why is it that....

[Docthal]

the biggest guys in the gym are the guys who are always there? and whenever you read about the routines about pro bodybuilders, they are always working out 5 or 6 days a week?

but you ask "what is the best routine for gaining mass" like so many people have done before, and the answer is always some 3 or 4 day a week program. nobody would ever respond to that question with an intense 6 day split, instead you get like "try SS" which is just 3 days a week and like 9 sets a day.

and like 90% of the time workouts posted to be critiqued that require more than 4 days a week are immediatly shot down.

then again, all the biggest guys in the gyms ive been to work out almost every day. and all of the bobybuilder profiles ive read online say that they work out 5 or 6 days a week.

its just confusing. what i read says one thing, but what makes the most sence and what i see says another thing. one would think that the more you work out, the bigger you get. i mean, if it was the other way around then you could work out once a week for 10 minuets and get ripped, but thats obviously not the case.

[muscleman353]

the biggest guys in the gym are the guys who are always there? and whenever you read about the routines about pro bodybuilders, they are always working out 5 or 6 days a week?

but you ask "what is the best routine for gaining mass" like so many people have done before, and the answer is always some 3 or 4 day a week program. nobody would ever respond to that question with an intense 6 day split, instead you get like "try SS" which is just 3 days a week and like 9 sets a day.

and like 90% of the time workouts posted to be critiqued that require more than 4 days a week are immediatly shot down.

then again, all the biggest guys in the gyms ive been to work out almost every day. and all of the bobybuilder profiles ive read online say that they work out 5 or 6 days a week.

its just confusing. what i read says one thing, but what makes the most sence and what i see says another thing. one would think that the more you work out, the bigger you get. i mean, if it was the other way around then you could work out once a week for 10 minuets and get ripped, but thats obviously not the case.

100% agree with u
most people are pussies who wont admit
who called 6 times a week overtraining?

[MichaelCJ]

It's a lot to do with how "newbie gains" work. And how they don't work. Also, how much bigger/stronger those guys you refer to are getting. I don't mean how big or strong they might seem to you, as it stands. No, how much they're progressing, if at all.

Basically, you can lift heavier if you have full recovery days, do fewer lifts, fewer sets and fewer reps, and so on. Lifting heavier - and continually adding weight, as a newbie can and should - will result in greater strength and size gains, more rapidly.*

Once that newbie hits the intermediate stage though, where gains are no longer quite so easy, various options appear. Such as 4-day (maybe even 5-day or whatever) splits, etc. Some of these might work better in that scenario (though they're not the only way for an intermediate lifter to proceed).

Yes, you can start lifting straight away with a split of some kind. It can work well enough. But gains, all in all, won't be as dramatic.

Unless you're on 'roids, maybe, in which case, just lift some sh!t whenever and you'll get bigger anyhow. :/


* In other words, try doing hardcore full body workouts more than three days a week, and something's gotta give. Weight, generally. Hence, gains. It's not how you might assume, at first glance.

[ktj4l]

The biggest guys at your gym probably aren't natural lifters. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Docthal]

It's a lot to do with how "newbie gains" work. And how they don't work. Also, how much bigger/stronger those guys you refer to are getting. I don't mean how big or strong they might seem to you, as it stands. No, how much they're progressing, if at all.

Basically, you can lift heavier if you have full recovery days, do fewer lifts, fewer sets and fewer reps, and so on. Lifting heavier - and continually adding weight, as a newbie can and should - will result in greater strength and size gains, more rapidly.*

Once that newbie hits the intermediate stage though, where gains are no longer quite so easy, various options appear. Such as 4-day (maybe even 5-day or whatever) splits, etc. Some of these might work better in that scenario (though they're not the only way for an intermediate lifter to proceed).

Yes, you can start lifting straight away with a split of some kind. It can work well enough. But gains, all in all, won't be as dramatic.

Unless you're on 'roids, maybe, in which case, just lift some sh!t whenever and you'll get bigger anyhow. :/


* In other words, try doing hardcore full body workouts more than three days a week, and something's gotta give. Weight, generally. Hence, gains. It's not how you might assume, at first glance.

i gaurentee you none of those guys started off with starting strength or any rookie routine then "worked their way up" to a 5 day split. they have been working out that often since they started and they have been lifting for hypertrophy the whole time. ive been going to that gym for 2 years now nothing has changed.

@ktj4l when i ask "whats the best routine for gaining mass" i mean what is the best routine, not whats best for newbies, not whats best for teenagers, not whats best for the 40 year old guy who still is trying to gain mass, i mean what is the best of the best for gaining mass.

[JSNeves]

I don't remember where I heard it but a great quote:

"there is no such thing as over-training, just attempting to do more then your body is prepared for"

[musikguy72]

when i ask "whats the best routine for gaining mass" i mean what is the best routine, not whats best for newbies, not whats best for teenagers, not whats best for the 40 year old guy who still is trying to gain mass, i mean what is the best of the best for gaining mass.

You're missing the point. There is no overall best. Some ways of training are more optimal than others based on recovery time and training level. So it matters a great deal if you're talking about a newbie, a teenager, a 40 year old getting back into it, an intermediate, or a pro bodybuilder.

[hamworld05]

the biggest guys in the gym are the guys who are always there? and whenever you read about the routines about pro bodybuilders, they are always working out 5 or 6 days a week?

but you ask "what is the best routine for gaining mass" like so many people have done before, and the answer is always some 3 or 4 day a week program. nobody would ever respond to that question with an intense 6 day split, instead you get like "try SS" which is just 3 days a week and like 9 sets a day.

and like 90% of the time workouts posted to be critiqued that require more than 4 days a week are immediatly shot down.

then again, all the biggest guys in the gyms ive been to work out almost every day. and all of the bobybuilder profiles ive read online say that they work out 5 or 6 days a week.

its just confusing. what i read says one thing, but what makes the most sence and what i see says another thing. one would think that the more you work out, the bigger you get. i mean, if it was the other way around then you could work out once a week for 10 minuets and get ripped, but thats obviously not the case.

One of the more time-saving ways of getting bigger is to just get stronger. People usually pack mass on their chest by benching more, yada yada. Getting stronger is usually easier done working out all the time... Of course the easiest way to get stronger is gain weight. The rest days on a program like SS could be the "eating days" and so on.

One of the problems with training all the time is finding the time to eat. When you're in the gym doing curls, you could probably find time to eat muscle building foods but when your job is to do 60 chins a day, you will lose weight because of the sheer volume and rest needed to actually do all those.

But yeah there is no fool-proof routine for adding mass. You have to eat more and be patient. If you eat like an anorexic kid, you could bench 300 pounds and still be skinny(don't ask me how, I'm not completely sure).

[rdferguson]

i gaurentee you none of those guys started off with starting strength or any rookie routine then "worked their way up" to a 5 day split. they have been working out that often since they started and they have been lifting for hypertrophy the whole time. ive been going to that gym for 2 years now nothing has changed.

@ktj4l when i ask "whats the best routine for gaining mass" i mean what is the best routine, not whats best for newbies, not whats best for teenagers, not whats best for the 40 year old guy who still is trying to gain mass, i mean what is the best of the best for gaining mass.

Really? Absolutely no one who is big and muscular started on a beginner's fullbody resistance training program? No one. Nadda?

Fun fact, just to throw your point on its head: Sure, all the biggest guys in the gym tend to do 5-6 day splits. So do all the skinniest guys in the gym who gain maybe 5-10lb starting out, and then stay at the same weight for the next 4 years not knowing why they aren't gaining any more muscle. A good 5 day split is good. A good fullbody program is good. A good high intensity program is good. A good high volume program is good.

There is no single best routine for gaining mass, and there is especially no single best routine for gaining mass regardless of your age, gender, hormone profile, injury history, training history, etc. Every good program factors these things in and focuses on the context of the person training. More isn't always better, but sometimes it is. For a beginner, all you have to do is look at a barbell with a sandwich nearby, and you'll build strength and size. Any further stimulus won't result in further adaptations, just more fatigue and recovery needs. As an elite bodybuilder, the intensity and volume required to gain any fat-free mass in a muscle will be much greater - more fatigue and thus more recovery will be necessary evils to allow for any progress to happen at all. It's all relative.

[SuffolkPunch]

You build up to doing 5-6 days a week. Trying to do this from the outset will probably result in you having to use weights that are too light in comparison to what you'd use if you only went 3x a week.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=139911893

Some people are naturally motivated to work hard but others have to be encouraged to "dig deep" on hard exercises like squats, deads and rows. Doing this everyday would fatigue a newbie both physically and mentally... so some people could train frequently from the outset but probably not the majority of people.

[Jasonk282]

the biggest guys in the gym are the guys who are always there? and whenever you read about the routines about pro bodybuilders, they are always working out 5 or 6 days a week?

but you ask "what is the best routine for gaining mass" like so many people have done before, and the answer is always some 3 or 4 day a week program. nobody would ever respond to that question with an intense 6 day split, instead you get like "try SS" which is just 3 days a week and like 9 sets a day.

and like 90% of the time workouts posted to be critiqued that require more than 4 days a week are immediatly shot down.

then again, all the biggest guys in the gyms ive been to work out almost every day. and all of the bobybuilder profiles ive read online say that they work out 5 or 6 days a week.

its just confusing. what i read says one thing, but what makes the most sence and what i see says another thing. one would think that the more you work out, the bigger you get. i mean, if it was the other way around then you could work out once a week for 10 minuets and get ripped, but thats obviously not the case.

They're probably there all the time because they're recovery time is higer due to the fact that they throw some serious iron around. As you start getting heavier and heavier weights you can no longer add weight every workout or even every week and thus a split becomes more opitimal for you rather than a frequency program.

A split will work for a beginner...but it's not opitimal. And gaining mass has nothing to do with what you do in the gym, it happens in the kitchen.

[dday39]

it's very simple you troll

they've been training for years

it doesn't matter which program you start with, it just has to be sensible with a reasonable progression

now GTFO

[Docthal]

it's very simple you troll

they've been training for years

it doesn't matter which program you start with, it just has to be sensible with a reasonable progression

now GTFO

that was uncalled for. i made a valid observation and recieved several very intelligent responces. then you come in and throw around insults and cuss words

[dday39]

that was uncalled for. i made a valid observation and recieved several very intelligent responces. then you come in and throw around insults and cuss words

I've seen your previous work

[Docthal]

ive made 63 posts so far, not including this one. i read though each and every one them, and i still have no clue what you are refering to.

here i asked pretty much why do the best bodybuilders do different routines then the ones suggested on this site. i dont see what was so offencive about that, and would promp you to call me a troll and to "GTFO"

also i think you got angry before when i asked about bodybuilding vs training for mass. Like im sorry, i heard one of the personal trainers at my gym say there was a difference so i asked about it on the forums. again i dont see why that would provoke such a negative response.

i dont want any trouble, im not trying to "troll" anybody, im only trying to learn

[all pro]

ive made 63 posts so far, not including this one. i read though each and every one them, and i still have no clue what you are refering to.

here i asked pretty much why do the best bodybuilders do different routines then the ones suggested on this site. i dont see what was so offencive about that, and would promp you to call me a troll and to "GTFO"

also i think you got angry before when i asked about bodybuilding vs training for mass. Like im sorry, i heard one of the personal trainers at my gym say there was a difference so i asked about it on the forums. again i dont see why that would provoke such a negative response.

i dont want any trouble, im not trying to "troll" anybody, im only trying to learn

Full body program, 2-3 times per week. no needle required.

[Lackeos]

-The biggest guys are generally on steroids. Their recovery abilities are heightened, and the optimal frequency for them is higher.
-The biggest guys are advanced lifters. The optimal total volume per body part is higher for them than it is for you, and that can result in the need to split-up their workouts more.

[Rnewms]

Advanced lifters split up their workouts and workout more days for longer because they have to in order to stimulate their muscles to grow further and can handle more volume. You shouldn't nor do you need to because you haven't been training for 10 years. Simple as that.

[Azrairc]

perhaps this video will be somewhat enlightening

[Docthal]

-The biggest guys are generally on steroids. Their recovery abilities are heightened, and the optimal frequency for them is higher.

hold on a minuet, the optimal frequency for them is HIGHER? i dont think ive ever seen a pro routine where the same muscle group was worked out more than once a week. the beginners routines i have seen have the most frequency with the same muscle group being worked as much as 3 times a week (full body)

can somebody clear this up? maybe its just terminoligy confusion

[SimonThePieman]

so the fastest car drivers are in F1 Cars? Does that mean that is the best place to start learning. No, you nail down the fundamentals and get the core abilites up then move up in power

[Lackeos]

hold on a minuet, the optimal frequency for them is HIGHER? i dont think ive ever seen a pro routine where the same muscle group was worked out more than once a week. the beginners routines i have seen have the most frequency with the same muscle group being worked as much as 3 times a week (full body)

can somebody clear this up? maybe its just terminoligy confusion

I'm not sure why I phrased it like that, I must have been tired, so forget that, replace it with this: on steroids, they can get away with taking fewer days off because of better recovery. Also, they can get away with throwing more volume at their body parts, so a more split-up routine with a zillion sets per body part would favor them more than it would a natural lifter.

[batman37]

There are a number of reasons why big dudes are always in the gym.

Workouts with splits more then 4 days are shot down because for a newbie it is much better to do a full body program. Newbies have the potential to pack on a lot of muscle with very little stimulation, which allows them to work the same muscle groups multiple times a week because of quick recovery.
Another reason is that someone who is new to lifting does not have the neural capacity to really go all out, as you lift and perform the same movements many times your cns becomes more efficient and you gain the capacity to increase intensity and work a given muscle harder.
Coincidentally as you built stamina and start to plateau, you may find it more beneficial to train with a split which will give you more days off from training the same muscle group which will be required as you ramp up intensity.

[Docthal]

I'm not sure why I phrased it like that, I must have been tired, so forget that, replace it with this: on steroids, they can get away with taking fewer days off because of better recovery. Also, they can get away with throwing more volume at their body parts, so a more split-up routine with a zillion sets per body part would favor them more than it would a natural lifter.

oh ok that makes sense

[Alyion]

As said above, 4-6 day splits are born outta necessity. After a few years of basic training imbalances and weak points become more apparant and mean that extra workouts/attention need to be given to these areas.

[jesserii]

The biggest guys at your gym probably aren't natural lifters. Sorry to burst your bubble.

See above, the massive dudes who like they are on something and work out 6 days a week, well they are on something, its pretty simple...you can't destroy your body and rest one day a week and except any kind of gains unless you injecting a little something to speed recovery......not an expert but just saying

[Docthal]

See above, the massive dudes who like they are on something and work out 6 days a week, well they are on something, its pretty simple...you can't destroy your body and rest one day a week and except any kind of gains unless you injecting a little something to speed recovery......not an expert but just saying

unless of course, your on a 6 day split and you give each separate muscle group a week to recover. you would literaly have to destroy your muscles to 0 or have the worst genetics ever if you couldnt recover in 7 days.

[bravo96]

See above, the massive dudes who like they are on something and work out 6 days a week, well they are on something, its pretty simple...you can't destroy your body and rest one day a week and except any kind of gains unless you injecting a little something to speed recovery......not an expert but just saying

lots of naturall lifters train 6 days a week and grow just fine.

[GodMadeDirt]

The biggest guys at your gym probably aren't natural lifters. Sorry to burst your bubble.

-The biggest guys are generally on steroids. .

Advanced lifters split up their workouts and workout more days for longer because they have to in order to stimulate their muscles to grow further and can handle more volume. You shouldn't nor do you need to because you haven't been training for 10 years. Simple as that.

!!!!!!

[hamworld05]

lots of naturall lifters train 6 days a week and grow just fine.

Eh imo it's mostly diet, not training.