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Thread: gun control

  1. #1
    Registered User shifter2012's Avatar
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    gun control

    What does the misc think about gun control laws? I got this email today and it got me thinking.

    PEOPLE ASK, WHY?

    Why Carry a Gun?
    My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time
    in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps
    and usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin.'

    I don't carry a gun to kill people.
    I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

    I don't carry a gun to scare people.
    I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a
    scary place.
    I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
    I carry a gun because there are real threats in the
    world.
    I don't carry a gun because I'm evil.
    I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to
    see the evil in the world.

    I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
    I carry a gun because I understand the limitations
    of government.

    I don't carry a gun because I'm angry.
    rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
    I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
    I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old
    age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

    I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy.
    I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven,
    I want to be a cowboy.

    I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
    I carry a gun because men know how to take care of
    themselves and the ones they love.

    I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
    I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three
    armed thugs, I am inadequate..

    I don't carry a gun because I love it.
    I carry a gun because I love life and the people
    who make it meaningful to me.

    Police protection is an oxymoron.
    Free citizens must protect themselves.
    Police do not protect you from crime, they usually
    just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to
    clean up the mess.

    Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to
    die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown
    (but obviously brilliant)

    **********************************************
    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
    From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend
    themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915
    to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
    up and exterminated.
    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from
    1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to
    defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948
    to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves,
    were rounded up and exterminated.
    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From
    1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were
    rounded up and exterminated.
    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971
    to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
    and exterminated.
    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975
    to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were
    rounded up and exterminated.
    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in
    the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
    You won't see this data on the US evening news, or
    hear politicians disseminating this information.

    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and
    property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding
    citizens.

    Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

    The next time someone talks in favor of gun
    control, please remind them of this history lesson.

    With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are
    'subjects'.

    During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade
    America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

    If you value your freedom, please spread this anti
    gun-control message to all of your friends.

    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield, and
    skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain.
    All else is supplemental.

    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
    SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY
    ISSUE A RIFLE.
    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE
    OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

    IT'S A NO BRAINER!
    DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX
    DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

    I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!
    If you are too, please share!

    cliffs
    guns are good
    end
    Machines are evil, haven’t you seen Terminator?!

    Will Rep back all, pm me if i forget
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  2. #2
    Quid est veritas? lasher's Avatar
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    f_cking repped.

    <--- proud gun owner. (Did I mention an unfortunate boating accident I had recently thou?)

    The thought that government should have guns, but people should not, is so idiotic that it boggles the mind.
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    f_cking repped.

    <--- proud gun owner. (Did I mention an unfortunate boating accident I had recently thou?)

    The thought that government should have guns, but people should not, is so idiotic that it boggles the mind.
    thanks bro. will rep back on recharge. I'm surprised more people don't have an opinion.
    Machines are evil, haven’t you seen Terminator?!

    Will Rep back all, pm me if i forget
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    Very pro gun here.
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    762 NATO
    That's all I'm gonna say.
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    As a Brit, I totally agree. And I feel that you should be able to carry it with you, rather than have it locked up in some safety deposit box in a Swiss bank account in Narnia, or some BS. If the majority of citizens are armed and are able to carry them, then crime will drop, or at least can be defended against, because people will actually be able to do something.
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    I think we need to reexamine gun control. Let's be real here, we were given the second amendment back when our country was founded (practically). Times were different back then; more importantly, guns were different back then. The weapons of the day were as follows:

    -smooth-bore muskets that could be fired once every 12-15 seconds if you were highly trained and had an effective range of something like 30 yards....maybe.
    -rifles that were extremely accurate, but took significantly longer to reload. Really only used for hunting and by skirmishers.
    -cannons
    -pistols
    -blunderbusses (you aren't reloading one in combat)
    -and even ****ing swords

    I'm not saying that this is a reason to go for gun control. But the second amendment is dated. The Founding Fathers had no clue what an automatic weapon was or what it is capable of. If we need guns to fight an oppressive power in the guise of our government, wouldn't we need something to take out a jet or a helicopter or an armored vehicle? But I don't think any one thinks civilians should get RPGs.

    I'm pro gun, but there needs to be limits and the second amendment isn't holy. I'm not sure people need AR-15s that they can modify to become fully automatic weapons.
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    Originally Posted by anotheruser View Post
    I'm not sure people need AR-15s that they can modify to become fully automatic weapons.
    i find it funny that behind every pro gun control argument, is ignorance.

    good luck modifying an AR-15 to be fully automatic and getting more than 100 rounds out of it before you destroy the bolt and bolt carrier assembly.

    AR-15s are not designed for full auto fire and the components WILL break.

    also go ahead and tell us how many crimes have been committed in the past 20 years with modified automatic weapons.
    #justiceforzimmerman

    bring charges against the public and political figures who pressured authorities into bringing this farce to trial.
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    Originally Posted by shifter2012 View Post

    cliffs
    guns are good
    end
    I disagree. Guns are indeed not evil, but if guns are good then hammers are good, or cars are good. Tools are tools, it is up to the user to be good or bad. There was never a bad gun(well there were defective and poorly made guns, but I was meaning bad in a good and evil sort of way).

    A gun is a tool, or an item you can use to find enjoyment. It is also a means of self defense, but they are not special, they are one of many tools humans can use to better themselves, or harm themselves. They should neither be put on a pedestal or cast in a pit.
    I think the one point we can all agree on is that even if evolution isn't correct, semitope is still wrong.

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    Hay guise we gots ourselves some new founding fathers, and they will save us from our evil guberment by begging for money on the internet all the while never facing any real threat to their person by the giant, evil, and ruthless government that had zero problem killing around 5k citizens!
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    "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
    George Washington

    "Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
    Thomas Jefferson


    "Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
    Sara Brady
    Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
    The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."

    "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
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    Chancellor, Germany, 1933
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    Originally Posted by NiceBoat View Post
    I disagree. Guns are indeed not evil, but if guns are good then hammers are good, or cars are good. Tools are tools, it is up to the user to be good or bad. There was never a bad gun(well there were defective and poorly made guns, but I was meaning bad in a good and evil sort of way).

    A gun is a tool, or an item you can use to find enjoyment. It is also a means of self defense, but they are not special, they are one of many tools humans can use to better themselves, or harm themselves. They should neither be put on a pedestal or cast in a pit.
    Well put that an item can't be good or bad, it is how it is used. Good people don't use guns for crime and bad people do. Tools are tools and should be just that. Also I am very surprised how pro gun the misc is. All the alpha males I have spoken to about the issue seem very pro gun too.
    Machines are evil, haven’t you seen Terminator?!

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    Originally Posted by anotheruser View Post
    I think we need to reexamine gun control. Let's be real here, we were given the second amendment back when our country was founded (practically). Times were different back then; more importantly, guns were different back then. The weapons of the day were as follows:

    -smooth-bore muskets that could be fired once every 12-15 seconds if you were highly trained and had an effective range of something like 30 yards....maybe.
    -rifles that were extremely accurate, but took significantly longer to reload. Really only used for hunting and by skirmishers.
    -cannons
    -pistols
    -blunderbusses (you aren't reloading one in combat)
    -and even ****ing swords

    I'm not saying that this is a reason to go for gun control. But the second amendment is dated. The Founding Fathers had no clue what an automatic weapon was or what it is capable of. If we need guns to fight an oppressive power in the guise of our government, wouldn't we need something to take out a jet or a helicopter or an armored vehicle? But I don't think any one thinks civilians should get RPGs.

    I'm pro gun, but there needs to be limits and the second amendment isn't holy. I'm not sure people need AR-15s that they can modify to become fully automatic weapons.
    Funny how even though we kinda disagree you aren't totally against people owning and carrying guns (unless I didn't under your viewpoint)
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
    George Washington

    "Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
    Thomas Jefferson


    "Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
    Sara Brady
    Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
    The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."

    "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
    Adolph Hitler
    Chancellor, Germany, 1933
    God of mother... are those two last quotes real life??? repped. (will buy more guns after reading those quotes, lol)
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    God of mother... are those two last quotes real life??? repped. (will buy more guns after reading those quotes, lol)
    Sara Brady, of the "brady gun control campaign" fame, the largest anti-gun group, whom was behind the Clinton assault weapon ban:

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights."

    "The House passage of our bill is a victory for this country! Common sense wins out. I'm just so thrilled and excited. The sale of guns must stop. Halfway measures are not enough."


    On occasion, she needs to soften things up, because talking about socialism can really hurt you in the US, so she'll say things like this every now and then, to put peoples minds at ease:

    "Unless they're a fugitive or a felon, or adjudicated mentally ill, we're not against them buying guns at all."

    ^Essentially agreeing with laws that are already in place^

    then:

    "We must get rid of all the guns."


    She's essentially an openly socialistic nutbag whos husband was shot during the attempt on president reagan life in 1981. In true nutbag fasion, she doesnt understand that criminals will continue to simply break the law, as if, intending to shoot the president would be affected at all by any sort of law, since, ya know, murdering the president is illegal to begin with.

    Misguided personal beliefs intermingled with misguided knee-jerk reactions to a personal crisis.....it happens, but in this case the amount of power they wield is incredible.
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    I would say she's an authoritarian.
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    All of us, even the devout "anti" for the most part agree:

    You should be able to hunt, and own a sporting arm.

    Having a hand gun should be legal, should you meet age and criminal requirements

    Going to the range and plinking with a 22 is no big deal.

    The anti-gun bodies like the Brady Center are absolutely insane though. I dont think most "gun control" people know what the support they lend actually does. Most gun control people actually think I should be able to own a little target pistol and go to the range from time to time, despite the shades of grey/black concerning carrying a gun in public.

    Not sarah brady, no sir, guns are the devil and they should all be melted down and turned into wheel-chair spokes for her crippled husband.
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    God of mother... are those two last quotes real life??? repped. (will buy more guns after reading those quotes, lol)
    Both quotes are 100% legit. There are elite Russian troops in the US being trained by our special forces. What these people have in mind would be a lot easier if you could label all of former combat vets as terrorists and pick us up in the middle of night never to be seen again and then disarm everyone else.
    "One man with a gun can control 100 without one." Vladimir Lenin

    In before Nutsy says "There's nothing to worry about. The great and powerful Oz has everything under control"

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    Originally Posted by anotheruser View Post
    I think we need to reexamine gun control. Let's be real here, we were given the second amendment back when our country was founded (practically). Times were different back then; more importantly, guns were different back then. The weapons of the day were as follows:

    -smooth-bore muskets that could be fired once every 12-15 seconds if you were highly trained and had an effective range of something like 30 yards....maybe.
    -rifles that were extremely accurate, but took significantly longer to reload. Really only used for hunting and by skirmishers.
    -cannons
    -pistols
    -blunderbusses (you aren't reloading one in combat)
    -and even ****ing swords

    I'm not saying that this is a reason to go for gun control. But the second amendment is dated. The Founding Fathers had no clue what an automatic weapon was or what it is capable of. If we need guns to fight an oppressive power in the guise of our government, wouldn't we need something to take out a jet or a helicopter or an armored vehicle? But I don't think any one thinks civilians should get RPGs.

    I'm pro gun, but there needs to be limits and the second amendment isn't holy. I'm not sure people need AR-15s that they can modify to become fully automatic weapons.
    The primary purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure the government couldn overpower the people. it says arms, not guns.

    Founders felt we should all be living like the michigan militia.
    I define anarchist society as one where there is no legal possibility for coercive aggression against the person or property of an individual. - Rothbard

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    Originally Posted by jxm26 View Post
    lol
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    "I would die defending my 2nd amendment right, would you die trying to take it from me?"

    i love that quote
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    The primary purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure the government couldn overpower the people. it says arms, not guns.

    Founders felt we should all be living like the michigan militia.
    The founders were right.
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    The founders were right.
    They were in a sense, but at the same time it's ironic to claim a government is necessary for safety and such an enormous threat all at the same time.
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    They were in a sense, but at the same time it's ironic to claim a government is necessary for safety and such an enormous threat all at the same time.
    Food is required to live. Over-excessive, uncontrolled eating can harm & kill you. Not ironic at all, just reality.


    - "Gun control" (in the assumed 'nobody can have them' sense) only ensures that criminals are armed - and that innocent victims are banned from their most effective defense, regardless of which weapon their attacker has chosen (gun, knife, brick, words).

    - Any politician who desires a defenseless population should be questioned and feared.
    - "How do those guys on submarines hold their breath for so long?" - Kelly Bundy
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    I am from Denmark, and have a completely different perspective on topics like Gun Control than most Americans.

    I think the question of guns and gun control needs to be discussed within their societal context to make any sense. Allow me to explain:

    In Denmark, I would NEVER vote for people's rights to carry arms - it would be absolute insanity over here. What do we need them for? The American argument is that criminals will ALWAYS be able to get a gun, no matter what, so outlawing them would only hurt citizens. So obviously seen from that perspective, you would also need a gun to protect yourself, which creates an arms race. He brings a knife, I must have a knife, he brings a gun, I must have a gun, he brings an RPG I must get a fighterjet etc.

    But over here the reality is different. Getting a gun is not impossible, but it's not easy at all, because there is hardly any guns in circulation in the first place. So criminals use knives instead. Also, since we have a lot less deranged people over here (probably due to being a very small nation of just 5 million people, so not that much genetic variance), criminals are very unlikely to actually harm you, rather than to just grab your money and flee. They don't really WANT to harm you most of the time, they just want your stuff and be done with and avoid trouble.

    So guns over here is the dumbest thing you can imagine, it would only escalate the nature of the violence.

    But if you ask me if I would vote for gun control in the US? Not a chance. I would definitely try and get a gun permit if I ever moved over there, and I believe it's important for you guys to have it. Psychopathic killers are everywhere, violent crime rates are sky high, there are millions and millions of guns in circulation, there is massive hardcore gang activity and other organized crime, and the chance of getting harmed, robbed or killed is much much higher in the US than in Denmark. Thus it's very important for you to be able to carry a weapon to protect yourself and your family at all costs. You seem to tackle these responsibilities on an individual/personal level, while in Denmark we carry these responsibilities in the communities. We have faith that the state and the people can solve these problems together locally (and the problems are very small and insignificant compared to the US), and make it safe for us to live freely. And it largely is - our model works pretty good. It's really damn safe over here. So gun control would never work for you, but it works perfectly in our model.

    Just taking gun control as an example, could also apply it to health care, wealth distribution and so on. It all comes down to what type of life you want to live, and what type of core values your society is build upon. Denmark is the happiest country in the world (scientifically proven), and the people's welfare is one of our core values, so we are proud of that. We generally trust each other more, and have more trust in government (which again is justified considering we have the lowest corruption index in the world as well). So those values override the value of having, for example, a free market and the benefits that brings, as that usually leads to bigger social inequality due to greed and corporatism, which leads to a larger social divide in people and generally more unhappiness.

    We simply live differently, with different values. And which model is better is highly subjective and depends what you want out of life and what you wish society to be.

    This is the perspective from a nation with very heavy control of weapons, and quite happy that it is this way.
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    Originally Posted by NiceBoat View Post
    I disagree. Guns are indeed not evil, but if guns are good then hammers are good, or cars are good. Tools are tools, it is up to the user to be good or bad. There was never a bad gun(well there were defective and poorly made guns, but I was meaning bad in a good and evil sort of way).

    A gun is a tool, or an item you can use to find enjoyment. It is also a means of self defense, but they are not special, they are one of many tools humans can use to better themselves, or harm themselves. They should neither be put on a pedestal or cast in a pit.
    Can a hammer or a car empower you the way a gun can?



    Benghazi: A Libyan man raises his AK47 gun, with an US flag, ahead of the Friday noon prayer on June 17, 2011, in the Libyan rebel-stronghold city of Benghazi. (AFP Photo / Gianluigi Guercia)

    Last edited by Tekkendo; 04-28-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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