Stalled 3 times on SS. Would Madcow's be too advanced for me?

[Chemology]

Could use some advice.

I have been running SS for a while, but i have been stalling a lot faster than i expected.
According to most people on this site i should be able to get my squat up to 3 plates or so, purely from SS or something similar.
All my main lifts have stalled, and at pretty lousy numbers.

My squat went from 67.5 to 82.5kg, i tried increasing the weight further but never really got 3x5 with 85kg, and 87.5kg was basically my 3 rep max.

Similar story with my other lifts, just currently stuck at 65kg on bench, deadlift is at 115kg, OHP is 45kg and row is 62.5kg

I gained about 0.5 pound a week consistently. Im 19, 6 foot and 156 pounds, give or take.
I have been training for a couple of years, and i have tried SS before, but i never really ate enough to gain weight until now
I did get 8 hours of sleep each night, enough fat/protein/veggies etc.
I started the program from the beginning and did it as it was written.

My squat have stalled 3 times now, everything else 1-2 times. I believe the guidelines for SS tells you to move on when you stalled 3 times on a lift?

Any advice on what i should do?

[H1t_V3r4c]

Increase your rest periods between sets.
Up the calories in order to gain 1lb per week and continue with the weights you used last workout(s).
Post videos of your form, evaluate feedback.

[Lackeos]

You need to gain weight faster when you're on SS, it's that simple. Had you been doing that all along, you may not have needed to reset at all, or at least done it less.

Madcow's is a good program to follow-up SS with, but you're simply not done with SS yet. At the end of SS, you should be a 200-pound somewhat flabby intermediate powerlifter. So... eat more, set new PR's.

[Jasonk282]

6' 156lbs...that's the reason your are stalling. Track your calories and up them.

[docd187]

You could have gotten your questions answered in one thread instead of starting multiples within hours of each other. As others have said you need to eat more.

[JasonDB]

You need to gain weight faster when you're on SS, it's that simple. Had you been doing that all along, you may not have needed to reset at all, or at least done it less.

Madcow's is a good program to follow-up SS with, but you're simply not done with SS yet. At the end of SS, you should be a 200-pound somewhat flabby intermediate powerlifter. So... eat more, set new PR's.

6' 156lbs...that's the reason your are stalling. Track your calories and up them.

These ^^^ you aren't eating enough for this rapid of a progressive overload program.

Your strength gains have actually been sub-par for someone 13 weeks into a program such as this, but again this is due to a failure to eat a proper caloric surplus and gain bodyweight. That squat shoud be past 100kg by now.

[pippylippy]

When a person goes stale it's not typically because of his training split, full-body routine, etc, it's because he's adapted to the exercises, sets and rep counts. The "solution" is much more likely to be found in changing exercise choices (variations) or switching rep ranges, sets, etc. rather than the routine design itself.

If you've been doing 3x10 for awhile I'd try substituting in new exercise variations, order, etc and trying a scheme like 5x5 on the basic exercises - starting relatively easily and ramping up the weights slowly. That should get things going again. When that stalls I'd move to different exercises on the different training days (an example for chest would be bench press on Day 1, DB work on Day 2, and incline work on Day 3). It's the variety that's needed and that can be gotten using either a full-body or a split - it's not a case of necessarily it's time to split your routine.

[JasonDB]

When a person goes stale it's not typically because of his training split, full-body routine, etc, it's because he's adapted to the exercises, sets and rep counts. The "solution" is much more likely to be found in changing exercise choices (variations) or switching rep ranges, sets, etc. rather than the routine design itself.

If you've been doing 3x10 for awhile I'd try substituting in new exercise variations, order, etc and trying a scheme like 5x5 on the basic exercises - starting relatively easily and ramping up the weights slowly. That should get things going again. When that stalls I'd move to different exercises on the different training days (an example for chest would be bench press on Day 1, DB work on Day 2, and incline work on Day 3). It's the variety that's needed and that can be gotten using either a full-body or a split - it's not a case of necessarily it's time to split your routine.

Terrible advice... please go. He is a weak novice doing a pre-written routine written by an experienced strength coach. He stalled because he is on a routine written for a novice by an expert that requires a large enough caloric surplus to gain bodyweight in order to keep up with the progressive overload written into the program... and isn't eating enough food to accomidate this.

[pippylippy]

Terrible advice... please go. He is a weak novice doing a pre-written routine written by an experienced strength coach. He stalled because he is on a routine written for a novice by an expert that requires a large enough caloric surplus to gain bodyweight in order to keep up with the progressive overload written into the program... and isn't eating enough food to accomidate this.

You'll only gain muscle at a genetically determined amount of probably a few ounces a week at most, in the long-term. Any calories above and beyond what's needed for that will only go on as extra fat, so I wouldn't try to "bulk up" for any amount of time - short periods after periods of dieting, but other than that, no. As a long-term strategy I'd go over maintenance by a few hundred calories at most. More than that and you'll just gain a disproportionate amount of fat.


EDIT: Your neg reminded me why i stopped posting on these forums.

[JasonDB]

You'll only gain muscle at a genetically determined amount of probably a few ounces a week at most, in the long-term. Any calories above and beyond what's needed for that will only go on as extra fat, so I wouldn't try to "bulk up" for any amount of time - short periods after periods of dieting, but other than that, no. As a long-term strategy I'd go over maintenance by a few hundred calories at most. More than that and you'll just gain a disproportionate amount of fat.

A skinny novice with weak lifts has a massive room to grow rapidly... and it is far better for him, at this point in the game, to get a bit of bodyfat that he can cut, in order to build an actual foundation. Negged btw to ensure people see a red bar when you give future advice.

[theproctologist]

You'll only gain muscle at a genetically determined amount of probably a few ounces a week at most, in the long-term. Any calories above and beyond what's needed for that will only go on as extra fat, so I wouldn't try to "bulk up" for any amount of time - short periods after periods of dieting, but other than that, no. As a long-term strategy I'd go over maintenance by a few hundred calories at most. More than that and you'll just gain a disproportionate amount of fat.


EDIT: Your neg reminded me why i stopped posting on these forums.

AS JasonDB said, please go

[pippylippy]

A skinny novice with weak lifts has a massive room to grow rapidly... and it is far better for him, at this point in the game, to get a bit of bodyfat that he can cut, in order to build an actual foundation. Negged btw to ensure people see a red bar when you give future advice.

In OP's case I might go slightly over maintenance, but not 500 calories worth - perhaps 200-300 cals on workout days at most. Basically, just enough to replace the calories you're burning during the training. On the other hand, most gains guring the first few weeks of training are neural in nature and your body improves its efficiency at "recycling" proteins in the urea cycle, so you actually don't need a great deal of extra calories or even protein at that time. If you didn't add any extra calories in for the first few weeks you'd likely gain strength at a similar pace as if you did and any lean body mass gains may be slightly off at most, but you could "harden" up your physique a bit and drop a few pounds of fat.

[JasonDB]

In OP's case I might go slightly over maintenance, but not 500 calories worth - perhaps 200-300 cals on workout days at most. Basically, just enough to replace the calories you're burning during the training. On the other hand, most gains guring the first few weeks of training are neural in nature and your body improves its efficiency at "recycling" proteins in the urea cycle, so you actually don't need a great deal of extra calories or even protein at that time. If you didn't add any extra calories in for the first few weeks you'd likely gain strength at a similar pace as if you did and any lean body mass gains may be slightly off at most, but you could "harden" up your physique a bit and drop a few pounds of fat.

I think the best thing he could do is put on at least 5 lbs per month for the next 3 months (12 weeks) and push the program to the max.

Also as others will most likely say to you:
-Red no care.
-No avi no care.
-No lifting stats and video evidence.... no care.
-No exercise science or nutritional science degree, no care.

[Jasonk282]

Pippylippy...please, you don't know a damn thing about ss...your advise is horrible.

[Chemology]

Ok thanks for the advice everyone, ill bump up the calories and try again.

And i seriously didn't realise that i made two threads about this subject, not quite sure how i managed that... Sorry for any inconvenience.

[pageh656]

switching to gslp is also an option, very similar program with minor changes and many ppl transition to it after SS