Layne Norton PHAT workout

[pcooper22]

Many people tried this? If so is it for intermediate or advanced trainers or both?

What kind of result have people had?

Cheers

[ShaneSwan]

There are 2 things I think people should realise with PHAT, specifically regarding the template workout at simplyshredded.

Firstly, the volume is one variable which can be modified without losing the 'essence' of the program. If a novice was determined to run the program, the volume would be one of the things Id recommend modifying (as in decreasing it), especially on the hyper days. Further to this, Layne's template involves a very wide range of different excercises, many of which I dont think are necessary for a novice to be concerned with. It might be better to decrease the number of excercises, but increase working sets on the kept excercises to compensate; ie instead of doing 10 excercises at 2 sets each, one could drop to (say) 5 excercises at 4 sets each.

Secondly, the frequency/split of PHAT might not offer optimal progression for novices, many of whom would experience a greater rate of progression on a 3day fullbody program. In addition to this, PHAT is based on an undulating nonlinear periodisation protocol, which is more what an intermediate-advanced trainee would require. Again, novices tend to progress more efficiently on linear nonperiodised protocols.

So none of this means PHAT is 'not' for novices, or that a novice will not experience any gains with it. The take home message is, typically, a novice will experience more efficient gains/progression on a linear 3day program. However, if PHAT is to be run by a novice, they should probably consider modifying volume and reduce total number of excercises.

[osgangstarrr]

Many people tried this? If so is it for intermediate or advanced trainers or both?

What kind of result have people had?

Cheers

Great results, I modified it a little to suit my needs. I've gained 12 pounds of muscle in a month of doing this.

I suggest you do PHAT for 4 weeks, then on week 5 deload by doing a basic hypertrophy 5 day split with 65-75% of the weight lifting during your 4 week PHAT phase.

Check out my bodyspace to see my improvements due to PHAT.

I believe its the best routine for natural BBer's.

[ShaneSwan]

I suggest you do PHAT for 4 weeks, then on week 5 deload by doing a basic hypertrophy 5 day split with 65-75% of the weight lifting during your 4 week PHAT phase.

Really? For most guys they will require longer than 4 weeks to achieve an adaptive response to the program.

[CanadianEric]

I've never done it but I've researched it extensively and plan to use it after 5/3/1 has run its course and I'm happy with my strength levels. It seems like a fantastic program for people like me who like the strength gains achieved through a powerlifting approach, but ultimately lean more towards the bodybuilding approach. Its a great program which synthesizes the best of both worlds (from what I gather.)

[osgangstarrr]

Really? For most guys they will require longer than 4 weeks to achieve an adaptive response to the program.

Of course that variable varies but I think 4 weeks is a good duration for those starting out the program; it's a lot of volume.

[ShaneSwan]

Its a great program which synthesizes the best of both worlds (from what I gather.)

Indeed, part of its strength is its non-linear nature. With many other linear periodisation programs the trainee ends up losing some of the gains/progression made with an earlier phase.

[ShaneSwan]

Of course that variable varies but I think 4 weeks is a good duration for those starting out the program; it's a lot of volume.

Sure, I agree that it can involve alot of volume if one adheres strictly to the simplyshredded template (have you read it?) However, and Im sure Layne has talked of this somewhere, deloading after 4 weeks as you are proposing seems far too soon; you are deloading right around the time the body will be initiating an adaptive response (and so you will be cutting short/undermining any hypertrophic gains).

I should prolly try and find the article/post as it goes into specifics such as supercompensation and such.

[osgangstarrr]

Sure, I agree that it can involve alot of volume if one adheres strictly to the simplyshredded template (have you read it?) However, and Im sure Layne has talked of this somewhere, deloading after 4 weeks as you are proposing seems far too soon; you are deloading right around the time the body will be initiating an adaptive response (and so you will be cutting short/undermining any hypertrophic gains).

I should prolly try and find the article/post as it goes into specifics such as supercompensation and such.

Everyone's body adapts to any form of training differently. I've personally administered this PHAT program to my clients (With various modifications) and there has been a significant increase in muscle size and density, not to mention strength gains.

My body adapts to any training program quickly, and desires something new (Damn genetics).
I've read the article a few times in its entirety but it still remains fact that everyone's CNS and fibers will adapt to the program at varying time spans.

[ShaneSwan]

Everyone's body adapts to any form of training differently.

Of course, which is why Im confused you are advocating a particular timeframe (4 weeks) before deloading. Deloads, as far as I understand them, are generally based on symptoms; putting a figure on them seems in this case a little arbitrary, especially considered in this light:

it still remains fact that everyone's CNS and fibers will adapt to the program at varying time spans.

If 'time' is not a constant across a range of trainees as to when they require a deload, what is? I would say symptoms. That is, all trainees who probably require a deload may have been running PHAT for differing time periods, but what they all share are certain symptoms.

Look, Im not trying to bust your balls here, nor am I saying that one will not experience any hypertrophic gains by running PHAT in 4 week stints. Im only calling into question this:

I suggest you do PHAT for 4 weeks, then on week 5 deload by doing a basic hypertrophy 5 day split with 65-75% of the weight lifting during your 4 week PHAT phase.

[pcooper22]

I was planning on doing it for 8 weeks or so then deload for a week. I've being doing a pretty standard 5 day split for about 6 months of legs,back,chest, shoulders, arms. So hoping to see some good results from this new programme.

I plan on doing between 20-30mins cardio post workout and adding abs to the routine twice a week. Any one see any problems with it?

[osgangstarrr]

Of course, which is why Im confused you are advocating a particular timeframe (4 weeks) before deloading. Deloads, as far as I understand them, are generally based on symptoms; putting a figure on them seems in this case a little arbitrary, especially considered in this light:



If 'time' is not a constant across a range of trainees as to when they require a deload, what is? I would say symptoms. That is, all trainees who probably require a deload may have been running PHAT for differing time periods, but what they all share are certain symptoms.

Look, Im not trying to bust your balls here, nor am I saying that one will not experience any hypertrophic gains by running PHAT in 4 week stints. Im only calling into question this:

No worries man, it's simply a suggestion that I give to anyone starting PHAT because not many people who ask for workout advice are advanced trainees so I rather not recommend them proceed with a advanced routine such as PHAT for more than 4 weeks to start (many beginners over do it).

Some are not aware of the signs of overtraining and they tend to believe that the more DOMS the better the routine is working for them.

[ShaneSwan]

I was planning on doing it for 8 weeks or so then deload for a week. I've being doing a pretty standard 5 day split for about 6 months of legs,back,chest, shoulders, arms. So hoping to see some good results from this new programme.

I plan on doing between 20-30mins cardio post workout and adding abs to the routine twice a week. Any one see any problems with it?

Just be sure to have your calorie/macro numbers sorted appropriate to your goals.

[osgangstarrr]

I was planning on doing it for 8 weeks or so then deload for a week. I've being doing a pretty standard 5 day split for about 6 months of legs,back,chest, shoulders, arms. So hoping to see some good results from this new programme.

I plan on doing between 20-30mins cardio post workout and adding abs to the routine twice a week. Any one see any problems with it?

Don't perform cardio post-workout, you may overtrain. Do cardio on the designated rest day; with the proper marcro allocation and calorie consumption you will lean out while gaining size on this program.

[AmbiAmbitious]

I copied and pasted this from the Layne Norton article.
vvvvvv

Squats:
Typically people are weak in the hole and I would recommend doing below parallel box squats to help fix this. Make sure you sit down to the box and pause on it. Also good mornings may help back strength to maintain your arch in the hole and deep hack squats may help increase quad strength for deep reps.
Deadlifts:
If you are weak off the floor, then focus on deficit deadlifts from a 2-4″ box. If you are weak at the lockout then do rack pulls from just below the knee. If you have access to bands or chains I would also recommend adding those in as they will make the lockout more difficult.
Presses:
If you are weak midway through the movement or at the lockout, really focus on triceps strength using close grip presses, dips, or skull crushers. Adding bands or chains will also help with lockout of a press. If you are weak at the bottom, try doing presses where you pause for a 3 count at the bottom before pressing.

I'm trying to figure out which one is Auxilliry, Assistance is what not?
I'm guessing Deep hack squat is Assistance to the main: Squat.
But what exactly is an Auxilliry?

[martial-man420]

Secondly, the frequency/split of PHAT might not offer optimal progression for novices, many of whom would experience a greater rate of progression on a 3day fullbody program. In addition to this, PHAT is based on an undulating nonlinear periodisation protocol, which is more what an intermediate-advanced trainee would require. Again, novices tend to progress more efficiently on linear nonperiodised protocols.

So none of this means PHAT is 'not' for novices, or that a novice will not experience any gains with it. The take home message is, typically, a novice will experience more efficient gains/progression on a linear 3day program. However, if PHAT is to be run by a novice, they should probably consider modifying volume and reduce total number of excercises.

I' be really grateful if someone could please aware me / supply a link to simple information regarding what undulating nonlinear periodisation protocol etc...are. I've googled it and can't really find any simple explanations.

I'm considering doing PHAT because it looks like a very entertaining, hard working enjoyable program to run. Since I'm only just at the intermediate stage with most of my lifts I'm aware I'm probably too untrained to gain optimal efficiency from the program but am considering doing it anyway at it just looks very enjoyable. Anyone got any good advice with regards to someone with lifts around the Bench 85KG (3x5), squat 90KG(3x5) Deadlift 130KG(3x5) mark running the program?

[gingersgym]

I am also in a similar situation, have been training around 2 years ( most of it with poor diet)

lifts
dead 165kg
bench 95kg
oh press 60kg
squat 125kg

My current weight 65kg, finally got diet sorted and im bulking.

I have run many programs, HST, GVT, 3 Day full body etc and now 5/3/1.

I am looking to do PHAT, however Martyn over on the teen forum suggested I am still not strong enough for PHAT and should do madcows 5x5 for better gains...

Would this hold true? or as long as i progress on PHAT it shouldnt make any odds?

My main goal is hypertrophy.

[s0j]

Golden for more experienced people, okay for beginners I would say..
The routine itself is just an edited 5x5 with more max/hypertrohpy implented to it. You always need to take everything with a bit of salt from what you hear from bodybuilders, but I would be damned if not everyone would see results with this. Im currently on the routine myself and im 1 week in it, feeling tired as **** like never before. Not going to talk all golden about this though, everyones progress with it is ofcourse individual but you should try it out if you feel like it, defenatly.

I am also in a similar situation, have been training around 2 years ( most of it with poor diet)

lifts
dead 165kg
bench 95kg
oh press 60kg
squat 125kg

My current weight 65kg, finally got diet sorted and im bulking.

I have run many programs, HST, GVT, 3 Day full body etc and now 5/3/1.

I am looking to do PHAT, however Martyn over on the teen forum suggested I am still not strong enough for PHAT and should do madcows 5x5 for better gains...

Would this hold true? or as long as i progress on PHAT it shouldnt make any odds?

My main goal is hypertrophy.

Not strong enough for PHAT? Thats a load of bull****, your maxes are your maxes, Layne doesnt specifically say DO 400 squats or youre too weak. unless you are not strong enough as having some kind of bone muscle desease or whatever. I have been lifting seriosly for about 6 months and I make all kinds of gains and I have had the luck not to get injured, if its luck based lol

Now I dont know this martyn or what he based this statement of, but if you really want black/white proof you should test out madcow now, then wait a bit, then do PHAT and then madcow again to see your results.

These are my stats with the 3bigs

Deads 120kg
Squats 90-100kg
Bench: 70kg - (even though its not even in the routine!)
youre even stronger then me, but then again I have always had a resistant body that can take alot of stress without injuries. Think about it bro

[AntonisD]

I' be really grateful if someone could please aware me / supply a link to simple information regarding what undulating nonlinear periodisation protocol etc...are. I've googled it and can't really find any simple explanations.

I'm considering doing PHAT because it looks like a very entertaining, hard working enjoyable program to run. Since I'm only just at the intermediate stage with most of my lifts I'm aware I'm probably too untrained to gain optimal efficiency from the program but am considering doing it anyway at it just looks very enjoyable. Anyone got any good advice with regards to someone with lifts around the Bench 85KG (3x5), squat 90KG(3x5) Deadlift 130KG(3x5) mark running the program?

Undulating (or non-linear periodization) basically means varying the level of intensity in the short term. So where linear periodization would look like this:
Week 1-3: Light (12-15 reps)
Week 4-6: Moderate (8-11 reps)
Week 7-9: Heavy (4-7 reps)

non linear periodization would look like this:
Day 1 (ie Monday): Light (12-15 reps)
Day 2 (ie Wednesday): Moderate (8-11 reps)
Day 3 (ie Friday): Heavy (4-7 reps)

Note that non linear periodization is not a routine, but a concept. So you can do a three day full body split, a four day (upper-lower) split, Laynes PHAT, or even a six day push-pull-legs split (if you can recover from that!)

Try googling non linear periodization rather than undulating periodization for more info.

[MartyrMoose]

Just bumping this thread with another question -

I've been doing the PHAT program for a week and I haven't been getting DOMS which is a disappointment since in Layne Norton's article, he's been emphasizing the intensity of this workout. Should I lower my rep ranges with a heavier load for my hypertrophy days?

[musikguy72]

Just bumping this thread with another question -

I've been doing the PHAT program for a week and I haven't been getting DOMS which is a disappointment since in Layne Norton's article, he's been emphasizing the intensity of this workout. Should I lower my rep ranges with a heavier load for my hypertrophy days?

DOMS isn't an indication of progress or a good workout. No need to chase DOMS at the expense of the program. Just follow as written and log your results.