quicker? Squatting 3x+ a week and adding 5 lbs evertime...or squatting 1-2x a week and adding 5lbs evertime?
    I also know that strength is not the only factor that determines how much muscle you have...but when you reps baby weight, you dont stimulate much fibers. You will gain strength on any ****ing given program, of course, but a strength routine will give you the best strength gains in a given time. And strength will help on the long term. A strong guy will build muscle much more easily/quicly.


    I disagree that you need to do routines like SS first. You can do splits from the get go, and add 5-10 pounds / week to each major lift for a looooooong time.
    Can you gain on a brosplit ? Of course.
    Is it the optimal way? No.
    Do you want to debate with Voexmachina? Explain to him how it is much better for a noob to start on a split instead on a full body routine. The guy knows his **** and he wrote two stickies for people like you.




    Oh lawd.. yes, just yes.
    You wrote : "With any routine you do, you will be adding 0.5 pounds of muscle per week provided your diet and sleep are in check (well almost, most gains from strength programs will be CNS adaption more than anything)."
    With any routine you do, you will gain 0.5lbs of muscle per week. Lol what? How about hard gainers vs god bless genetics freak? Drug free vs drug users? Advanced vs beginner?
    Most gains from strength program will be CNS adaptation? U mad that my legs grow like never when I started SS? U mad Comps grow like crazy while doing strength program (as far as I know ,maybe he switched)? Gains from strength program are not only CNS adaption. You just proved to me, one more time, that you dont know what you are talking about.









    I don't understand what you just said.
    My bad, I meant : Nobody said idgaf about OP.



    I would love to debate with Ripptoe that SS is the best program for a beginning bodybuilder. I pretty much know exactly what he would say. "I don't ****ing know, I'm a strength coach."
    What the ****? You said his program was a half-ass routine...why in hell would he answer "I dont fcking know, I'm a strength coach"!??? Obviously, he doesnt give a damn about an uneducated teen who thought a full body routine isnt the way to go with a beginner. I loled @ you saying SS is a half ass routine when the author of this program have more experience in the world of weight lifting coaching than you are aged.



    Yes.
    I'm sorry, but your opinions dont butt hurt me I know you would like to have an impact on a stranger's mood with your posts...but frankly, I dont really care. I'm just strongly bored (school is over, I work tomorrow morning, GF is away, friends are busy). You are the distraction of my evening.

    SS doesn't necessarily suck. But there's many routines as good, if not better than it. This includes splits.
    We could have an agreement here. Every people have different goals/life/experience.
    For a beginner though, you can't go wong when you are suggesting a fullbody routine like SS. OP clearly doesnt know his basics on weight lifting/nutrition...he better go on SS and build a base. The post above (Arcos), explain it better than me.
    In bold, too lazy to multi quote.
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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    In bold, too lazy to multi quote.
    - The only one with the saggy shirt is the middle one.

    - Yes, we do.

    - You don't need to get stronger as fast as possible though. You need more than just pure weight alone to stimulate muscles. We're talking about strictly mass here, not strength. Lets just assume your logic is correct, and that the ONLY way to add mass is to pack on as much strength as possible. Why would an upper/lower routine be worse for that compared with SS? Upper/lower routines will have you doing most compound exercises 2x a week , as opposed to only 1.5x a week like on SS. So if strength was the only way to add mass, upper/lowers would be far more efficient.

    From a bodybuilding perspective, why would you ignore muscles like biceps, upper back, side delts, rear delts, calves, etc.

    - Again, you're comparing a hypertrophy routine to a strength routine in terms of strength. How the hell is that even a fair comparison?

    - There is never going to be an optimal way for everyone. I'm assuming that you're comparing splits to SS in terms of weight progression again. It's not a very valid / fair comparison.

    - 0.5 pounds is the average, for a beginner lifter who is not on drugs. I thought this was fairly common knowledge. Of course it's going to vary between people. But the point I was making was that you can add the maximum amount of mass you want with any routine. And I said strength gains = mostly CNS adaption. Not all. Of course there comes a point in time where all muscle fibers are (somewhat) being used fully, and thus the body will need to create more.

    - It's a half ass routine for bodybuilders, because it ignores half of the damn muscles on your body (not literally half).

    - The point Across made was that a split is too complicated for a beginner to follow. If a beginner gets confused from a simple thing like a split.. he WILL get confused from SS. They are both simple as ****.
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    Originally Posted by watwut View Post
    - The only one with the saggy shirt is the middle one.

    - Yes, we do.

    - You don't need to get stronger as fast as possible though. You need more than just pure weight alone to stimulate muscles. We're talking about strictly mass here, not strength. Lets just assume your logic is correct, and that the ONLY way to add mass is to pack on as much strength as possible. Why would an upper/lower routine be worse for that compared with SS? Upper/lower routines will have you doing most compound exercises 2x a week , as opposed to only 1.5x a week like on SS. So if strength was the only way to add mass, upper/lowers would be far more efficient.

    From a bodybuilding perspective, why would you ignore muscles like biceps, upper back, side delts, rear delts, calves, etc.

    - Again, you're comparing a hypertrophy routine to a strength routine in terms of strength. How the hell is that even a fair comparison?

    - There is never going to be an optimal way for everyone. I'm assuming that you're comparing splits to SS in terms of weight progression again. It's not a very valid / fair comparison.

    - 0.5 pounds is the average, for a beginner lifter who is not on drugs. I thought this was fairly common knowledge. Of course it's going to vary between people. But the point I was making was that you can add the maximum amount of mass you want with any routine. And I said strength gains = mostly CNS adaption. Not all. Of course there comes a point in time where all muscle fibers are (somewhat) being used fully, and thus the body will need to create more.

    - It's a half ass routine for bodybuilders, because it ignores half of the damn muscles on your body (not literally half).

    - The point Across made was that a split is too complicated for a beginner to follow. If a beginner gets confused from a simple thing like a split.. he WILL get confused from SS. They are both simple as ****.
    It's still impossible to see the back/shoulder/legs flexed of any weight lifters you posted.

    I never said nor think that the only way to add mass is to get stronger as fast as possible. You dont understand me (I'm sorry if my posts are hard to understand). I say : a beginner need to build a solid foundation. The easiest/quickest/safest way to go is a full body strength oriented program (SL5x5, SS, at least Allpro's even if it's not a strength program).

    From a bodybuilding perspective, a beginner doesnt need to go crazy on small muscles like biceps, lat and rear delt, calves, etc. They are small and skinny as ****. Major compounds already hit them and a bunch of curls, facepulls, chin ups, dips at the end of the work out will be plenty of work to stimulate these parts. Dedicating half of a day (Chest/bi, back/tri, shoulders/legs) is just a waste of time/energy. 10 minutes at the end is more than enough.

    The rate of muscle gains depends on so many factors...simply saying that someone will gain 0.5 lbs/weeks is stupid.

    The body doesnt create new fibers. Please, listen to me. You need to read and learn. You lack knowledge is so many domains...do yourself a favor, stop thinking you know it all...just read and learn.

    SS is not a routine for bodybuilders. It's a routine for skinny/weak people who just need to put some mass on their frame and gain strength. You can't claim to be a bodybuilder when you are scrawny as fck. It doesnt matter at all if you want to be aesthetic and big or just strong...if you are skinny as **** and weak as fck, you just need to follow a god damn full body and gain some mass/strength.

    SS is simple as ****. You do at least 5 exercises on 2 different days, you add 5-10 lbs every work out. When you fail to do that, you drop 10% weight and you reset. In the meantime, you eat more.
    Splits, upper/lower, push/pull, phat, etc, etc, etc are way more complicated than SS. You just can't add 5-10lbs every work out because your rep range might not allow it, you might be fatigued from your previous exercise, you might be fatigued by the frequency (4-5x a week). A noob can easily get lost with all the broscience out there. He might be influenced to add drop set, super set, cumulative fatigue work, rest-paused, one and a half rep, etc., and at the end, he will have a complicated routine.
    You dont need to think or "feel" with SS, you add weight and eat. It is a lot easier to ****ed up a split than SS. An uneducated beginner that starts a splits is more prone to **** his routine up.
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    Originally Posted by Saintsqc View Post
    It's still impossible to see the back/shoulder/legs flexed of any weight lifters you posted.

    I never said nor think that the only way to add mass is to get stronger as fast as possible. You dont understand me (I'm sorry if my posts are hard to understand). I say : a beginner need to build a solid foundation. The easiest/quickest/safest way to go is a full body strength oriented program (SL5x5, SS, at least Allpro's even if it's not a strength program).

    From a bodybuilding perspective, a beginner doesnt need to go crazy on small muscles like biceps, lat and rear delt, calves, etc. They are small and skinny as ****. Major compounds already hit them and a bunch of curls, facepulls, chin ups, dips at the end of the work out will be plenty of work to stimulate these parts. Dedicating half of a day (Chest/bi, back/tri, shoulders/legs) is just a waste of time/energy. 10 minutes at the end is more than enough.

    The rate of muscle gains depends on so many factors...simply saying that someone will gain 0.5 lbs/weeks is stupid.

    The body doesnt create new fibers. Please, listen to me. You need to read and learn. You lack knowledge is so many domains...do yourself a favor, stop thinking you know it all...just read and learn.

    SS is not a routine for bodybuilders. It's a routine for skinny/weak people who just need to put some mass on their frame and gain strength. You can't claim to be a bodybuilder when you are scrawny as fck. It doesnt matter at all if you want to be aesthetic and big or just strong...if you are skinny as **** and weak as fck, you just need to follow a god damn full body and gain some mass/strength.

    SS is simple as ****. You do at least 5 exercises on 2 different days, you add 5-10 lbs every work out. When you fail to do that, you drop 10% weight and you reset. In the meantime, you eat more.
    Splits, upper/lower, push/pull, phat, etc, etc, etc are way more complicated than SS. You just can't add 5-10lbs every work out because your rep range might not allow it, you might be fatigued from your previous exercise, you might be fatigued by the frequency (4-5x a week). A noob can easily get lost with all the broscience out there. He might be influenced to add drop set, super set, cumulative fatigue work, rest-paused, one and a half rep, etc., and at the end, he will have a complicated routine.
    You dont need to think or "feel" with SS, you add weight and eat. It is a lot easier to ****ed up a split than SS. An uneducated beginner that starts a splits is more prone to **** his routine up.
    - That still doesn't take away from the fact that they look skinny as ****. Just Google Olympic records and go on Wikipedia, and search a few random names. Almost all of them won't be too big.

    - To build a 'solid foundation' you can do many other routines. Not just SS. That is basically what I'm saying.

    - I disagree. They are like any other body part. They need work done to get results. That's not to say you should be blasting them with 40000 sets though.

    - It's an average. You can read more about it on lyle mcdonalds site (that's where I remember reading about it I'm fairly sure).

    - Basically, what I'm saying is there are many routines that can be used instead of SS. Splits, upper/lowers, push/pulls.. literally.. TONS of routines.
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