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  1. #1
    Registered User futurebdny's Avatar
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    p.ts out there.. gaining mass while on a mass building program but a carb deficit?

    my question is the following, can i still gain proper lean mass while on a relatively low carb diet?? im on a 5 day split routine for mass
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  2. #2
    Registered User JulianBee's Avatar
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    As long as you're eating a sufficient amount of calories, you should be able to gain mass.
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  3. #3
    Registered User futurebdny's Avatar
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    thanks
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  4. #4
    community gym PT KyleAaron's Avatar
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    You're 150lbs, you don't need a five-day split.

    Split routines were invented because people were working out so intensely that they couldn't recover in a day or two. So either they needed to work out once a week or split their body up. This was exemplified by guys like Schwarzenegger and Columbu. However, before they did any split routines they could already deadlift 700lbs. Someone who's not even deadlifting 200lbs simply won't be taxing their body intensely enough to require a week's rest between working particular parts of their body.

    Press a plate a side, bench, clean and front squat 2, squat 3 and deadlift 4, and do 10 dead-hang chinups and dips, then a split routine may be useful to you.
    Elite coaching is about getting the last 5% out of a person's performance, personal training is about getting the first 50%.

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  5. #5
    Registered User bigballin6161's Avatar
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    If your diet and training are right you can gain muscle while losing fat.
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  6. #6
    Dereck Palermo1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigballin6161 View Post
    If your diet and training are right you can gain muscle while losing fat.
    This depends on the persons bodyfat and how long they've been training for. Someone training for 4+ years with 12% BF is not likely to gain muscle while on losing fat no matter what kind of diet they're on.
    "In order to succeed you must fail so, don't be afraid to make mistakes."
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  7. #7
    Registered User futurebdny's Avatar
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    sorry guys dnt blast me on this one but my bodyspace hasnt been updated for 3 years, the pics is of me when i was 16 years old at 150, im 19 now nd i weight 180 , im take the ace exam in 2 weeks so i do have knowlegde i just wanted to see your thoughts on gaining mass on a low carb diet...thanks
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  8. #8
    Registered User bigballin6161's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Palermo1 View Post
    This depends on the persons bodyfat and how long they've been training for. Someone training for 4+ years with 12% BF is not likely to gain muscle while on losing fat no matter what kind of diet they're on.
    Sorry but this is wrong. Even at this level you can do this.
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  9. #9
    Dereck Palermo1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigballin6161 View Post
    Sorry but this is wrong. Even at this level you can do this.
    You're wrong lol. Gaining muscle and losing fat are not possible at the same time unless the person is noob or overweight. It can be done with drugs not naturally.
    "In order to succeed you must fail so, don't be afraid to make mistakes."
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  10. #10
    Registered User bigballin6161's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Palermo1 View Post
    You're wrong lol. Gaining muscle and losing fat are not possible at the same time unless the person is noob or overweight. It can be done with drugs not naturally.
    Sorry, you might have misunderstood me. Gaining muscle and loosing fat at the same time is not possible if you don't know what the f*** you are doing.
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  11. #11
    community gym PT KyleAaron's Avatar
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    It's always useful to have the input of anonymous strangers with no proven history of coaching anyone, even themselves.
    Elite coaching is about getting the last 5% out of a person's performance, personal training is about getting the first 50%.

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  12. #12
    Dereck Palermo1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigballin6161 View Post
    Sorry, you might have misunderstood me. Gaining muscle and loosing fat at the same time is not possible if you don't know what the f*** you are doing.
    Please provide such a miracle diet
    "In order to succeed you must fail so, don't be afraid to make mistakes."
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  13. #13
    Eats carbs @ 11pm Simmo0508's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    You're 150lbs, you don't need a five-day split.

    Split routines were invented because people were working out so intensely that they couldn't recover in a day or two. So either they needed to work out once a week or split their body up. This was exemplified by guys like Schwarzenegger and Columbu. However, before they did any split routines they could already deadlift 700lbs. Someone who's not even deadlifting 200lbs simply won't be taxing their body intensely enough to require a week's rest between working particular parts of their body.

    Press a plate a side, bench, clean and front squat 2, squat 3 and deadlift 4, and do 10 dead-hang chinups and dips, then a split routine may be useful to you.
    Have to disagree with this post.

    Just because someone isn't deadlifting 200lbs (or any specific weight, that's a moot point), doesn't mean they aren't doing a heavy enough workout for their own needs and/or doesn't mean their intensity doesn't require rest and recovery like anyone else. If a muscle group is smashed, then yes, recovery and splitting up one's program is effective. If one's trains with volume and intensity, then recovery in a day or two (especially in newbies) is highly unlikely, hence guys split it up to allow more days in between training that area again.

    Gaining weight, even when at 150lbs, is merely a habit of progressive overload, proper rest and recovery and adaption, and most of all a surplus of calories overall on a consistent basis.

    Training for pure mass and training in a bodybuilding fashion, is not like a typical PT scenario with typical PT clients. One can indeed plan a weekly program, smash themselves each workout, eat well, make sure no muscle groups conflict day-by-day, and gain size and move forward.


    OP, you can gain mass if you're low-carbing however only if you're still in a caloric surplus and training hard. If you're doin keto, it's not usually used for bulking but some people don't mind it for that. At your weight dude, smash the carbs. It only helps you. Don't complicate the early stages of your bodybuilding life.
    Last edited by Simmo0508; 05-01-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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  14. #14
    Registered User bigballin6161's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Palermo1 View Post
    Please provide such a miracle diet
    Its not just the diet you would also have to include the proper weight training program, interval training program, and supplementation(mostly during and post workout). For such an advanced person the weight training program would involve many sets of low reps with short rest breaks.
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  15. #15
    Registered User bigballin6161's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    It's always useful to have the input of anonymous strangers with no proven history of coaching anyone, even themselves.
    Why the F do you always have to jump in to my s**** and try to prove me wrong? Just because of your 4000 posts and rep power that dont mean sh**. I was stating that you can gain muscle while losing fat if you dont think you can do that then you better spend more time learning instead of posting on here and giving people bad information.
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  16. #16
    community gym PT KyleAaron's Avatar
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    I'm not saying you're wrong because I have a lot of posts, and because some people were silly enough to bother repping me. I'm saying you're wrong because you're wrong. And because your comments are backed by nothing. When someone comes along anonymously and posts stuff with no evidence from studies or clients that their ideas work, well - we make fun of you.

    If you have evidence from studies, link us to it. If you have evidence from your coaching experience, tell us about that. Put up or shut up, that's how life is when you're a grownup.
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  17. #17
    Dereck Palermo1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigballin6161 View Post
    Its not just the diet you would also have to include the proper weight training program, interval training program, and supplementation(mostly during and post workout). For such an advanced person the weight training program would involve many sets of low reps with short rest breaks.
    I don't think you could fit anymore bro science into one post.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by bigballin6161 View Post
    Its not just the diet you would also have to include the proper weight training program, interval training program, and supplementation(mostly during and post workout). For such an advanced person the weight training program would involve many sets of low reps with short rest breaks.
    You are right and wrong at the same time. Yes it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, but not how you just described. That's bro bull.

    A number of factors are taken into consideration such as genetics and a very precise diet and training programme. Take a look at Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0. This way is very difficult to sustain and the gains are minimal.
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  19. #19
    Registered User bigballin6161's Avatar
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    I am not even gonna argue with you guys anymore if you believe that this can't be done then that is fine. The fact that I have to argue that this can be done is rediculous. I greatly overestimated the caliber of coaches in this section thats all Im gonna say about that.
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  20. #20
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    I have to admit, I always thought that it was impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. However, it is possible. It's just a heck of a lot slower than doing periods of bulking and cutting.
    Not only have I done it myself, but here is a page of testimonials of clients who did Martin Berkhan's LeanGains training with IF dieting.
    http://www.leangains.com/
    Scroll down to the "Results"/"Clients" section. All clients lose fat and gain muscle mass/strength.

    The key is not only an appropriate macronutrient profile, but also nutrient timing. I am surprised to find that many people think that nutrient timing is bogus broscience. It depends on what it is. If you truly understand the way hormones are produced and how they can be manipulated, as well as how protein synthesis occurs, and how the metabolism works, you can in fact control your diet/training so that you gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously (I should qualify that: not exactly simultaneously i.e, at the very same second/minute, but in general i.e, in the same week).
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  21. #21
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    If you can gain muscle without gaining fat, then technically you lowered your bodyfat % without actually losing fat. Does that qualify as building muscle and losing fat at the same time?
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  22. #22
    Registered User futurebdny's Avatar
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    Hey guys thanks for all the info and bro science lmaoo.... As I said before I'm currently 19 years olds and I weight 182lbs so my bodyspace hasn't been updated in 3 years, iam now a certificed P.T and I do see a lot of "bro science" going around which isn't so bad but if ur tryng to state something please back ur **** up! Gaining muscle and losing fat is possible if done correctly and that's what I'm tryng to do that's why the cut on carbs (mainly the garbage carbs)
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  23. #23
    Registered User Theseusz's Avatar
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    Yes. Its about calories. I prefer a higher percentage of calories coming from fat and protein vs carbs and grow and stay lean this way. Some days are more anabolic than others, and if I want to toggle and throw some cardio in I can use that as a fat burning day...
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  24. #24
    Milk is for babies bbrock293's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigballin6161 View Post
    Why the F do you always have to jump in to my s**** and try to prove me wrong? Just because of your 4000 posts and rep power that dont mean sh**. I was stating that you can gain muscle while losing fat if you dont think you can do that then you better spend more time learning instead of posting on here and giving people bad information.
    I chose to stop listening to you once you mentioned the use of supplements and the use of supplements during and post-workout. Any credibility you had just went out the window.
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  25. #25
    CSCS, CPT, WNBF Pro Cytrainer913's Avatar
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    As you train more and more the returns can be less and less as law of diminishing returns come in to play. As stated a newbie can really make greater gains than someone that has been doing this for years. You have made a pretty big improvement from 3 years ago and have put almost 30 lbs, which is great, and now what you do with your day to day eating and how you manipulate your training with lots of varied rep ranges will probably help you to get the little returns you are hoping for. I mean you also have your age that can be a great help as your hormones will be the greatest help along the way with the big three lifts and how you progress in those as these will be the best way to release the the greatest amounts of GH and test within your own body. Back these up with adequate cals and walk that line of just enough cals to be near or just at maintenance and you will be able to see smaller changes as you progress. I also would try and maximize carbs as long as you are dropping bodyfat% as this will also help to retain the muscle you have and create a good anabolic situation than taking them out and going low carb.
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  26. #26
    the milk king tumtum's Avatar
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    no one will ever convince me that one can gain muscle while LOSING bf (who is not a newb, obese, or juicing) maybe adding pure muscle that would in return lower bf% (as stated before).. which is nearly impossible itself

    but.. even if it was possible.. it would be such a slow process of having to be PERFECT that it wouldn't be worth it.. i'd rather just be really close to perfect for a year.. add 5 lbs of mass with 5 lbs of bf.. i mean.. i could been a bit more losse with the diet.. and shed that 5lbs of fat in 3 weeks.. worth it
    Last edited by tumtum; 05-09-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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    yes i've tried doing incline first

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  27. #27
    Dereck Palermo1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tumtum View Post
    no one will ever convince me that one can gain muscle while LOSING bf (who is not a newb, obese, or juicing) maybe adding pure muscle that would in return lower bf% (as stated before).. which nearly impossible itself

    but.. even if it was possible.. it would be such a slow process of having to be PERFECT that it wouldn't be worth it.. i'd rather just be really close to perfect for a year.. add 5 lbs of mass with 5 lbs of bf.. i mean.. i could been a bit more lose with the diet.. and shed that 5lbs of fat in 3 weeks.. worth it
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  28. #28
    CSCS, CPT, WNBF Pro Cytrainer913's Avatar
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    ^^again very true as the process slows just like I said, it's very hard to just have both things going on when one requires a deficit and one requires a surplus and now you have added a good portion of your muscle to your body and the body will respond ever so slowly.
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  29. #29
    Registered User carl.c's Avatar
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    futuredbny: You can loose weight and put on lean muscle mass. Now the reality of it is the vast majorityof people don't have the time or mental forited to do it. Its nice to look on paper and say this will work its another to do it.
    Its not about reduced calorie intake any one who says its that simple is simply not understanding how protiens, carb and fats digest and the caloric energy it takes to digest and transpor them. I blam it on to many people reading fitness mags.
    The best wya to look at it you want to know the nutritional value of the calories your taking in.
    If it was as simple as a calorie is a calorie then you should be able to gain or loose muscle mass and fat mass by eating twinkes or ho ho's so long as you don't go over your caloric limit.
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  30. #30
    Adapt or Die. El Elyon's Avatar
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    Of course losing fat whilst gaining muscle is possible!

    Say i need 3500 cals to fuel, recover and repair my body for that day. I eat 2500 cals because i want to use the 10lbs of fat (or 35,000 calories) as a fuel source too. I eat 2500, my body takes the extra 1000 from the 35,000 i have stored and voila! = I am recover, repaired and have used up 1000 cals of my 35,000 stored.

    I don't see what the confusion is about?

    I stayed at 185lbs over 8 months. But my bf changed from 24% to 15%. Of course its slower the more muscular and leaner we are but it still happens.
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