"feeling" blood sugar levels.

[BritInRo]

Hi, just a casual question if i may.

I often hear perfectly healthy people talk about their sugar crashes or low blood sugar levels.

I've just spent several hours trying to find some information i had read by a doctor specializing in Diabetes who said that the average healthy person cannot "feel" their blood sugar level rise or fall even after a very heavy carb laden meal. Unfortunately i can't find the article again. I also remember he said that those symptoms they reported of dizziness/weakness/tiredness etc would be actual symptoms from hypoglycemia which simply doesn't happen to healthy people outside of extremes such as exposure to high or low temperatures and very extreme physical exertion for long periods.

However whilst searching i found literally hundreds of websites saying that yes of course you can "feel" blood sugar levels, as well as the usual information that you should eat many small meals to maintain a constant stream of blood sugar to avoid crashes, being aware of Alan Aragon and Martin Berkhans work i understand the facts of meal frequency/fasting/meal timing so i can disregard the many small meals thing.

The question still remains though, can the average healthy person "feel" their blood sugar level, even after a heavy meal?

And if not then what exactly is causing the feeling of weakness/tiredness/dizziness people report after eating or not having eaten for a few hours?

I'm interested in sourced information rather than just opinion, if anyone can help, thanks.

[dmacdonal9]

I think there's a big difference between becoming hungry after having not eaten in awhile versus the feeling of a slump after a sugar rush.

If I have a macro-balanced meal that fills me up, I will slowly become hungry, but typically I won't crash. The crash comes after a carb-heavy meal.

I think it's this very mechanism that makes people believe so strongly in keto diets.

[SuffolkPunch]

Unless you have a serious medical condition, your blood sugar is actually maintained in a very narrow band.

BUT you can 'feel' the presence of hormones such as insulin. There are lot of people who have varying degrees of success with metabolising carbs... for example, I get reactive hypoglycemia which is most noticeable when I'm dieting. If I eat some fast digesting carbs then I feel very sluggish about .5-1 hours afterwards. Later still, I'll have aching legs and light headedness, I have even been dizzy enough to be unable to stand up. This is most likely down to overproduction of insulin due to my bodys slow response to it.

The solution is to rely more of fat as a source of energy. Since your body always uses carbs preferentially, you have to reduce them to a bare minimum - BUT you can't get rid of them entirely if you want to perform well in the gym. The soluition is the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. This has been better than steroids to me... other people get no benefit from it.

[BritInRo]

I think there's a big difference between becoming hungry after having not eaten in awhile versus the feeling of a slump after a sugar rush.

If I have a macro-balanced meal that fills me up, I will slowly become hungry, but typically I won't crash. The crash comes after a carb-heavy meal.

I think it's this very mechanism that makes people believe so strongly in keto diets.

Unless you have a serious medical condition, your blood sugar is actually maintained in a very narrow band.

BUT you can 'feel' the presence of hormones such as insulin. There are lot of people who have varying degrees of success with metabolising carbs... for example, I get reactive hypoglycemia which is most noticeable when I'm dieting. If I eat some fast digesting carbs then I feel very sluggish about .5-1 hours afterwards. Later still, I'll have aching legs and light headedness, I have even been dizzy enough to be unable to stand up. This is most likely down to overproduction of insulin due to my bodys slow response to it.

The solution is to rely more of fat as a source of energy. Since your body always uses carbs preferentially, you have to reduce them to a bare minimum - BUT you can't get rid of them entirely if you want to perform well in the gym. The soluition is the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. This has been better than steroids to me... other people get no benefit from it.

Do either of you have evidence for this? Thanks for replying.

[SuffolkPunch]

Do either of you have evidence for this? Thanks for replying.

Evidence for what? The existence of reactive hypoglycemia?

[BritInRo]

Unless you have a serious medical condition, your blood sugar is actually maintained in a very narrow band.

BUT you can 'feel' the presence of hormones such as insulin. There are lot of people who have varying degrees of success with metabolising carbs... for example, I get reactive hypoglycemia which is most noticeable when I'm dieting. If I eat some fast digesting carbs then I feel very sluggish about .5-1 hours afterwards. Later still, I'll have aching legs and light headedness, I have even been dizzy enough to be unable to stand up. This is most likely down to overproduction of insulin due to my bodys slow response to it.

The solution is to rely more of fat as a source of energy. Since your body always uses carbs preferentially, you have to reduce them to a bare minimum - BUT you can't get rid of them entirely if you want to perform well in the gym. The soluition is the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. This has been better than steroids to me... other people get no benefit from it.

Evidence for what? The existence of reactive hypoglycemia?

No, but that it can be caused by a large carbohydrate meal in an averagely healthy non-diabetic individual. Also that its possible to "feel" the presence of Insulin.

You have been diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia or you have self-diagnosed? Would you say that if you do get reactive hypoglycemia, that whilst not a diabetic obviously, that you have a "condition" or a set of circumstances that would preclude you from being considered an "average healthy person" with regards to being able to "feel" your blood sugar levels?

If that comes across as offensive, i simply mean if i was to eat a large meal of simple carbs lets say, i feel absolutely no difference in anything i would consider to possibly be my blood sugar level.

Also while its not directly relevant in some ways, obviously diabetics need to use a blood testing kit in order to know their blood sugar levels, which would lead me to presume that outside of a serious mishap they cannot "feel" their blood sugar levels either.

Thanks again for replying, and i apologise if my questions/terminology are confusing.

[SuffolkPunch]

Self diagnosed - via many years of diet experimentation. I understand the difference between jumping to conclusions based on 1 or 2 occurrences of vague symptoms - and a systematic analysis of the situation over time.

It is a medical condition. My family has a history of overweight and onset type II diabetes. Diabetes usually develops in later life in response to overweight/poor diet habits but some people are more prone to this happening than others - this trait is inherited. It can also be reversed by low calorie and low carb diets. So I think I am spot on in my diagnosis.

If you don't get the same problem then you probably have a healthy glucose metabolism...

[BritInRo]

Self diagnosed - via many years of diet experimentation. I understand the difference between jumping to conclusions based on 1 or 2 occurrences of vague symptoms - and a systematic analysis of the situation over time.

It is a medical condition. My family has a history of overweight and onset type II diabetes. Diabetes usually develops in later life in response to overweight/poor diet habits but some people are more prone to this happening than others - this trait is inherited. It can also be reversed by low calorie and low carb diets. So I think I am spot on in my diagnosis.

If you don't get the same problem then you probably have a healthy glucose metabolism...

So in your case you would say in certain circumstances you can feel your blood sugar level, and thats mainly because your glucose metabolism is less than average/healthy and takes your blood sugar level out of whats considered a normal range? I would certainly consider that possible.

If so then my search continues. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, good luck with your diet, i hope it continues to work for you mate. cheers

[SuffolkPunch]

So in your case you would say in certain circumstances you can feel your blood sugar level, and thats mainly because your glucose metabolism is less than average/healthy and takes your blood sugar level out of whats considered a normal range? I would certainly consider that possible.

If so then my search continues. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, good luck with your diet, i hope it continues to work for you mate. cheers

I couldn't say if the feelings were caused by the presence of hormones or by blood sugar becoming too low. If I had to guess, I would say that insulin makes people feel tired/sluggish (most people seem to notice this) but the later symptoms of sore legs/dizzyness and anxiety are caused by blood sugar becoming too low.

[dmacdonal9]

i simply mean if i was to eat a large meal of simple carbs lets say, i feel absolutely no difference in anything i would consider to possibly be my blood sugar level.

See now, I find that interesting. To be honest, I have always noticed this effect in myself, and I had (perhaps mistakenly) assumed that most other folks noticed a similar effect. I suppose it could certainly be true that whatever effect is at work here is more severe for me than for others. I also have a history of diabetes in my family (both parents and one set of grandparents).

[BritInRo]

See now, I find that interesting. To be honest, I have always noticed this effect in myself, and I had (perhaps mistakenly) assumed that most other folks noticed a similar effect. I suppose it could certainly be true that whatever effect is at work here is more severe for me than for others. I also have a history of diabetes in my family (both parents and one set of grandparents).

Hey, thanks for joining in.
You mean you can feel a difference that you currently assume to be a change in blood sugar level having eaten a large carb meal?

I can feel a general tiredness/weakness after a very large meal occasionally, but as i can get that from just meat with no carbs, i've never considered it to be blood sugar related.

thanks

[SuffolkPunch]

Hey, thanks for joining in.
You mean you can feel a difference that you currently assume to be a change in blood sugar level having eaten a large carb meal?

I can feel a general tiredness/weakness after a very large meal occasionally, but as i can get that from just meat with no carbs, i've never considered it to be blood sugar related.

thanks

Protein will produce an insulin response...

(more speculation coming up) I find that eating protein on its own can make me feel a little light headed. If I eat some fruit or other small amount of carbs then that seems to mitigate the effect. I have heard the theory that you need to supply the insulin with something to work on. Although this is slightly dodgy because insulin response should be in proportion to the amount you eat.

[fade2green514]

I'm just going to throw this out there.... firstly: if you've been to over 100 websites, I doubt ill be able to find evidence.

Secondly: I find that half the scientists and doctors say is due to the fact that they are paid or they make money off of saying what they say. Then 75% of the other half are not even researching stuff or making claims. That is not to say they are wrong, just that they have their own opinion just like any of us.

Anyways, I can offer my opinion. And that is that I cannot feel my blood sugar level.

I can however feel when my body goes into ketosis because I tend to breathe a little bit more heavily when I'm doing physical labor. This only happens after multiple days of cutting when I'm fasting in the morning.

Also, if I eat way too many carbs (and/or protein, which the body can convert into carbs) I get very sleepy just like the next person, although that may be due to my bodies reaction trying to make me rest so it can digest more efficiently.

[BritInRo]

Protein will produce an insulin response...

(more speculation coming up) I find that eating protein on its own can make me feel a little light headed. If I eat some fruit or other small amount of carbs then that seems to mitigate the effect. I have heard the theory that you need to supply the insulin with something to work on. Although this is slightly dodgy because insulin response should be in proportion to the amount you eat.

Correct on protein causes an insulin response. For the rest i find the whole subject of Insulin incredibly complicated and any attempt to really understand has left my limited intelligence struggling.

I eat, i lift, i adjust calories to gain muscle or lose fat and knowing little about Insulin doesn't worry me so much.

But the question of being able to feel blood sugar levels is making me crazyyyyyy

[BritInRo]

I'm just going to throw this out there.... firstly: if you've been to over 100 websites, I doubt ill be able to find evidence.

Secondly: I find that half the scientists and doctors say is due to the fact that they are paid or they make money off of saying what they say. Then 75% of the other half are not even researching stuff or making claims. That is not to say they are wrong, just that they have their own opinion just like any of us.

Anyways, I can offer my opinion. And that is that I cannot feel my blood sugar level.

I can however feel when my body goes into ketosis because I tend to breathe a little bit more heavily when I'm doing physical labor. This only happens after multiple days of cutting when I'm fasting in the morning.

Also, if I eat way too many carbs (and/or protein, which the body can convert into carbs) I get very sleepy just like the next person, although that may be due to my bodies reaction trying to make me rest so it can digest more efficiently.

Hi, well someone better at searching than me might be able to find something. I had to stop after reading the same old thing that sounded like it had been lifted from dr. oz or oprah winfry nutrition advice and no actual evidence anywhere.

It leads me to think that maybe...

1. my question is just stupid.

2. We can feel blood sugar levels, and that is so obvious no one has felt the need to produce proof.

3. We can't feel blood sugar levels and those websites saying we can are just cretinous.

4. Small parts of any or none from the above 3.

[SuffolkPunch]

By coincidence, I saw a program on BBC TV last night called "Bang goes the theory" where they talked about blood sugar and how metabolic hormones make you feel. They confirmed that it's the hormone that gives you the feeling of tiredness, not an actual change in blood sugar level.

[BritInRo]

By coincidence, I saw a program on BBC TV last night called "Bang goes the theory" where they talked about blood sugar and how metabolic hormones make you feel. They confirmed that it's the hormone that gives you the feeling of tiredness, not an actual change in blood sugar level.

I managed to find that episode, i'll give it a watch in the next hour or so, thanks.

[BritInRo]

Well i just watched it. According to the expert (from Kings College Hospital) on the show blood sugar levels stay within the tightly controlled limits required by the body, this was shown as a more or less straightish red line with small waves in it corresponding to meal/snack times. A black line then zig zagged which represented Insulin release. The professor then said it was probably insulin causing the drowsiness/crash feeling, but also Ghrelin plays a part.

Any comments?

[BritInRo]

small bump

[SuffolkPunch]

On ghrelin:

http://www.leangains.com/2009/08/ghr...-patterns.html

[StoliFun]

I dated a type 1 diabetic (i.e. the kind where your own antibodies kill the insulin secreting cells in your pancreas) in college. She rolled her eyes whenever anyone complained about their "low blood sugar" even though they were perfectly healthy. One time, her father was driving the family somewhere, and bitching about having low blood sugar because he was really hungry. She told him he was fine, just hungry as hell, and he said something like, "Don't tell me how I'm feeling. I have a condition, I know it."

She took out her kit and tested his blood sugar - it was perfect.

[BritInRo]

I dated a type 1 diabetic (i.e. the kind where your own antibodies kill the insulin secreting cells in your pancreas) in college. She rolled her eyes whenever anyone complained about their "low blood sugar" even though they were perfectly healthy. One time, her father was driving the family somewhere, and bitching about having low blood sugar because he was really hungry. She told him he was fine, just hungry as hell, and he said something like, "Don't tell me how I'm feeling. I have a condition, I know it."

She took out her kit and tested his blood sugar - it was perfect.

I think everyone hears something very similar in the offices of every workplace everyday. Strange how this all started. Cheers for replying.