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  1. #1
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    Does DOMS=Growth?

    Does Deylayed Onset Muscle Soreness(DOMS) equal growth?

    They say, "no pain no gain"

    so is the pain you free from DOMS the gain?
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  2. #2
    STFU and train Jasonk282's Avatar
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    No.
    Navy football....making Army out bitch for the past 13 years.

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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    No.
    ^^This
    "In order to succeed you must fail so, don't be afraid to make mistakes."
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  4. #4
    Banned dehartmt's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    No.
    that sucks!!!
    I feel like I have a sense of accomplishment when i feel DOMS
    Like my training is doing something
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  5. #5
    Registered User ericmackcarter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dehartmt View Post
    that sucks!!!
    I feel like I have a sense of accomplishment when i feel DOMS
    Like my training is doing something
    Whatever motivates you brah. I love being sore especially chest.
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  6. #6
    STFU and train Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dehartmt View Post
    that sucks!!!
    I feel like I have a sense of accomplishment when i feel DOMS
    Like my training is doing something
    Add weight each workout/week or add a rep per week...that's accomplishment. Being sore is just your muscles not used to the activity you have them do.

    Monday I squatted 250lbs for 5/3/0 today I squatted 250lbs for 5/4/3...Friday I'm going for 250lbs for 5/5/5.
    Navy football....making Army out bitch for the past 13 years.

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  7. #7
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    No, you don't need DOMS to grow. I wouldn't be disappointed about it. There's going to be some days or even weeks you don't feel sore. Now you know that this doesn't mean you aren't growing.
    I love lifting plates and bars.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Add weight each workout/week or add a rep per week...that's accomplishment.
    True, that could be considered 'accomplishment'.... However, it does not equal 'progress.'

    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Being sore is just your muscles not used to the activity you have them do.
    This part is true, at least.
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  9. #9
    Published Fitness Author Bradster101190's Avatar
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    Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness does not guarantee growth, however you can use it as a sign your workout targeted the intended muscles.

    For example, after a chest and back workout if the next day your triceps or shoulders are more sore then your chest and back you may need to re select your exercises and better analyze your form.

    As others have said it is primarily to do with doing a movement you havent done lately which is why its best used only to evaluate which muscles you targetted with the new movement.
    Last edited by Bradster101190; 05-02-2012 at 10:17 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Good answers
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  11. #11
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    Caloric surplus + Proper training = Growth
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by CertifiedMuscle View Post
    True, that could be considered 'accomplishment'.... However, it does not equal 'progress.'



    This part is true, at least.
    So adding a rep or weight each week is NOT progress...really? How do you measure progress then?
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  13. #13
    Objective optimist Xuaxace's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CertifiedMuscle View Post
    True, that could be considered 'accomplishment'.... However, it does not equal 'progress.'



    Dafuq? how is not increasing reps or weight not progress...


    The 4 constituents of progress IMO:

    Increasing weight used
    Increasing reps
    Increase sets
    Lower rest times.


    With reps and weight progression are the most important factors for "progress"
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by Xuaxace View Post
    Dafuq? how is not increasing reps or weight not progress...


    The 4 constituents of progress IMO:

    Increasing weight used
    Increasing reps
    Increase sets
    Lower rest times.


    With reps and weight progression are the most important factors for "progress"
    I was wondering as well...still waiting for my answer. Though I won't be holding my breath.
    Navy football....making Army out bitch for the past 13 years.

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  15. #15
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    DOMs likely means you gave extra focus whether consciously or subconsciously to the eccentric portion of your exercises. Although it can occur from both concentric and eccentric contractions, intense DOMs is mainly from eccentric.
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    So adding a rep or weight each week is NOT progress...really? How do you measure progress then?
    No, you're right. Adding reps/weight is progress.

    Perhaps I should have said: you can still progress without adding reps/weight each week.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by Xuaxace View Post
    Dafuq? how is not increasing reps or weight not progress...


    The 4 constituents of progress IMO:

    Increasing weight used
    Increasing reps
    Increase sets
    Lower rest times.


    With reps and weight progression are the most important factors for "progress"
    You're talking more like a powerlifter than a bodybuilder.
    A bodybuilder's "progress" is gaining muscular size. You gain size (hypertrophy) via muscular adaption to stress. If it takes 3 weeks to adapt to a certain weight/reps, and thus you grow during those 3 weeks, but you have no change in weight/reps, are you saying that there is no progress? False.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by CertifiedMuscle View Post
    You're talking more like a powerlifter than a bodybuilder.
    A bodybuilder's "progress" is gaining muscular size. You gain size (hypertrophy) via muscular adaption to stress. If it takes 3 weeks to adapt to a certain weight/reps, and thus you grow during those 3 weeks, but you have no change in weight/reps, are you saying that there is no progress? False.
    Can you phrase that a little. I have read it 100 times and still can't make sense of it.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by Xuaxace View Post
    Can you phrase that a little. I have read it 100 times and still can't make sense of it.
    Sorry, I'll try again :-P

    John Doe is benching 225 lbs for 4x6. It takes him 3 weeks to adapt to that weight/reps, so 3 weeks later he is able to do either 235 lbs for 4x6 or 225 lbs for 4x7 (something like that, for sake of example).
    During that 3-week period of adaption, he is still growing. By bodybuilding standards, he is "progressing." However, he is not adding weight or reps 'each week' during that adaption process.

    I was simply trying to show that Jasonk282's logic is not absolute; you can still progress without adding weight/reps each week (or even every other week).
    But I definitely agree that adding weight/reps each week is progress (by strength standards anyway; I would argue that growth is a better measure of progress when it comes to bodybuilding).

    Hope this clears it up
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by CertifiedMuscle View Post
    Sorry, I'll try again :-P

    John Doe is benching 225 lbs for 4x6. It takes him 3 weeks to adapt to that weight/reps, so 3 weeks later he is able to do either 235 lbs for 4x6 or 225 lbs for 4x7 (something like that, for sake of example).
    During that 3-week period of adaption, he is still growing. By bodybuilding standards, he is "progressing." However, he is not adding weight or reps 'each week' during that adaption process.

    I was simply trying to show that Jasonk282's logic is not absolute; you can still progress without adding weight/reps each week (or even every other week).
    But I definitely agree that adding weight/reps each week is progress (by strength standards anyway; I would argue that growth is a better measure of progress when it comes to bodybuilding).

    Hope this clears it up
    Even with BBing, you grow when you add more resistance...be it reps or weight.
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  21. #21
    Objective optimist Xuaxace's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CertifiedMuscle View Post
    Sorry, I'll try again :-P

    John Doe is benching 225 lbs for 4x6. It takes him 3 weeks to adapt to that weight/reps, so 3 weeks later he is able to do either 235 lbs for 4x6 or 225 lbs for 4x7 (something like that, for sake of example).
    During that 3-week period of adaption, he is still growing. By bodybuilding standards, he is "progressing." However, he is not adding weight or reps 'each week' during that adaption process.

    I was simply trying to show that Jasonk282's logic is not absolute; you can still progress without adding weight/reps each week (or even every other week).
    But I definitely agree that adding weight/reps each week is progress (by strength standards anyway; I would argue that growth is a better measure of progress when it comes to bodybuilding).

    Hope this clears it up
    no...

    if someone stays 2-3 weeks doing the same weights as last week, he is barely progressing by any means. There is no extra stimulus.

    Infact It goes beyond logic that someone would stay in the same weight and rep range for no reason what so ever. If he has hit is targets, then next week calls for an overload.

    If you stay 3 weeks doing the same weight, you won't be able to do a big jump in weight the time you decide to move the weights, it is baby steps, and thus the guy that has made a strive every week to improve will be considerately ahead in terms of strength and growth.

    What elicits more growth 225 4x6 for 3 weeks or 225 x 4x6 , 230 4x6 and a probable 235 x 5x5. My money would always go to the guy that is making progress. For strength and bodybuilding.
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  22. #22
    Starting the Slow Cut CertifiedMuscle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Xuaxace View Post
    no...

    if someone stays 2-3 weeks doing the same weights as last week, he is barely progressing by any means. There is no extra stimulus.

    Infact It goes beyond logic that someone would stay in the same weight and rep range for no reason what so ever. If he has hit is targets, then next week calls for an overload.

    If you stay 3 weeks doing the same weight, you won't be able to do a big jump in weight the time you decide to move the weights, it is baby steps, and thus the guy that has made a strive every week to improve will be considerately ahead in terms of strength and growth.

    What elicits more growth 225 4x6 for 3 weeks or 225 x 4x6 , 230 4x6 and a probable 235 x 5x5. My money would always go to the guy that is making progress. For strength and bodybuilding.
    We can agree to disagree. I've had periods where I add 10lbs every single week for every lift; other times, I'm at the same weight for a few weeks but I still gain 1-3 lbs.

    So if one BBer is adding a tiny bit of weight each week and growing, and another is at the same weight for a few weeks but still growing, are you saying that only the 1st BBer is making progress? That's nonsense.
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Even with BBing, you grow when you add more resistance...be it reps or weight.
    False. You grow when your muscles adapt. That happens BEFORE you add more resistance. You add more resistance once your muscles adapt. After you add more, then they adapt to that (and thus grow more). THEN you add more, etc.
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  24. #24
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    so what you are saying is doms doesnt mean ****
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    Originally Posted by dehartmt View Post
    so what you are saying is doms doesnt mean ****
    yes
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  26. #26
    STFU and train Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CertifiedMuscle View Post
    False. You grow when your muscles adapt. That happens BEFORE you add more resistance. You add more resistance once your muscles adapt. After you add more, then they adapt to that (and thus grow more). THEN you add more, etc.
    Actually no...you grow when you muscles are resting...having your muscle adapt to a specific weight cause zero growth...hence why you need to do additional weight/reps.
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  27. #27
    STFU and train Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CertifiedMuscle View Post
    We can agree to disagree. I've had periods where I add 10lbs every single week for every lift; other times, I'm at the same weight for a few weeks but I still gain 1-3 lbs.

    So if one BBer is adding a tiny bit of weight each week and growing, and another is at the same weight for a few weeks but still growing, are you saying that only the 1st BBer is making progress? That's nonsense.
    How exactly can you grow when you're at the same weight week in and week out...that's stagnation, not growth.
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  28. #28
    CSCS, CPT, WNBF Pro Cytrainer913's Avatar
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    Just give you a little heads up on something I read by Brad in a recent NSCA article about Hypertrophy by Brad Schoenfeld, getting his Phd in Muscle hypertrophy:

    His quote which to me has a lot of merit:"DOMS per se does not mediate hypertrophy, but the underlying muscle damage that is generally associated with the soreness very well may. I wrote a review paper on the topic that appears in this month's JSCR. As far as lactic acid, there is evidence that it does play a role in hypertrophy, as part of metabolic stress factors that mediate anabolism. I have a paper currently under review that addresses this topic."
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Actually no...you grow when you muscles are resting...having your muscle adapt to a specific weight cause zero growth...hence why you need to do additional weight/reps.
    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    How exactly can you grow when you're at the same weight week in and week out...that's stagnation, not growth.
    It seems like you're mixing up the sequence of the hypertrophy process. I'm not sure if you're just trying to use logic or what, but think about it purely from a mechanical and physiological standpoint.

    1. The muscle is in its 'present' state (at a certain strength-level, at a certain size, etc.)
    2. The muscle is stressed at a level just beyond maximum of what it can handle comfortably.
    3. The muscle must adapt to 'survive'. It grows/gains strength so that it can then handle that stress level (from step #2) comfortably.
    4. The muscle is now at a new 'present' state (a new strength-level, probably new size, etc.)
    5. The muscle now needs a higher stress level than #2, but still a level that is relatively just beyond maximum of what it can handle comfortably.
    6. The muscle must adapt to 'survive'. It grows/gains strength so that it can then handle that stress level (from step #5) comfortably.
    7. etc.......

    Don't you see that it adapts to meet the applied stress, via growth? How can you possibly advance to the stress level in step #5 if it hasn't finished adapting to step #2? If you move on to #5 you probably haven't benefited from all the growth that you can get from #2. You're assuming that the muscle completely adapts to the stress level in #2 before the next workout. That doesn't always happen. That's all I'm saying. That's not stagnating if you're growing from it. I have been at a certain weight on a lift for 2 or 3 weeks but still growing from it, because it's taken that long for my muscles to adapt. The key word is adapt.

    This has become something larger than I expected. If you still disagree with this, I don't know what to say. I laid out physiology 101, plain and simple. Hope this helps
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    Don't forget that besides the physiology u also have the hormones that are responsible for the help in hyper trophy n the nutrition as well will aid too otherwise muscle growth will b hard to come by with only progression in terms of increases in the weights.
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