Pro-lifers get in here.

[Birdy69]

This why abortion does not = murder.

Without the mother, that fetus isn't turning into anything.

Saying a fetus is a person is like saying that a piece of metal is a car because it'll be a car if someone builds it into a car.

[32lax]

so when do you believe a fetus becomes a person?

[StarFox]

Never, as long as you abort your car.


Wut

[VanKid]

i heard its 4 weeks

[US_Ranger]

This why abortion does not = murder.

Without the mother, that fetus isn't turning into anything.

Saying a fetus is a person is like saying that a piece of metal is a car because it'll be a car if someone builds it into a car.

A 2 year old will die without the mother or some other entity caring/nurturing it.

[BEATINGU]

Yeah let's compare a fetus and a baby to inanimate objects like metal and cars.

[Birdy69]

A 2 year old will die without the mother or some other entity caring/nurturing it.

A car will fall into disrepair if it isn't prepared for what it will endure.

so when do you believe a fetus becomes a person?

When it can survive on its own given food and water but nothing else.

Yeah let's compare a fetus and a baby to inanimate objects like metal and cars.

Magnets, how do they work?

[32lax]

When it can survive on its own given food and water but nothing else.

so you're down with infanticide then too? cool.

and premature babies that need intensive care don't count either? fu(k it, let's just throw 'em away like in 300.

[Birdy69]

so you're down with infanticide then too? cool.

and premature babies that need intensive care don't count either? fu(k it, let's just throw 'em away like in 300.

You don't actually test it out on the fetus.

That's just an arbitrary time. Any OBGYN can tell you when a fetus would be able to survive that and a law would be made banning abortions after that point.

[US_Ranger]

When it can survive on its own given food and water but nothing else.

Is this real life?

So you're for "abortion" of kids up to age 4 or 5? You're also for "abortion" of special ed kids if no one wants them?

What in the fck......

[Birdy69]

Is this real life?

So you're for "abortion" of kids up to age 4 or 5? You're also for "abortion" of special ed kids if no one wants them?

What in the fck......

You really underestimate humans.

All the food and water you can dream in a room at room temperature.

It's not put into practice either, see post #9.

[PaulG]

brb claiming as a dependent is indicative of abortion. brb your grandmother is aborted because shes old.

[Weightaholic]

I'm enjoying all the strawmen in this topic. If, as someone else said, would special needs kids be aborted, well if they were, I think some of you would be in a spot of bother....

How about not before the basic nervous system develops enough to feel pain as a starting baseline. What's that, about 12 weeks in?

[LiftTheIron]

When it can survive on its own given food and water but nothing else.

Someone has to give the baby food? Doesn't seem like a person to me. lol at all the different criteria everyone has for what is a person.

[cavymeister]

You really underestimate humans.

All the food and water you can dream in a room at room temperature.

It's not put into practice either, see post #9.

24 weeks is, generally, the survivability point of a fetus. Most hospitals won't do much to intervene before that.

[ImproperOne]

so when do you believe a fetus becomes a person?

Your question is wrong, it should be "when does a fetus become a living person" and that question is easily answered by answereing how we determine who's alive amongst those who are born. Electrical activity beyond random impulse in the brain's cerebral cortex.

Human personhood, would then start when consciousness begins and ends when consciousness irrevocably ends.

[ImproperOne]

A 2 year old will die without the mother or some other entity caring/nurturing it.

So every single 2 year old in the entire world that has lost it's mother is doomed?

Do you even think before you post?

[coffey06]

ITT OP gives his arbitrary opinion on when it's murder to kill a genetically-complete human.

"It's not murder until he/she can survive with only food and water" - lol at that arbitrariness.

[lasher]

This why abortion does not = murder.

Without the mother, that fetus isn't turning into anything.

Saying a fetus is a person is like saying that a piece of metal is a car because it'll be a car if someone builds it into a car.

What does that fact that it is dependent on the mother have to do with anything?

[DocHol1day]

What does that fact that it is dependent on the mother have to do with anything?

You dont have a right to anything another person has to give you.

[coffey06]

I am the truth.

And the truth is, a fetus is not a baby, a non functioning retard is not a person, if it doesn't have higher cognitive abilities it is not a person, it might as well be dead. With that in mind, I'm all for putting strong retards down, and I'm for abortion, in fact, I love euthanasia, the way it rolls off the tongue makes me tingle.

At least you're consistent. I respect that.

[DocHol1day]

I am the truth.

And the truth is, a fetus is not a baby, a non functioning retard is not a person, if it doesn't have higher cognitive abilities it is not a person, it might as well be dead. With that in mind, I'm all for putting strong retards down, and I'm for abortion, in fact, I love euthanasia, the way it rolls off the tongue makes me tingle.

The truth is none of that even matters. Name ONE society that requires YOU to care for your children or your non functioning retards if you don't want to. Some societies have decided to provide public care for individuals who don't want to care for their own, but in societies that don't you aren't required to care for them.

[mistercollie]

Saying a fetus is a person is like saying that a piece of metal is a car because it'll be a car if someone builds it into a car.

I sometimes get confused on where to draw the line between human beings and cars too, OP. I mean seriously, who hasn't met a car that didn't tuck you into bed at night, make you breakfast every morning, or offered advice on how to get through a hard time?

Is it just a coincide that cars and humans are almost identical? I think it's time we established equal civil rights for cars. In all fairness, they are pretty much synonymous with a human being.

[ImproperOne]

I sometimes get confused on where to draw the line between human beings and cars too, OP. I mean seriously, who hasn't met a car that didn't tuck you into bed at night, make you breakfast every morning, or offered advice on how to get through a hard time?

Is it just a coincide that cars and humans are almost identical? I think it's time we established equal civil rights for cars. In all fairness, they are pretty much synonymous with a human being.

You do understand what an analogy is?

The mother builds the fetus as everyone involved in building cars builds a car, that is the analogy he's going for and nowhere and in no way did he ever argue that a car and a human being is the same thing.

You're commiting a logical fallacy here by arguing against a point he never made, that is known as the strawman fallacy.

[DocHol1day]

Let's see, as a future doctor, I'm sure I'll have to care for a few brain dead vegetables, it's a waste of resources. All because apparently people are born with an intrinsic value to them, which is BS. If I had it my way, all of those super obese people who can't take care of themselves would be put down as well.

I mostly agree. I wouldn't kill anyone, but I would pull government resources and, oh what's the phrase I'm looking for, let the free market take care of it


If some retards mom wants to. Wipe his ass for the rest of her miserable life and pay someone like you top dollar for care that's her business. I only object to my money funding it.

[amtharin]

More deep thought brought to you by Birdy69.

[amtharin]

I mostly agree. I wouldn't kill anyone, but I would pull government resources and, oh what's the phrase I'm looking for, let the free market take care of it


If some retards mom wants to. Wipe his ass for the rest of her miserable life and pay someone like you top dollar for care that's her business. I only object to my money funding it.

WTF man??? He's talking about killing people he deems unworthy, and you're talking about letting people take care of their own, and you start your post off with "I mostly agree"???

[ImproperOne]

Let's see, as a future doctor, I'm sure I'll have to care for a few brain dead vegetables, it's a waste of resources. All because apparently people are born with an intrinsic value to them, which is BS. If I had it my way, all of those super obese people who can't take care of themselves would be put down as well.

If people like you got to decide anything then we'd all suffer, especially scientists since Hawkins would be one of those who would go first in your utopia.

I really hope you are not being serious but it's hard to tell.

BTW, you won't have to care for any brain dead vegetables, they are dead. You would have to care for patients in a permanent vegetative state though and i agree that that is a waste of resources.

[DocHol1day]

Let's see, as a future doctor, I'm sure I'll have to care for a few brain dead vegetables, it's a waste of resources. All because apparently people are born with an intrinsic value to them, which is BS. If I had it my way, all of those super obese people who can't take care of themselves would be put down as well.

We can take this thought process a long way though. Wanna see who blinks first? I really believe this. The last time we talked about this you called me whiny. Funny you make the same argument now....

[lasher]

If I had it my way, all of those super obese people who can't take care of themselves would be put down as well.

So you'd harikari yourself then?