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  1. #31
    Registered User JerryB's Avatar
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    Creatine monohydrate supplementing increases the level of creatine phosphate for the phosphagen system. In this system creatine phosphate is broken down quickly and its energy is used to supply ATP for muscle contraction. The phosphagen system a very short duration source of ATP and supplementing with creatine monohydrate is to enhance the length of the phosphagen system during strenuous exercises.

    I donít think I benefit from taking creatine monohydrate unless Iíll really pushing myself.
    How can you visualize the training of a muscle if you don't know its structure?
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  2. #32
    Registered User dbx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JerryB View Post
    Creatine monohydrate supplementing increases the level of creatine phosphate for the phosphagen system. In this system creatine phosphate is broken down quickly and its energy is used to supply ATP for muscle contraction. The phosphagen system a very short duration source of ATP and supplementing with creatine monohydrate is to enhance the length of the phosphagen system during strenuous exercises.

    I don’t think I benefit from taking creatine monohydrate unless I’ll really pushing myself.
    LOL, Jerry, we were joking about creatine, bruh . No one with half a brain would dispute the efficacy or benefit of creatine. I refuse to go back into some infantile argument about this simple subject, so I will leave it at that.
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  3. #33
    Is Numero Uno OutOfStep's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    I have heard of teH kreateens, but not sure of the efficacy. I think a few people have written about it, but not sure. Yes, you will defiantly bloat with waters when using it, no matter what kind you use. teH walmart brand is one of the worst, so I've herd. aLL it does is make muskles look hooge for a few days, but then you loose all teH gains if you stop taking it. Waste of money.
    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Not to mention that it's like steroidz, and will hold water under yer skin, and cauze you to loose all yer cutz.
    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    Ya, I forgot that part. thanKs for adding that! Beside, some of us don't want to get all that hooge, anywayz.
    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Yepz. Don't wanna be a "meat-head."
    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    Exactly! I took teH keateens for a few months one time and I had to buy a whole bunches of new clothes cuz mah muskels were breaking thru mah shirts and pants cuz of the bloat!
    Thanks guys! I'll stay away from that creatine stuff then. Sounds dangerous! Plus, I'm not looking to get meathead huge. I'm going for more of a thin streamline look.
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  4. #34
    Registered User dbx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OutOfStep View Post
    Thanks guys! I'll stay away from that creatine stuff then. Sounds dangerous! Plus, I'm not looking to get meathead huge. I'm going for more of a thin streamline look.
    No problem. My daughter has some cool magazines that contain the very look that you seem to be after. PM your email addy, and I'll share.
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  5. #35
    Is Numero Uno OutOfStep's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    No problem. My daughter has some cool magazines that contain the very look that you seem to be after. PM your email addy, and I'll share.
    PM sent!
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  6. #36
    No longer in denial Nikonguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by outofstep View Post
    the real question i have is about creatine. Does it work? I wonder if anyone has studied it. I heard it just makes your muscles bloat up with water.
    Originally Posted by rowyn View Post
    there are actually quite a number of studies out there on it. I am a total supplement skeptic. But i decided to try creatine monohydrate after hearing several people i respect concede that it does work in a good number of people (i believe the number is 70%). This is totally anecdotal, but my husband and i both started taking it recently to try it out. Both of us experienced a noticeable change in strength and appearance. He's leaner than i am so it was easier to see the effects.

    Here's one study:

    Performance and muscle fiber adaptations to creatine supplementation and heavy resistance training.
    Volek js, duncan nd, mazzetti sa, staron rs, putukian m, gůmez al, pearson dr, fink wj, kraemer wj.
    Sourcedepartment of kinesiology/center for sports medicine, the pennsylvania state university, university park 16802, usa.

    Abstract
    purpose: The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of creatine supplementation in conjunction with resistance training on physiological adaptations including muscle fiber hypertrophy and muscle creatine accumulation.

    Methods: Nineteen healthy resistance-trained men were matched and then randomly assigned in a double-blind fashion to either a creatine (n = 10) or placebo (n = 9) group. Periodized heavy resistance training was performed for 12 wk. Creatine or placebo capsules were consumed (25 g x d(-1)) for 1 wk followed by a maintenance dose (5 g x d(-1)) for the remainder of the training.

    Results: After 12 wk, significant (p < or = 0.05) increases in body mass and fat-free mass were greater in creatine (6.3% and 6.3%, respectively) than placebo (3.6% and 3.1%, respectively) subjects. After 12 wk, increases in bench press and squat were greater in creatine (24% and 32%, respectively) than placebo (16% and 24%, respectively) subjects. Compared with placebo subjects, creatine subjects demonstrated significantly greater increases in type i (35% vs 11%), iia (36% vs 15%), and iiab (35% vs 6%) muscle fiber cross-sectional areas. Muscle total creatine concentrations were unchanged in placebo subjects. Muscle creatine was significantly elevated after 1 wk in creatine subjects (22%), and values remained significantly greater than placebo subjects after 12 wk. Average volume lifted in the bench press during training was significantly greater in creatine subjects during weeks 5-8. No negative side effects to the supplementation were reported.

    Conclusion: Creatine supplementation enhanced fat-free mass, physical performance, and muscle morphology in response to heavy resistance training, presumably mediated via higher quality training sessions.

    Pmid:10449017[pubmed - indexed for medline]


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  7. #37
    Registered User JerryB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    LOL, Jerry, we were joking about creatine, bruh . No one with half a brain would dispute the efficacy or benefit of creatine. I refuse to go back into some infantile argument about this simple subject, so I will leave it at that.
    Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
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  8. #38
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    It really depends on who you are and what you are seeking to do. For general health and fitness neither is needed. If you are a marathon runner, BCAAs might help reduce fatigue during long duration cardio. They might reduce protein breakdown during low carb diets but if your not doing that i dont think its needed. Some research finds that BCAAs increase appetite in older adults but since your 48, thats not you (think 80 year olds)

    As for glutamine, most research focuses on either marathon runners or people with cancer etc (glutamine is injected). Here is my review of glutamine research for more info http://supplement-geek.com/glutamine...search-review/

    There is a time and a place for both but again, while they wont hurt, I'm not convinced you need them.
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  9. #39
    Registered User soccerdad5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoeCannonMSCSCS View Post
    It really depends on who you are and what you are seeking to do. For general health and fitness neither is needed. If you are a marathon runner, BCAAs might help reduce fatigue during long duration cardio. They might reduce protein breakdown during low carb diets but if your not doing that i dont think its needed. Some research finds that BCAAs increase appetite in older adults but since your 48, thats not you (think 80 year olds)

    As for glutamine, most research focuses on either marathon runners or people with cancer etc (glutamine is injected). Here is my review of glutamine research for more info http://supplement-geek.com/glutamine...search-review/

    There is a time and a place for both but again, while they wont hurt, I'm not convinced you need them.
    Joe or anyone, what is the best value ($$) BCAA in the market right now?
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  10. #40
    Revolver Ocelot EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by soccerdad5 View Post
    Joe or anyone, what is the best value ($$) BCAA in the market right now?
    The SciVation Extend is actually very cheap cents per gram of BCAA. I have never tried it though, and generally don't use BCAA, I just figured out it was cheap at one point.

    Seems to be well reviewed.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    Nothing new here, and I will not even contemplate entering a debate with someone over this. Read, research and decide for yourself. It's really that easy.
    But just remember this: Anecdotal "evidence" is almost always bull$hit...when related to nearly any subject where science doesn't support it.

    Here's one to blow your mind...and really push the edge here, lofl; you know all those OTC glucosamine, chondroiten, etc.,? Yeah, tons of testimonials...not much science to back it. LOFL, they sell it big time for animals, too!. The reason I bring this one up? Because it is probably one (coupled/combined) supplement that so many people swear by, that it is quite possible (imo) that science hasn't quite figured out the connection(s) in studies performed to date. But again, to keep known facts alive here...this single/coupled supplement does/has not shown any conclusive benefit in studies (since I last looked, two years ago)!

    Placebo...it's what's for dinner.

    So true on so many levels. Just like the ZMA issues. The "studies" showing huge spikes in testosterone levels were found to not only be fraudulent, but back by a guy who was involved in altering data to initiate sales. Yet even today, people are still swearing by the massive benefits of the exact same ingredients you find in a multivitamin. Blows my mind.....
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  12. #42
    THIS IS SPARTA! corepuncher's Avatar
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    BCAA and Glutamine capsules are dirt cheap, so not much risk. I would stay away from the expensive concoctions.

    My guess is the effect is so small, it will be hard to discern any change, but hey sometimes there are synergies not accounted for, everyone has different variables. I like taking them, just for the chance they may provide some sort of improvement. Studies may disagree, but these are among the small handful of supplements "most" agree have some value. I don't see the downside. If you're strapped for cash then just take your protein, they have all that stuff in them anyway. Boomer!
    Last edited by corepuncher; 01-13-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    BCAAs: Like DS said, its found in whole foods. However, it can be beneficial when used by athletes in various endeavors, including runner's, who can use fast absorbing supp before or after strenuous exercise (such as long distance running, or very long cardio sessions. IMO, BBer's really don't need this supp, as long as they eat appropriately each day during their training regimen/program.
    I'm training for a 1/2 marathon and lifting. I bought some xtend based on what I read (using the search function 4tehwin) here. So thanks. Its tasty too.
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by soonerman4life View Post
    Got it. I'm fairly certain I'm eating the right foods and at the right times. I put a lot of attention and detail to macro management so I'm probably getting what i need through food sources. As for the quality protein, I know I get good protein with food but not sure about my supplemental protein source. I'm currently using Gold Standard Whey in the morning and post workout. Occasionally I'll have a 3rd serving if I need to make up some protein in my macro management.

    Thanks guys, I knew I'd get some solid advice off of this board.
    BCAA :
    help reduce abdominal fat in particular (google it ) and it works (persn experience)

    gives energy during workout

    fools the body making it believe you're in catabolism as it thinks seeing BCAA in yr blood that you are "burning" muscles so the body
    goes to trigger glycogen and fat reserves to compensate (google it)

    go directly to muscles without going through the liver (vs complete protein be it food or powders)

    best to take the pure form not the the one combined with "sugars" (and you get more for yr bucks)

    I would favor a diet made of 3 good meals, 1 shake and bcaa (morning, around workout, between meals) rather stuffing ourselves with protein shakes.
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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by JerryB View Post
    BCAA is one of the few supplements I use on a daily basis. I started supplementing BCAA over 15 years ago after reading muscle tissue can be broken down by the body to obtain BCAA as a source to supply energy. This source of energy was discussed in an exercise physiology text book I purchased. My daily consumption of proteins from meals average only about 125 to 175 grams per day. So I augmented my source of BCAA to the equivalent of a higher level of protein consumption by supplementation. My thinking was a sufficient amount of BCAA would minimize the catabolic effect on muscles for supplying BCAA. I began doing this way before the supplement industry started pushing BCAA to everybody even if they are getting adequate amounts from their diets.

    The body can make enough glutamine for its regular needs and there is no convincing evidence to support supplementing.
    very good experience. indeed allows us to eat less protein and tax less the kidneys and liver. I believe in this approach too: moderate protein (max 1gr/lb of LEAN bodyweight) and add pure BCAA (15-20gr in 3-4takes), don't forget vit B6 spread out also.
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