SL 5x5 question

[kkuhl10]

If i'm doing the SL 5x5 program, would it be ok to do some isolation excersizes after the core lifts? not much, just some arms or traps or calves. and would it also be ok to do some abs on off days? or would this somehow affect my gains negatively.

Your advice will be greatly appreciated.
-Kevin

[Jasonk282]

Probably chinups only. No need for iso work when you are benching, pressing and pulling heavy weights...your traps will get hit with deads, arms with bench, OHP and rows and your calves will get hit with squats.

[friggencolossal]

I agree with Jasonk282

The idea of the 5x5 routine is to focus on mass building all of your large muscle groups for X amount of time. I know it sucks but the benefits you gain are nuts! its right what they say; if your not gaining while doing the 5x5 routine then your doing something wrong... back when I was health(ier) I did this routine twice, unfortunately I did stop both times. but there was an absolute difference in strength gains no doubts about that. My bench press, and dead lift sky rocketed in particular.

If your like me and you want to throw in more because your "bored" please resist. that's why I stopped the routine twice. I'd finish my workout in under an hour and say "that's it?" Its suppose to not tire you so you have ample energy to do this routine 3-4 times a week for 6-8 weeks.

[kkuhl10]

Thanks for the responses guys. should I hold off on doing core work also? I know my core will get hit with most of those lifts but I wanna work out more than this lol

[Jasonk282]

Thanks for the responses guys. should I hold off on doing core work also? I know my core will get hit with most of those lifts but I wanna work out more than this lol

then do a different program...this one is not for you.

[kkuhl10]

definately gonna do the program, just wanted to know if itd be ok

[Jasonk282]

definately gonna do the program, just wanted to know if itd be ok

no and it will cut into your strength gains after a while.

[friggencolossal]

Hate to say it but once again I agree with Jackson282

Trust me man I know how you feel. When I did this routine I'd want to stay in the gym and work out like a sun of gun. I'd look in the mirror and see less of a pump, didn't get that glorified sore feeling that made you feel like you couldn't open your car door, let alone drive it. I'd have to force myself to leave the gym after one hour of working out.

BUT one thing that holds true. after a week of doing this routine I needed to drastically increase my diet, I was hungry ALL THE TIME. that right there should tell you about the calorie demands they warn you about before starting the routine. I know what its like to want to go hardcore, to go balls to the walls on every lift and rep you do. trust what experienced people are saying if you go balls to the walls your going to wind up tired and over worked after the third week, if even.

save the balls to the walls workout for when you go back to isolation/split routines. one thing that helped me was to focus on every single rep you do. focus on getting the most out of each lift, specially the negatives. this might help curb you want to do more work

stick with it you'll like it

[Jasonk282]

after about a month when you squat gets over 200lbs....just doing all 3 workout will take you an hour.

[kkuhl10]

Hate to say it but once again I agree with Jackson282

Trust me man I know how you feel. When I did this routine I'd want to stay in the gym and work out like a sun of gun. I'd look in the mirror and see less of a pump, didn't get that glorified sore feeling that made you feel like you couldn't open your car door, let alone drive it. I'd have to force myself to leave the gym after one hour of working out.

BUT one thing that holds true. after a week of doing this routine I needed to drastically increase my diet, I was hungry ALL THE TIME. that right there should tell you about the calorie demands they warn you about before starting the routine. I know what its like to want to go hardcore, to go balls to the walls on every lift and rep you do. trust what experienced people are saying if you go balls to the walls your going to wind up tired and over worked after the third week, if even.

save the balls to the walls workout for when you go back to isolation/split routines. one thing that helped me was to focus on every single rep you do. focus on getting the most out of each lift, specially the negatives. this might help curb you want to do more work

stick with it you'll like it

Thanks for the reply man, I didnt know there were negatives involved in the program tho

[kkuhl10]

after about a month when you squat gets over 200lbs....just doing all 3 workout will take you an hour.

Lol my squats are already over 300... I just stopped getting good gains from the routine I was doing and wanted to try something else. Im used to working out 5-6 days a week so its gonna be weird only doing 9 lifts a week

[MichaelCJ]

If you're already squatting 3 plates with good form, that's about where I might think about looking elsewhere, personally. 140/100/180 (in kg) is my own take on that, fwiw. So, 3/2/4 plates. But in general, it's more about when you plateau, I guess.

Maybe check out 5/3/1? It's (typically) a 4-day "split" (kinda). Each day is dedicated to a core lift - OHP, DL, BP and SQ - with some other stuff to further strengthen those lifts, and to make sure you're well balanced. There are a few templates, so it's very adaptable indeed. And with every one of those templates, you can choose your own "supplemental" exercises. So yeah, ths norm is to make it your own.

The templates range from 1 exercise per day (srs) to 4. But keep in mind that there is some serious volume here anyway (with all of those with 3 or 4 a day, which is the majority). 5 sets of 10-20 reps or so, times whatever, in some cases, for example!

Or yeah, another "intermediate" program might appeal more. Plenty to read about, if you search.

[Engineer_Guy]

If i'm doing the SL 5x5 program, would it be ok to do some isolation excersizes after the core lifts? not much, just some arms or traps or calves. and would it also be ok to do some abs on off days? or would this somehow affect my gains negatively.

Your advice will be greatly appreciated.
-Kevin

Ab work, back extensions, calf raises, and curls would all be fine to add to SL 5x5. I'm sure plenty of people will parrot "don't touch the program". I'd ignore them. If you want to add a few iso's then do it.

[MichaelCJ]

Ab work, back extensions, calf raises, and curls would all be fine to add to SL 5x5. I'm sure plenty of people will parrot "don't touch the program". I'd ignore them. If you want to add a few iso's then do it.

Also, this (if you want do to try / stick with 5x5).

Those who say nothing should ever be added to something like SS or SL don't know what the hell they're talking about. Ideally, in the case of SS, the program as written will work perfectly for any given "novice" lifter, with any set of circumstances, and any kind of background whatsoever. Cool. To assume that's always going to be the case is a bit of a stretch, let's just say. And not only that, but SS changes as the weeks and months pass, by default. It's in the damn book (which it would help if those talking about the program could, y'know, READ). And last, but by no means least, it's left at the reader's judgement as to what they might want to add, and when. Various optional lifts are in the book, as some examples, just for starters. And they're detailed quite a bit, which would be a little odd, if no-one was ever expected to add them...

I don't know quite enough about SL - for instance, whether it changes in time as well - to comment. But regardless, there's certainly room with three lifts a day, three times a week, for some extra stuff, should someone determine that it'd be best for them.

[kkuhl10]

thanks for your input guys. very helpful

[james0566]

you're already squatting 300lbs....you'll never be able to recover from 5 sets across, 3 times a week

besides, beginner SL5x5 is a bastardized form of Starting Strength and Bill Starr's 5x5....thats inferior to either program

[kkuhl10]

you're already squatting 300lbs....you'll never be able to recover from 5 sets across, 3 times a week

besides, beginner SL5x5 is a bastardized form of Starting Strength and Bill Starr's 5x5....thats inferior to either program

Will this mean that I wont get as good of results? Im not too worried about recovery because Im gonna be running dark matter and BCAAs along with a mass gainer. And to be honest I looked at Bill Starrs 5x5 and its pretty much the same thing in terms of the lifts, ill probably be doing a hybrid of those two programs

[HevEw8]

you're already squatting 300lbs....you'll never be able to recover from 5 sets across, 3 times a week

besides, beginner SL5x5 is a bastardized form of Starting Strength and Bill Starr's 5x5....thats inferior to either program

If that is your work capacity then why would you not be able to recover from that?

I squat 315x5 and have worked up to 385x5 in the past with that program. Never had an issue with recovery, thats the point of the 4 week deload and periodization in general.

we arent talking about 600+ lb raw squats here...

[james0566]

Will this mean that I wont get as good of results? Im not too worried about recovery because Im gonna be running dark matter and BCAAs along with a mass gainer. And to be honest I looked at Bill Starrs 5x5 and its pretty much the same thing in terms of the lifts, ill probably be doing a hybrid of those two programs

there's a BIG difference between the two. Bill Starr's routines have you ramping sets or working in percentages throughout the week, to try and keep down excessive fatigue

[kkuhl10]

there's a BIG difference between the two. Bill Starr's routines have you ramping sets or working in percentages throughout the week, to try and keep down excessive fatigue

Yea man I know, I was just saying that the lifts that are performed in both programs are the same

[james0566]

If that is your work capacity then why would you not be able to recover from that?

I squat 315x5 and have worked up to 385x5 in the past with that program. Never had an issue with recovery, thats the point of the 4 week deload and periodization in general.

we arent talking about 600+ lb raw squats here...

Mendhi (or whatever the guys name is) may have changed the program in the last couple of years. I know he changed it to 3x5 after you stall on 5x5... he changed after so many people commented about the 5x5's across throughout the program, being absurd

[Engineer_Guy]

Bill Starr's 5x5 is ramping sets going from 50-100% top set weight. Madcows (Pendlay's) 5x5 works similarly.

Stronglifts starts out as 5x5 sets across. Becomes 3x5 after 2 stalls. Then becomes 1x5 after 2 more stalls.

Starting Strength starts at 3x5 sets across and never changes.

And for what it's worth, Reg Parks 5x5 is done with 2 heavy warm up sets around 60% and 80% of your working sets followed by 3x5 sets across at your working weight. The program starts with squats, bench, dead lifts and weight is added every successful workout.

Stronglifts may be a rip off of Starting Strength but the idea of linear progression with heavy compounds has existed as early as the 50's. Phase 1 of Park's 5x5 is very similar to SS.

[james0566]

Then becomes 1x5 after 2 more

Then he has changed the program again... Somewhat my point... Hes program had obvious flaws and he keeps changing it as people complain

He use to post here... He doesn't anymore... He wasn't well excepted

[Engineer_Guy]

Then he has changed the program again... Somewhat my point... Hes program had obvious flaws and he keeps changing it as people complain

He use to post here... He doesn't anymore... He wasn't well excepted

Yea but who cares? The concepts of SS and SL have existed for years. Reg Park was doing this sh*t back in the 50's and 60's.

Call it "Stronglifts" or "Starting Strength with Rows" or whatever you want. The formula is the same: Do big compound lift for a couple sets of 5 and add weight next workout if you complete all the sets.