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  1. #1
    Registered User WingedBeing's Avatar
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    Fat loss before muscle gain? Or can both be accomplished at the same time?

    I was wondering if it'd be in my best interest to focus on either muscle of fat loss first, or if I could accomplish both at the same time? Would simply mixing in an HIIT routine into a muscle building program allow me to see results?
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  2. #2
    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    You can do both at the same time to a degree, especially if a novice. You have to remain objective and monitor your strength gains / weight loss and be aware of when one or the other stops happening. I would do this first - then do a cut to get down to around 12%. Then a long slow bulk to wherever you want to get to - then a final cut.

    No, throwing HIIT into the mix is not a nutrient parititioning magic bullet.
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by WingedBeing View Post
    I was wondering if it'd be in my best interest to focus on either muscle of fat loss first, or if I could accomplish both at the same time? Would simply mixing in an HIIT routine into a muscle building program allow me to see results?
    Lift to lose... (lose fat that is)... I like to use that phrase when talking with people
    DOIN' WORK!!!
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  4. #4
    Registered User texasDJ's Avatar
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    Subscribed. Interested in same question...
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  5. #5
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    Thanks for giving constructive replies.
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  6. #6
    Registered User onemorerep88's Avatar
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    whats the best style of cardio for fat loss? ive read a bit about HIIT, but other books say aerobic training is the best method for fat loss. confused! just wanna see what works for other people. plus i heard that you dont burn fat when lifting heavy weights........ something to do with exercising anaerobic, and burning muscle glycogen not fat when lifting heavy.
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  7. #7
    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by onemorerep88 View Post
    whats the best style of cardio for fat loss? ive read a bit about HIIT, but other books say aerobic training is the best method for fat loss. confused! just wanna see what works for other people. plus i heard that you dont burn fat when lifting heavy weights........ something to do with exercising anaerobic, and burning muscle glycogen not fat when lifting heavy.
    You burn fat whenever you consume less calories than you expend.

    Consider that the average male expends around 2500 calories a day just by being alive and moving around doing day-to-day tasks. It takes a calorie defecit of 3500 calories to lose 1 lb of fat.

    Now consider that a cardio session might add only an extra 200-400 calories to the number burned....

    Now consider that that number of calories can easily be taken out of your diet... or many more. Most people can safely take up to 1000 calories out of their diet per day = 2lbs lost a week.

    The takehomes from this are:
    - calories in vs. calories out
    - cardio is optional and it's "fat burning" potential is usually overstated by people
    - you must count calories!

    Weight training is done to avoid muscle loss. If you don't do it, up to half of what you lose could be lean tissue. It's not done (primarily) for the calorie burn. To support resistance training you also need to consume enough protein - around 1 gram per lb of lean body mass as a minimum. So in my case, my LBM is around 170 lbs, I need to consume at least 170grams of protein per day - from all the food I eat and any shakes I add to my diet.
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  8. #8
    Registered User onemorerep88's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    You burn fat whenever you consume less calories than you expend.

    Consider that the average male expends around 2500 calories a day just by being alive and moving around doing day-to-day tasks. It takes a calorie defecit of 3500 calories to lose 1 lb of fat.

    Now consider that a cardio session might add only an extra 200-400 calories to the number burned....

    Now consider that that number of calories can easily be taken out of your diet... or many more. Most people can safely take up to 1000 calories out of their diet per day = 2lbs lost a week.

    The takehomes from this are:
    - calories in vs. calories out
    - cardio is optional and it's "fat burning" potential is usually overstated by people
    - you must count calories!

    Weight training is done to avoid muscle loss. If you don't do it, up to half of what you lose could be lean tissue. It's not done (primarily) for the calorie burn. To support resistance training you also need to consume enough protein - around 1 gram per lb of lean body mass as a minimum. So in my case, my LBM is around 170 lbs, I need to consume at least 170grams of protein per day - from all the food I eat and any shakes I add to my diet.

    so u would say to count calories and not focus on the cardio as much?
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by onemorerep88 View Post
    so u would say to count calories and not focus on the cardio as much?
    Yes, you can lose weight wothout excersise. Its all in the diet.
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  10. #10
    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by onemorerep88 View Post
    so u would say to count calories and not focus on the cardio as much?
    Priorities for losing weight are:

    - calorie control
    - weight training
    - adequate protein
    - adequate fat
    - adequate micronurients
    .
    .
    .
    .
    - cardio


    Do it if you want and if it makes you feel good - but never at the expense of lifting if you are short of time or don't recover well from it.
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  11. #11
    Registered User WingedBeing's Avatar
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    Damn, and here I thought HIIT was an effective calorie burner.

    Now what is all this I hear about a jump in caloric use after you build muscle? I understand muscles consume more calories just by existing, but is that number substantial at all?
    Last edited by WingedBeing; 04-10-2012 at 06:26 AM.
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  12. #12
    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WingedBeing View Post
    Now what is all this I hear about a jump in caloric use after you build muscle? I understand muscles consume more calories just by existing, but is that number substantial at all?
    That is also overstated. You have to gain a helluva lot of muscle to make much of an impact. However, the act of gaining mass does have some influence on metabolic hormones. If you run mass gain (high calorie) followed by fat loss (low cal) cycles then you might experience higher overall metabolism than doing one long cut.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Priorities for losing weight are:

    - calorie control
    - weight training
    - adequate protein
    - adequate fat
    - adequate micronurients

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    cardio
    I don't just follow Suffolk around on this board to kiss his butt but he is dead on with this and most of the advice he gives out on the advanced fat loss board...try advanced searching for what he says on this board.

    To reiterate his point, I've lost just shy of 50 pounds with NO cardio. But I am strong as an ox (relatively speaking compared to these huge dudes on this site lol) and have taken full advantage of "noob gains" and put on some muscle...or just exposed it who knows...anyway...not completely no cardio...I do 45 minutes probably once every 2 weeks or so for the sole purpose of heart health. Only doing that much (and lifting HAW..HeavyAssWeights 4 times a week or so) has my resting heart rate under 60 now, when who knows what it was before...probably pushing 100 bpm.
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  14. #14
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    its depends your novice status. You can definitely add muscle while losing fat, especially at the age of 21.
    I gained muscle and lost fat when I first started. Its basically called recomposition. I concentrated on the rep range of 6-8 for 3 sets and 4 exercises per body part, but arms I did just 3 exercises. I would run for 30-40 minutes on the treadmill after lifting weights. Then I would start to do HIIT 2 times a week. Nutrition, I mainly ate foods with high protein and I honestly didnt start paying attention to calories until after 3 months because I didnt really know anything about nutrition.
    I was a very fat kid growing up and by doing this routine, I actually lost 20 lbs and my arms went up 2" in 5 months. This was at the age of 18.
    "I don't say goodbye until the pain says hello. That's how you know the set is done." -Greg Plitt
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  15. #15
    Registered User sophiamitchell3's Avatar
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    Hi there, I just want to ask what is the fastest way to lose weight?
    I've been doing workout for 1 month but there is no result yet. Can you help me?
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  16. #16
    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sophiamitchell3 View Post
    Hi there, I just want to ask what is the fastest way to lose weight?
    I've been doing workout for 1 month but there is no result yet. Can you help me?
    The fastest way is the protein sparing modified fast - google it. Not for the faint hearted. You should do 2-3 weight training workouts per week (no cardio) whilst doing this.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by WingedBeing View Post
    I was wondering if it'd be in my best interest to focus on either muscle of fat loss first, or if I could accomplish both at the same time? Would simply mixing in an HIIT routine into a muscle building program allow me to see results?
    What is your bodyfat right now ?

    If you follow a moderate negative energy diet(10% lower than needed) with a high protein load(25%), moderate carbs(50%) and fat(25%), then depending on your bodyfat, you can maintain(! not build) muscle and lose fat at the same time. If you however, become leaner and leaner, this might be impossible to do albeit you'd still be minimizing your muscle loss in a negative energy balance diet with high proteins.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by ViolentZ View Post
    What is your bodyfat right now ?

    then depending on your bodyfat, you can maintain(! not build) muscle and lose fat at the same time.
    You can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. It's easier if you're overweight, but even a lean person can re-comp. Wish I had the link to an article that explains why/how but I don't
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    Originally Posted by Jolts View Post
    You can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. It's easier if you're overweight, but even a lean person can re-comp. Wish I had the link to an article that explains why/how but I don't
    Lyle McDonald's www .bodyrecomposition. com/ ?
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  20. #20
    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Any recomp attempt is essentially a short series of bulk/cut phases. It's hard to time these well and it can all easily wind up with you treading water. I can't see any good reason why you would not extend your phases to weeks or even months - it would be less prone to problems.
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    Very interested in this thread. I am a newbie and trying to build mass and lose weight at the same time. I was very overweight (around 100lbs overweight) and have now lost 45lbs and have suddenly plateaued a bit on my weight going down. At the same time, I am seeing significant gains in how much weight I can move in the gym. Hanging out on the forums a bit more to see if other folks have had the same experience and to figure out if this is normal or not. I still have around 40lbs to lose I'd estimate, but my weight loss has slowed to a crawl. I have a good handle on my calorie counts, but not my macros. These kinds of threads are GREAT education for me!
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    Smile Muscle over fat

    Gain muscle first. With more muscle on your body you will be burning more calories on a daily basis doing your usual activities. Then once exercise is added in the fat will be easier to loose. Weight train 3 times a week and then do any cardio that you enjoy on the other three days!
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  23. #23
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    hey guys im doing p90x and insanity at the same time is good for losing weight but trying to build muscle at the same time. i do 3 days weights 3 days cardio will this work or not?
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    Registered User enzeru's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jwalt1986 View Post
    hey guys im doing p90x and insanity at the same time is good for losing weight but trying to build muscle at the same time. i do 3 days weights 3 days cardio will this work or not?
    Like everyone here is saying, it's all about nutrition. I think it's been regurgitated several times by several members of this site, but it's all about calories in vs calories out. Other than that, ANY excercise is a plus no matter what it is. I just finished my first round of P90X and saw some awesome muscle definition and fat loss. I'm doing a regular bout of Insanity supplemented by P90X's resistance days w/ additional Ab-Ripper X on resistance days. Cardio helps expend calories, it's not exactly a "fat burner". If you do what I did and concentrated on a moderate yet healthy diet and commit to the program, you WILL lose fat and you WILL build muscle (to a degree). Again, just regurgitating what people said some people don't even do Cardio and still maintain a good BMI.

    Is this your first run of a Beachbody program? If so, I wouldn't recommend playing around with the order of the schedule. Just pick one schedule, and stick with it. Just doing p90x is more than enough for fat loss, the same could be said for Insanity. For building muscle you want to incorporate more resistance workouts w/ increased caloric intake, so I would recommend p90x.
    Last edited by enzeru; 04-20-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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    i think u can gain muscle and lost fat just control ur calories and clean diet with 45% of protien + cardio + fatburner ur metabolisme will get energy from ur fat, Good luuck
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