Cutting water on Friday [poll]

[JoeBro]

ok we need a final answer here. for a natural bodybuilder do you cut water out on friday, or do you drink water all the way through the show? there are so many points for both cases, so lets hear em and end the debate here!

P.S>Make sure you post your answer on the poll...

[Cumulonimbus]

Don't cut water.

[Withoutreason]

personally I cut water completely 4.5 days out, that dry taste in my mouth lets me know I'm ready

[JoeBro]

personally I cut water completely 4.5 days out, that dry taste in my mouth lets me know I'm ready

kidding...? i hope?

[mikespe]

I have a show in 4 weeks & I will be at least partially cutting water that Wed at 4pm...I'll also be taking Xpell the natural diuretic. I'll still be eating some green veggies so I will get my water from there. PLUS any water I do take in will be distilled to eliminate trace sodium....

[bwelch1985]

I have a show in 4 weeks & I will be at least partially cutting water that Wed at 4pm...I'll also be taking Xpell the natural diuretic. I'll still be eating some green veggies so I will get my water from there. PLUS any water I do take in will be distilled to eliminate trace sodium....

why?

[Withoutreason]

kidding...? i hope?

lol aye man

dont cut water at all, drink loads , and take a big piss before you hit the stage

[Cumulonimbus]

I have a show in 4 weeks & I will be at least partially cutting water that Wed at 4pm...I'll also be taking Xpell the natural diuretic. I'll still be eating some green veggies so I will get my water from there. PLUS any water I do take in will be distilled to eliminate trace sodium....

Prepare to look like....












crap

[Sporto1633]

Well, the whole reason that there even is a debate in the first place is because there really isn't a simple cut and dry answer. That, and it also depends on what you mean by "cutting" water. For instance, do you mean taper? Or cutting it out completely? For most natural bodybuilders, not cutting (or even tapering) water is probably the best option for many reasons. Most bodybuilders are not on a level that really warrants messing with that particular variable - and that is not an insult to anyone reading this, I'm just being honest. You have a lot to lose and very little to gain if you dont do it properly or understand all the other variables going on when trying to manipulate fluid balance. It's a safe play, and you can still look fantastic by not doing anything with water, even up to the day of the show.

If someone were to choose on manipulating water, then they would need to take into account several other things like their carb load (amount, timing, etc.), their sodium intake/manipulation, etc. There's a lot to factor into it, which is why the safe play, and usually best option, is to not mess with it at all.

Sporto

[Sporto1633]

Prepare to look like....












crap

Depends on exactly what he does...the natural diuretics can work if taken properly, as can tapering water, etc. It is not a clear cut answer if "don't cut water" like most people in this forum seem to think.

And I'm not saying do it or don't do it, I'm just saying that it's not a simple answer...which for most people does inherently mean "don't cut water"

Sporto

[mikespe]

Prepare to look like....










crap

So I guess I'll look like your avatar then! I've competed several years & have done one variation or another of this and have always placed in the top 3...how about you?

[Barn01]

Well, the whole reason that there even is a debate in the first place is because there really isn't a simple cut and dry answer. That, and it also depends on what you mean by "cutting" water. For instance, do you mean taper? Or cutting it out completely? For most natural bodybuilders, not cutting (or even tapering) water is probably the best option for many reasons. Most bodybuilders are not on a level that really warrants messing with that particular variable - and that is not an insult to anyone reading this, I'm just being honest. You have a lot to lose and very little to gain if you dont do it properly or understand all the other variables going on when trying to manipulate fluid balance. It's a safe play, and you can still look fantastic by not doing anything with water, even up to the day of the show.

If someone were to choose on manipulating water, then they would need to take into account several other things like their carb load (amount, timing, etc.), their sodium intake/manipulation, etc. There's a lot to factor into it, which is why the safe play, and usually best option, is to not mess with it at all.

Sporto

+1 ^^^^
I have to agree here. It's not as simple as "to drink or not to drink".

My suggestion is get lean early and take a few weeks to experiment with peaking. Then if you find the best solution, go with it and hope and pray you can reproduce the effect you had before or better it. Even doing the exact same thing that worked once may not yield the same effect the second time around.

OP and others .... don't put absolutes on variable situations, IMHO that's a recipe for possible failure.

[AustrianOakJr]

Well, the whole reason that there even is a debate in the first place is because there really isn't a simple cut and dry answer. That, and it also depends on what you mean by "cutting" water. For instance, do you mean taper? Or cutting it out completely? For most natural bodybuilders, not cutting (or even tapering) water is probably the best option for many reasons. Most bodybuilders are not on a level that really warrants messing with that particular variable - and that is not an insult to anyone reading this, I'm just being honest. You have a lot to lose and very little to gain if you dont do it properly or understand all the other variables going on when trying to manipulate fluid balance. It's a safe play, and you can still look fantastic by not doing anything with water, even up to the day of the show.

If someone were to choose on manipulating water, then they would need to take into account several other things like their carb load (amount, timing, etc.), their sodium intake/manipulation, etc. There's a lot to factor into it, which is why the safe play, and usually best option, is to not mess with it at all.

Sporto

Tommy - I am taking it from this post that you do not agree with the stand point that there is nothing you can do to substantially change the balance of water between the inter-cellular and extra-cellular space?

I have never understood how people try to calculate the amount of water taken in with the amount of carbohyrate consumed. The 2.7g of water per gram of carb is only one variable to consider.....this still only accounts for a small percentage of the total amount of water in your body. Trying to match water intake with carb and sodium intake seems like an exercise in futility. Do you have any specifics that you have learned with regard to ratios or has it been all trial and error for you?

[AustrianOakJr]

I have a show in 4 weeks & I will be at least partially cutting water that Wed at 4pm...I'll also be taking Xpell the natural diuretic. I'll still be eating some green veggies so I will get my water from there. PLUS any water I do take in will be distilled to eliminate trace sodium....

Eliminating sodium AND water? How is it that you manage to keep the water inside of the muscle cell as you dehydrate?

So I guess I'll look like your avatar then! I've competed several years & have done one variation or another of this and have always placed in the top 3...how about you?

Just because you place at a show does not mean that your peaking methods are optimal. Some people manage to do well in spite of what they do.

[mikespe]

Eliminating sodium AND water? How is it that you manage to keep the water inside of the muscle cell as you dehydrate?

Not completely eliminating sodium...still getting trace sodium from veggies & talapia...and this is only from Wed evening to Saturday...and I will be sipping water throughout...but not the 2 gallons I am taking in now.

Just because you place at a show does not mean that your peaking methods are optimal. Some people manage to do well in spite of what they do.

That wasn't my point...the troll posted a useless post that was of no help to anyone....if he knew anything he would post something of value and not criticize someone else...

[wrkoutfrq]

i say no based on what tommy said... it's gonna be very individualistic, and if you haven't experimeted and tested what you are gonna try as far as cutting water/sodium, etc. then you run the great risk of coming in off... so i say no for those who haven't got a tried and true method FOR THEIR OWN BODY...

[Cumulonimbus]

Not completely eliminating sodium...still getting trace sodium from veggies & talapia...and this is only from Wed evening to Saturday...and I will be sipping water throughout...but not the 2 gallons I am taking in now.




That wasn't my point...the troll posted a useless post that was of no help to anyone....if he knew anything he would post something of value and not criticize someone else...

I am a troll how? And to answer your question I placed 1st.

[Sporto1633]

OP and others .... don't put absolutes on variable situations, IMHO that's a recipe for possible failure.

Agreed 100%!

Tommy - I am taking it from this post that you do not agree with the stand point that there is nothing you can do to substantially change the balance of water between the inter-cellular and extra-cellular space?

It depends on what you mean by the word "substantially" - so I take it from your post that substantially means "a lot" by which my answer is NO...otherwise I would have advised everyone do it rather than advising that most bodybuilders shouldn't. That's why I said "you have a lot to lose and very little to gain"

I have never understood how people try to calculate the amount of water taken in with the amount of carbohyrate consumed. The 2.7g of water per gram of carb is only one variable to consider.....this still only accounts for a small percentage of the total amount of water in your body. Trying to match water intake with carb and sodium intake seems like an exercise in futility. Do you have any specifics that you have learned with regard to ratios or has it been all trial and error for you?

I don't calculate precise water intake based on carb numbers...it's hard to tell from your post if you are incinuating that I do or not, but either way, that's not what I do when I am advising clients on how to approach the final 2 weeks leading up to a show.

Sporto

[AustrianOakJr]

Agreed 100%!



It depends on what you mean by the word "substantially" - so I take it from your post that substantially means "a lot" by which my answer is NO...otherwise I would have advised everyone do it rather than advising that most bodybuilders shouldn't. That's why I said "you have a lot to lose and very little to gain"

So there is an acceptable tolerance that the body will allow for balance between inter and extra water? You think its possible to swing to the most favorable side of that tolerance and time that swing correctly? How long can you hold water to that favorable side of tolerance?

[JohnBrowne]

Tommy's techniques always confuse the hell out of me because from a theoretical perspective they shouldn't work, but his conditioning on stage is the best of the best.

[AustrianOakJr]

With all due respect to Tommy - he is a phenomenal athlete- if u get shredded to the bone by being insanely disciplined and working very hard for long enough......you are going to look dry on stage unless you do something really wacky like swing your sodium way out of range or eat carbs until u spill. This is by no means a dig- its really a compliment- but the last week peak tricks (with the exception of obviously carb loading) probably did not change his appearance very significantly at all.

[Cumulonimbus]

With all due respect to Tommy - he is a phenomenal athlete- if u get shredded to the bone by being insanely disciplined and working very hard for long enough......you are going to look dry on stage unless you do something really wacky like swing your sodium way out of range or eat carbs until u spill. This is by no means a dig- its really a compliment- but the last week peak tricks (with the exception of obviously carb loading) probably did not change his appearance very significantly at all.

Exactly, all the work was done in the hard work was done in the previous weeks. Either you're super shredded of you're not.

[mikespe]

Everyone's body is different and will respond to the fine week "tricks" differently. To say you HAVE to do contest prep a certain way is poor judgement. The final presentation is all that matters & if cutting water, carb load/deplete, sodium/potassium load/deplete etc work for YOU then it IS the right thing for YOUR body at THAT TIME. As we get older our bodies respond differently to various conditions. I'm 44 & am getting back into competition after a 19 year layoff. I've noticed my body is responding much more to the diet this time around. I won't need to do much the final week with the exception of cut some water to dry out just a hair more. When I was younger I did the sodium/potassium load/deplete...which I wouldn't DARE do no considering my age and what I've learned in regards to new research. But it worked back then...point being is that NO ONE in this thread giving advice is WRONG....they are RIGHT for their bodies. If you are new to the sport then there is only one way to find out what works & what don't...

[AustrianOakJr]

Everyone's body is different and will respond to the fine week "tricks" differently. To say you HAVE to do contest prep a certain way is poor judgement. The final presentation is all that matters & if cutting water, carb load/deplete, sodium/potassium load/deplete etc work for YOU then it IS the right thing for YOUR body at THAT TIME. As we get older our bodies respond differently to various conditions. I'm 44 & am getting back into competition after a 19 year layoff. I've noticed my body is responding much more to the diet this time around. I won't need to do much the final week with the exception of cut some water to dry out just a hair more. When I was younger I did the sodium/potassium load/deplete...which I wouldn't DARE do no considering my age and what I've learned in regards to new research. But it worked back then...point being is that NO ONE in this thread giving advice is WRONG....they are RIGHT for their bodies. If you are new to the sport then there is only one way to find out what works & what don't...

You have to be careful with the "everyone is right" philosophy. While it is true that there are different body types and we might respond to dietary changes slighly differently, everyone's body functions under the same set of basic rules. Human physiology is human physiology. To say that cutting water out completely might work for someone and cranking water through the roof might work for someone else........I dont see how that could be. Perhaps the hormonal response to dehydration might occur at slightly different rates between two people, but the fact is that if you cut water, aldosterone will increase and you will begin to hold water. Again, "when" that occurs might vary slightly from person to person, but we all have the same physiological response to cutting out water intake.

I would be inclined to agree with Tommy in that slight shifts might be able to take place from slightly manipulating water intake, but the visual result from that slight shift is rather insignificant. Drastic swings in water intake will not result in the dry look a natural bodybuilder is looking to achieve.

[Slovation]

I think maybe the poll should have the options for....

keep water consistant
or
taper water

I honestly think that theres no way one could look better by drastically cutting water. Its also not very healthy and I feel could sacrifice performance on stage as well. I had damn near 3 gallons on show day and all the guys that were cutting water or keeping it minimal were the ones huffng and puffing on stage struggling to hold poses.

[Zarazen]

I think maybe the poll should have the options for....

keep water consistant
or
taper water

I honestly think that theres no way one could look better by drastically cutting water. Its also not very healthy and I feel could sacrifice performance on stage as well. I had damn near 3 gallons on show day and all the guys that were cutting water or keeping it minimal were the ones huffng and puffing on stage struggling to hold poses.

I found this also to be true. It was weird because the guys who really cut water, the i haven't had water in 2 days but i'm now drinking wine before going on stage crowd, were completely WIPED on stage...to add, and what is weird, is that they were sweating like pigs, their color was smearing and leaking etc etc It was so cold in the pump up room that i couldn't wait to get on stage just so i could warm up a little.

[_jim_]

So I guess I'll look like your avatar then! I've competed several years & have done one variation or another of this and have always placed in the top 3...how about you?

Says the guy with no avatar. It was harsh feedback about a subject that has been beaten to death on this site.

[mikespe]

Says the guy with no avatar. It was harsh feedback about a subject that has been beaten to death on this site.

LOL...and on a message board regarding science, nutrition & fitness things get rehashed & replaced. Things are much different from when I competed years ago & things will be much different 20 years from now....get used to it...

As for my lack of avatar...I'm not here criticizing anyone (unless shots are fired at me first). I'm just here to learn and sort through all the trash and baby crap that the mods allow. There's probably about 2% of the members here that actually know what they are talking about...and they are the one's that actually try to HELP people...not try to prove their insecurities by putting them down. The insecure one'st got their education from the University of Muscle & Fitness or Flex Community College! :-)

[DietDoc]

How it's handled on game day can vary body type to body type but there are some very important reasons to stay hydrated in my opinion:

The forum won't let me post an actual link to an article, but if you go to my site, hit "articles", "peaking" and then Gigantic and Dry - some info there. Sorry I couldn't put a direct link. Gotta hit 30 posts first - I'm on my way ; )

[coltmasterj]

What about potassium or creatine loading to try to pull more water into the muscle the day of the show? For a natural competitor, do either of these help the balance between intercellular and extracellular water?
When I did my one and only show in 1999, I had no access to good advice on the whole water issue. I still didn't have a computer yet in those days. So, I had to use what I saw in books written by pro bodybuilders and from word of mouth from the NPC promoter. A book I bought in 1995 called "Sliced" by Negrita Jade told me to cut water and take potassium. The NPC promoter told me to not take any creatine. So, I cut sodium out of my diet completely the week of the show (and through the show), drank minimal water up until the morning of the show, and then began to drink it Saturday morning. I also loaded on potassium the day of the show, but did not use any creatine. I tell you, I may have been dehydrated on show day. I don't know, but I didn't feel pumped, and I was peeing a lot that morning in spite of not really drinking tons of water. I was about 5 pounds less than I was a few days earlier. Maybe I did it right, but the more I read from experienced natural competitors, it sounds like I was a little off on the water thing, and I may have lost 5 pounds of muscle water instead of extracellular water.
Does any experienced natural competitor have better advice on the whole water loading/balance?