Stuborn cellulite - no muscle underneath?

[wakechica]

Ok, so I've been at this now a while. I've seen results and I'm the smallest I've ever been measurements wise but a couple of kgs heavier than normal.
I can see the top 2 of my abs and I still have a little bit of stubborn left on top of the bottom 4. My legs have seen the most - I had a lot of cellulite from my thyroid problem. And it's all dropped off; i can barely pinch the skin relaxed. HOWEVER - I still have that inch wide strip of cellulite on the sides. I had a picture to post but photobucket ain't playing ball today. Having looked at the musculorskeletal system, there doesn't appear to be any muscle under where I have the cellulite. If I tense my legs it looks freaking awful. You can just see this band of lumps whilst everywhere else on my legs is smooth and just showing musclular definition.

My questions:
1. If I were to bulk, would this help?
2. Is there anything I can add to my routine which could help build muscle in that area?
3. Am I just going to have to go HIIT crazy to get rid?
4. Or is this just going to take more time?

I will bulk if it will help....a slow bulk none the less.

[Miranda]

My questions:
1. If I were to bulk, would this help?
2. Is there anything I can add to my routine which could help build muscle in that area?
3. Am I just going to have to go HIIT crazy to get rid?
4. Or is this just going to take more time?

1. no. it's the stubborn saddlebag area, and it's fat.
2. no.
3. you need to drop bodyfat and the saddlebags will drop with it, albeit sloowly. you can implement sprints now, but if you're fatter, the body will preferentially drop most fat elsewhere first, no matter what you do. so they're a-okayish of sorts.
4. yes.

[bosgirlin09]

When I competed last fall, the fat/cellulite on my thighs was the last to go. I will say at around 15-16%BF there was no cellulite. But it took that much to lose it. I'm at around 19-20% BF now, and I have to say I think I have far less cellulite there than I did before going into my cut last fall. So maybe there is hope of getting rid of it somewhat permanently, lol..

[freebirdmac]

Increasing muscle in the posterior chain will help how the saddlebag area looks. When you've leaned out to the point where your upper body is depleted, that is your only course of action. If you choose to continue leaning out there's no need go HIIT crazy or do any at all. Let your diet work. You're at a point where losing 1 pound a week is not practical. More like 0.5 pounds.

What exercises are you doing now? Keep in mind it's unlikely you'll add much mass while at a deficit. It'll take a bulk to do that.

[5more]

I also have cellulite. A tan helps hide it.

[Miranda]

Increasing muscle in the posterior chain will help how the saddlebag area looks. When you've leaned out to the point where your upper body is depleted, that is your only course of action. Increasing muscle in the posterior chain will help how the saddlebag area looks. When you've leaned out to the point where your upper body is depleted, that is your only course of action. If you choose to continue leaning out there's no need go HIIT crazy or do any at all. Let your diet work.

i disagree. the fat pockets in the area OP referred to won't change with added muscle in the hams/glutes. yes, your legs will look a lot more shapely and defined et cetera, but it won't make those pockets go away.

anecdotally, i went from 27ish to sub 20% in 16 weeks with SS cardio 2 days a week, coupled with running 2-3 days a week (plus lifting weights and a diet. duh.) i didn't do any HIIT or sprints. i'm a total pear and whilst i lost a lot of goo from hips, glutes, front of the thighs and sides (ie good ole fat loss), the pockets are truly stubborn.

i've since implemented lyle mcdonald's SFP (not traditional HIIT) and lowered carb intake. things seem to be shifting where they should . . . but sloowly. losing stubborn fat is about a lot more than just being in a dietary deficit. things like blood flow, mobilisation and transport are a big part of it and behoove their own bag of tricks.

[JeniM]

cellulite...Evil!

That was the last thing to go, well I still have a little bit, but no matter what I did
my cellulite was my nemesis until just a few weeks ago. Now I can live with what I have left,
for the most part LOL ;-)

And I agree, a tan helps hide it ;-)

[stephanielynn76]

I have it too... in the same places you do. I'm down to about 13% BF right now and STILL have it. My upper body is already as lean as I'd like it to be and yet the lower body is still not there yet. I did manage to get rid of it last summer though. I was even leaner than I am now and was doing lots of HITT. I was hoping to get rid of it without the HITT this time but I may have to resort to that if I keep cutting calories and don't see any progress. I'm 8 weeks out from a figure show and I know my thighs will be the last place to come in...

[stephanielynn76]

Btw, a girl I used to work with used to compete in figure and had the same issue. She resorted to liposuction!

[Miranda]

I have it too... in the same places you do. I'm down to about 13% BF right now and STILL have it. My upper body is already as lean as I'd like it to be and yet the lower body is still not there yet.

are you sure you're 13%? that's damn near essential bf levels - you'd be ultra ripped in the upper body and have visible ham/glute separation at that stage.

[stephanielynn76]

are you sure you're 13%? that's damn near essential bf levels - you'd have visible ham/glute separation at that stage.

No, I don't have visible ham/glute separation and I may not actually be 13%... that's just what I got last time I was tested by the trainer at the gym. I do, however, have visible bony structures jutting out all over my upper body and I look like a vascular freak right now with all these veins showing so prominently. I even have visible stomach veins. My upper body is nearing the point of too-leanness while my lower body is still holding on to the padding.

This was my back here recently if that helps...

[Miranda]

No, I don't have visible ham/glute separation and I may not actually be 13%... that's just what I got last time I was tested by the trainer at the gym.

ah okay if you're in high teens (not higher than that) yet hold onto lower body fat, you might find 'stubborn fat solution' a worthwhile read. old-school dieting and cardio/HIIT won't necessarily get you there anymore after a certain point.

[stephanielynn76]

ah okay if you're in high teens (not higher than that) yet hold onto lower body fat, you might find 'stubborn fat protocol' a worthwhile read. old-school dieting and cardio/HIIT won't necessarily get you there anymore after a certain point.

omgosh... there's a protocol for this!!!?!.... please tell where where!!! LOL. I'm kinda bummed that dieting and cardio won't get me there ....

[Miranda]

This was my back here recently if that helps...

upper back is nice, but you can clearly see lower back fat, so i don't think you're in the lower teens.

here's the link to the book:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the...n-fat-solution

[stephanielynn76]

upper back is nice, but you can clearly see lower back fat, so i don't think you're in the lower teens.

here's the link to the book:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the...n-fat-solution

Thank you SO much for the link!!!! Checking it out now. And I hope you are right and that I'm not in the lower teens because if I am that low and still have cellulite... well... that's just depressing... LOL

ETA: book has been ordered... can't wait to get it!

[freebirdmac]

Thank you SO much for the link!!!! Checking it out now. And I hope you are right and that I'm not in the lower teens because if I am that low and still have cellulite... well... that's just depressing... LOL

ETA: book has been ordered... can't wait to get it!

It's normal! BTW, contest prep is a completely different animal than trying to minimize cellulite at sustainable year around bf% For that, more muscle can make a huge difference when bf level are already reasonable.

[Miranda]

It's normal! BTW, contest prep is a completely different animal than trying to minimize cellulite at sustainable year around bf% For that, more muscle can make a huge difference when bf level are already reasonable.

depends on how you define your terms. you can be at a 'reasonable' bodyfat level - say 20-24% - and still have a lot of fat in the lower body.

since cellulite is fat, the only way to get rid of it is to drop bodyfat, not build muscle. this assumes the person actually has sufficient muscle underneath their fat layers, so their legs don't look like wobbly sticks in the end. but that's irrelevant to the fact that you need to lose fat to get rid of cellulite.

and, as i noted above, if you have saddlebags (ie bulging fat pockets) on the sides, no amount of muscle will straighten them out.

'sustainable' BF % varies per person and how bad they want it

[Pixietoes]

Wow, loved this thread. I too have a cellulite issue. Dieted quite successfully, got down to around 10-11 bf for my first Bikini show. Tan helped, some. Per my hubby he could still see a strip down the inside of my thigh! Yikes! I was looking great from the top up, but the down portion was sad. Thanks for the great information.

[Miranda]

Wow, loved this thread. I too have a cellulite issue. Dieted quite successfully, got down to around 10-11 bf for my first Bikini show.

i checked your pics on your bodyspace . . . no way are you anywhere near 10%. more like 20% or a bit under.

[Pixietoes]

i checked your pics on your bodyspace . . . no way are you anywhere near 10%. more like 20% or a bit under.

Hi Miranda, thanks for the opinion. I trained with a couple for my first show. When they kept telling me the numbers I was skeptical. Now I am more skeptical. I feel you are right on target. I had an electronic scan done when you stand on the scale. It said 17% I am taking that as more in line. Thank you for telling me like it is. I want to be a contender for my next show. I do feel very taken, like they blew smoke right up my posing suit. LOL!

[stephanielynn76]

Hi Miranda, thanks for the opinion. I trained with a couple for my first show. When they kept telling me the numbers I was skeptical. Now I am more skeptical. I feel you are right on target. I had an electronic scan done when you stand on the scale. It said 17% I am taking that as more in line. Thank you for telling me like it is. I want to be a contender for my next show. I do feel very taken, like they blew smoke right up my posing suit. LOL!

I had an electronic scan done a few weeks ago... which put me at 37%... uhm yeah... not so accurate. LOL

[Miranda]

I had an electronic scan done a few weeks ago... which put me at 37%... uhm yeah... not so accurate. LOL

if you mean those BIA scales they *can* be reasonably accurate. i've had a DEXA done and it put me at 17.9% when the scale said i was 16.9%-17.7% (varying with total BW).

...

but nevertheless, there are few overlapping things at play here that seem to confuse people:

1/ if you're bottom heavy, having a 'ripped', 'lean', 'depleted' upper body or 'abs' is pretty much meaningless in terms of gauging total bodyfat %. those terms mean different things to different people

2/ based on 1, a lot of women grossly, awfully, underestimate their bodyfat and falsely assume they're 'too lean' to diet down to a level where their legs start to show definition and basically stop halfway through.

(now, if you look like a stick in the upper body at this stage then it's conceivable you won't have enough muscle in the lower body either, in which case dieting down further is a bit pointless. but that's not what i'm trying to say here.)

being a pear means you hold ENORMOUS amounts of fat in hips/thighs/butt relative to upper body. if it *seems* not to come off at all when you're fat-ter it's not because it's 'stubborn' but because there's a LOT of it.

if you want leg definition and/or less/no cellulite, then you need to lose that fat. it's the way it is and it sucks.

[Kate111764]

I am pear-shaped. I recently started lifting weights and have noticed that my upper body is leaning out (alot) faster than my lower body. I would greatly appreciate some advice. My current stats are: I lift full body 3 times each week (60 minutes each) and do cardio 5 hours a week. I am 5'5 and weigh 122 pounds. My bodyfat is "probably" (not been tested in a couple of years) 20-21% and my goal is 16-17%. I track my food intake and eat between 1800-2100 calories each day. With food, my number one goal is to make sure I get enough protein and good fats then I fill in with carbs. In order to reach my goal,

1. Should I reduce the number of sets for my upper body and increase the number of sets for my lower body?
2. Should I increase the number of reps and decrease the weight for the lower body?
3. Should I increase my cardio?
4. Should I cut out the "bad" carbs (ie. chocolate, chips, bagels, etc).

I would REALLY appreciate some advice. Thanks!!

[freebirdmac]

I am pear-shaped. I recently started lifting weights and have noticed that my upper body is leaning out (alot) faster than my lower body. I would greatly appreciate some advice. My current stats are: I lift full body 3 times each week (60 minutes each) and do cardio 5 hours a week. I am 5'5 and weigh 122 pounds. My bodyfat is "probably" (not been tested in a couple of years) 20-21% and my goal is 16-17%. I track my food intake and eat between 1800-2100 calories each day. With food, my number one goal is to make sure I get enough protein and good fats then I fill in with carbs. In order to reach my goal,

1. Should I reduce the number of sets for my upper body and increase the number of sets for my lower body?
2. Should I increase the number of reps and decrease the weight for the lower body?
3. Should I increase my cardio?
4. Should I cut out the "bad" carbs (ie. chocolate, chips, bagels, etc).

I would REALLY appreciate some advice. Thanks!!

You don't need to change anything. Fat comes off from all over and you will see more of a difference in your leaner areas. When you get to the point where your upper body is depleted, it's time to bulk. It's through bulk/lean cycles that you can pare down that lower body fat without looking like a skeleton up top. With your stats this should happen soon. Maybe spend the summer at maintenance and do some slow recomping and then start a bulk come fall.

[stephanielynn76]

This was the only time I was ever without cellulite... last summer... I looked like a skeleton at 120lbs. I hope the 6-month bulk has added enough mass so that I don't look like this again at the same body fat. I tested at 11-12% BF here... and I have a ways to go to get there again so I'm guessing I'm actually a good bit higher than 13% right now. I should have looked back at these sooner!

[Miranda]

This was the only time I was ever without cellulite... last summer... I looked like a skeleton at 120lbs. I hope the 6-month bulk has added enough mass so that I don't look like this again at the same body fat. I tested at 11-12% BF here...

that's pretty thin but going by arms/delts not 11-12%. those are essential BF levels for women. you'd be sinewy with striations and veins everywhere, including inner thighs, hamstrings and butt.

hopefully the bulk treated you well

[BarbellBabyDoll]

Just on my own experience as well as working with many of my female clients who have been below 23% BF, there are a few factors here.. as mentioned the cellulite is fat, so you will see the biggest improvement by losing fat..doing a bulk/adding muscle to the area will not improve the appearance of cellulite and will most likely cause an increase in the cellulite as added muscle=added fat and this means you are creating more fat cells which will result in more cellulite. However, if you have little to no muscle in the area, jumping into fat loss at this point will most likely help diminish the appearance of the cellulite HOWEVER you may still not be happy with the appearance of your legs as they will appear very thin in order to drop to a low enough bF to reduce all cellulite in the area. It will take a long time of cycling cutting and bulking to achieve muscular, "fit" legs with some size that do not hold any cellulite. That being said, If you do have a good deal of muscle underneath the fat, you should be able to maintain most of this while losing fat in the saddlebag area, but again, every person has a different body composition.. The one thing I can attest to that I have seen make a huge difference in every female client in the abductor/ saddlebag area is adding sprints and running stairs to an already developed lifting routine and diet. When a client gets to sub 23% bf and still appears to hold fat in this area, I always add sprints and more importantly running stairs to the routine. I am normally not huge on cardio, but have found it to be SO HELPFUL in this situation both with myself and with many clients. Make sure youre diets in check, continue your normal lifting routine and add in some sprints followed by running bleachers, but if you don't have access to bleachers, a stepmill works well also..also, try alternating normal steps with doing two steps at a time, this really activates the glutes and aductor muscles! Hope this helps! Good Luck!

[Kate111764]

Thank you, Freebirdmac, for your reply! I will do as you say and keep doing my program. Your advice makes sense.

You don't need to change anything. Fat comes off from all over and you will see more of a difference in your leaner areas. When you get to the point where your upper body is depleted, it's time to bulk. It's through bulk/lean cycles that you can pare down that lower body fat without looking like a skeleton up top. With your stats this should happen soon. Maybe spend the summer at maintenance and do some slow recomping and then start a bulk come fall.

[freebirdmac]

Just on my own experience as well as working with many of my female clients who have been below 23% BF, there are a few factors here.. as mentioned the cellulite is fat, so you will see the biggest improvement by losing fat..doing a bulk/adding muscle to the area will not improve the appearance of cellulite and will most likely cause an increase in the cellulite as added muscle=added fat and this means you are creating more fat cells which will result in more cellulite. However, if you have little to no muscle in the area, jumping into fat loss at this point will most likely help diminish the appearance of the cellulite HOWEVER you may still not be happy with the appearance of your legs as they will appear very thin in order to drop to a low enough bF to reduce all cellulite in the area. It will take a long time of cycling cutting and bulking to achieve muscular, "fit" legs with some size that do not hold any cellulite. That being said, If you do have a good deal of muscle underneath the fat, you should be able to maintain most of this while losing fat in the saddlebag area, but again, every person has a different body composition.. The one thing I can attest to that I have seen make a huge difference in every female client in the abductor/ saddlebag area is adding sprints and running stairs to an already developed lifting routine and diet. When a client gets to sub 23% bf and still appears to hold fat in this area, I always add sprints and more importantly running stairs to the routine. I am normally not huge on cardio, but have found it to be SO HELPFUL in this situation both with myself and with many clients. Make sure youre diets in check, continue your normal lifting routine and add in some sprints followed by running bleachers, but if you don't have access to bleachers, a stepmill works well also..also, try alternating normal steps with doing two steps at a time, this really activates the glutes and aductor muscles! Hope this helps! Good Luck!

You know why sprints and stairs work? Not because it's cardio, or due to spot reduction, but because those exercises are helping to create growth! Sprinters legs are awesome and it's not all coming from the weight room.

Also, yes you gain some fat when bulking. Duh. It's when you gain muscle and lean out that you can see a difference. You're also not creating new fat cells, you're filling current fat cells and those that are created all the time. Fat cells die off and new ones are created no matter what you do.

Everyone has a built in genetic predisposition for cellulite. It'll be huge for some, nonexistent for others. You can have a good amount of lean mass, 16%bf, and still have cellulite. There is no guarantee of ever getting rid of all of it. Losing body fat and gaining lean mass are the only two things you can do. Lean mass does help to change the appearance. Underlying muscle lifts and shapes. There's nothing magical here. One can only be so lean.

[Miranda]

You know why sprints and stairs work? Not because it's cardio, or due to spot reduction, but because those exercises are helping to create growth!

. . . and the increased muscle burns the fat off your thighs?



sprinting does not build muscle. progressive tension overload builds muscle.

sprints (in the least if you do them in correctly + add in other stuff) work by increasing adrenaline and noradrenaline release, which stimulates both blood flow and breakdown of fat in stubborn fat areas.