Value of Deadlifts?

[JamesPhoenix]

I'm lifting for aesthetics and really couldn't care less about strength. Just read a BB.com article on Phil Heath and noticed he doesn't include deadlifts in his training schedule - which supports my suspicion that they aren't necessary. What do you fine people think is the value of deadlifting on back day? I should point out I'm not talking about straight-leg deads, those always find a way into my leg days. Thanks for any input!

[DJAuto]

No exercise is necessary.

[JamesPhoenix]

No exercise is necessary.

Good point, but am I missing much by skipping them? What are some recommendations for what I should be doing instead?

[CanadianEric]

I refer you to : http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=143529823 "18 years old back progress..Heavy deads=big back"

I'll leave you to decide if his body is aesthetically acceptable.

End of thread.

[XtremeOCD]

I'll go with the "nothing is totally necessary" but it is very beneficial in that it hits so many muscles in that one compound exercise, that it makes it kind of a good exercise to have in your routine. In a nut shell though, the choice is totally yours. You seem to be in good shape going by your profile pic ( no homo) so go with what's working for you and not what someone says you have to do.

Just my 2 cents.

[sippiboy1987]

I've found that by doing pull ups SS with chin ups on a lat pull down I achieved pretty good thickness in my middle back and lats. That's just me though.. I'm sure with deads I could see more gains but with a bad lower back, sucks for me

[TigerStealth]

everyone has their own goals, and Phil Heath certainly knows what he is doing, but I think it is important to find what works for you not what works for Mr. Olympia. So I would recommend trying deadlifts for a few months and see what type of progress you get. Personally I love deads for building traps, erectors, lats, hamstrings, calves, arms, lower back, etc

[BOOGADA]

I've found that by doing pull ups SS with chin ups on a lat pull down I achieved pretty good thickness in my middle back and lats. That's just me though.. I'm sure with deads I could see more gains but with a bad lower back, sucks for me

I've started doing deadlifts in hopes it will strengthen my lower back. I haven't had a serious problem with my back in years and I'm hoping DLs will help keep it that way.

[lotus_esprit5]

It doesn't surprise me that Phil Heath doesn't include deadlifts in his routine. It seems like a lot of bodybuilders, once they get up to a certain size and competition level, either stop doing deadlifts regularly altogether or swap out standard deadlifts for straight-legged or stiff-legged deadlifts.

I assume there are a couple reasons for this. First off, at their size they're deadlifting really heavy and it would make sense to worry about their waists growing. I think deadlifts get too much of a bad rap for increasing waist size, but when you get up to Phil's size it's probably a more valid concern. They're also gonna be worried about injuries, and at this point they've also built most of the mass they're ever gonna have and are more focused on fine-tuning.

As for you, I'm sure you can benefit from standard deadlifts. It's absolutely possible to build an impressive back without deadlifts, but for many people deadlifts are one of the most efficient ways of adding back size. I think a back routine without deadlifts is kind of like a leg routine without squats - you'll get results, but are you getting the BEST results you can? Maybe, maybe not. Deadlifts tear up my back and when I skip them on back day I spend the rest of the week feeling like my back didn't get the full treatment. Other people don't feel them in their back so much. Try adding them to your routine for a month and see how it goes. They're such a staple and can be so effective that you owe it to yourself to give it a shot.

tldr; you don't need to do deadlifts to build a good back, but damn can they help.

[PeterGibbons316]

I'll go with the "nothing is totally necessary" but it is very beneficial in that it hits so many muscles in that one compound exercise, that it makes it kind of a good exercise to have in your routine.

^This

It may not do much for your aesthetic goals, but it will sure help lot of other lifts, many of which will help you meet your goals.

[Tyciol]

For those of us with ****ty backs and flexibility, the seated row could also build static strength in the erectors too right?

[DJAuto]

Good point, but am I missing much by skipping them? What are some recommendations for what I should be doing instead?

You won't miss much because strength isn't your goal. The DL is a power movement -- based upon strength performance. Instead, you can target the erectors, back and hamstrings directly (rows, hyperextensions, hamstring curls, etc.).

For those of us with ****ty backs and flexibility, the seated row could also build static strength in the erectors too right?

Sure, but most don't use a conventional seated row as a lower back movement.

[thomasDB]

Meh..not necessary, but its my favorite exercise so I do them even if I lift for aesthetics/strength..

You can find other exercise that will get you a good looking back but deadlifts are great to add overall back mass + they're fun imo..

[IDrinkBloodLOL]

I can't tell you how valuable the deadlift is because I can't count that high. They don't have numbers to measure that kind of thing.

[Anthony21]

I hate seeing this type of sh!t. "I'm lifting for aesthetics man". Fukc all that. Deadlift!!! It's one of the best lifts you can possibly do. Grab a barbell and deadlift. If not have fun doing 20 reps of dumbbell curls.

[Dysun]

Do whatever you want. Not one exercise is required

Dont let the idiots on here tell you otherwise either, they should be due any minute to hammer you with squats n deads dood

[StrappingYngLad]

Does training for aesthetics mean chest and biceps everyday?

[NZninja101]

I'll start by saying that OP, your argument is flawed. Sure, Phil doesn't deadlift, but Ronnie did, Arnold did, Dorian did, etc

Some do and some don't. So there's little weight to this argument either way.


Its also worth considering that part of the reason why people say that the deadlift is more of a strength than size movement is because they treat it like more of a strength than size movement. Its funny when people do deadlifts for very low reps, with long rest between sets, without focusing on mind muscle connection and without controlling the negative beyond a token amount, and then they turn around and say that deadlifts didn't do much for them with regard to size.

Youdon'tsay.jpg

It doesn't surprise me that Phil Heath doesn't include deadlifts in his routine. It seems like a lot of bodybuilders, once they get up to a certain size and competition level, either stop doing deadlifts regularly altogether or swap out standard deadlifts for straight-legged or stiff-legged deadlifts.

I assume there are a couple reasons for this. First off, at their size they're deadlifting really heavy and it would make sense to worry about their waists growing. I think deadlifts get too much of a bad rap for increasing waist size, but when you get up to Phil's size it's probably a more valid concern. They're also gonna be worried about injuries, and at this point they've also built most of the mass they're ever gonna have and are more focused on fine-tuning.

As for you, I'm sure you can benefit from standard deadlifts. It's absolutely possible to build an impressive back without deadlifts, but for many people deadlifts are one of the most efficient ways of adding back size. I think a back routine without deadlifts is kind of like a leg routine without squats - you'll get results, but are you getting the BEST results you can? Maybe, maybe not. Deadlifts tear up my back and when I skip them on back day I spend the rest of the week feeling like my back didn't get the full treatment. Other people don't feel them in their back so much. Try adding them to your routine for a month and see how it goes. They're such a staple and can be so effective that you owe it to yourself to give it a shot.

tldr; you don't need to do deadlifts to build a good back, but damn can they help.

Very interesting post.

[MichaelCJ]

Whatever you are lifting for, or even not lifting for, make sure you address any serious existing or potential imbalances in muscle development. So, if for example you strengthen your abs, make sure your lower back is also strengthened. If your upper body is growing, make sure your lower body also is. Et cetera.

Deadlifts are fantastic for much of the posterior chain, and then some. In particular the lower body parts thereof. As many people are prone to overemphasising the upper body and/or the front of the body, I can heartily recommend deadlifts as, if not a cureall, a damn good place to start. Excellent ROI (aka "value"), just like every other compund lift worth its salt. If you're an advanced lifter, perhaps you could lean on more isolation lifts for specific effects, or whatever. But if you're a newbie, compounds only is very viable, and I would recommend this approach for a variety of reasons.

But anyway, yes, you could instead do seated cable rows, weighted back extensions, etc., etc.

That's my perspective, anyway.


Oh, and this guy did LOTS of deadlifts, if it matters...

[Benhouse89]

Deadlifts and squats pump you up like nothing else. I don't know why people would avoid these exercises (besides previous injuries), they build size so quick.

[kanis999]

I would also argue that deadlifts give you support and stability in almost all other lifts. It will help you achieve stricter form and thus better isolation. For example, bicep curls and OHP are much safer and more isolated if you can control your posterior chain to make your whole body a rigid straight line, and only move at the correct joints. And the muscles used in deadlift actually come into play a lot when executing a heavy bench press.

[ThickAsABrick]

IMO and IME they are a distant third to rows and vertical pulls.

That said, give them (or rack pulls) a shot and make your own determination.

[mrmrbill]

I'm lifting for aesthetics and really couldn't care less about strength. Just read a BB.com article on Phil Heath and noticed he doesn't include deadlifts in his training schedule - which supports my suspicion that they aren't necessary.

Don't take celeb articles too seriously. They're often "moments of truth" of how the interviewee is thinking at the time, but subject to much conflicting info:

1. DLs are still listed in Phil's back routine: http://www.phillipheath.com/workouts/index.htm
.
.
.
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Deadlifts 3 X 8-12

2. Phil DLs in "The Gift" DVD (~4:15):


All, some, none of the above may/may not be current. IOW, take articles with a grain of salt.

[RLAR]

I go with "No exercise is necessary".

But I personally think that the Deadlift is too good to not do, specially if your serious about size and/or strength. Deadlifts allow you to hit so many muscles with big weights. Also I just love the appeal to it, just pick up some heavy a** weights off the floor (all technicalities aside).

[RugbyTank]

All depends on what type of aesthetics your goal is?

For BB or for looking good as in for clubs/girls etc...

If its not for BB, then in that case all you really minimally need is good nutrition + iso.

[terman1]

I'm lifting for aesthetics and really couldn't care less about strength. Just read a BB.com article on Phil Heath and noticed he doesn't include deadlifts in his training schedule - which supports my suspicion that they aren't necessary....

Is there any other underlying reason (i.e. previous injury) why you don't want to do them other the you're "lifting for aesthetics" or that you read an article somewhere that a pro bodybuilder doesn't do them so why should you?

There's been lots opinions posted so far but I suspect based on the one-sidedness your initial post that you already made up you mind that you're not going to do them, regardless of what anyone else here has to say.

Bottom line is only you can decide if a particular exercise is worth your time and efforts. It's perfectly fine if something is not in your plans to do right now but always try your best to keep an open mind and be sure that the choices you make are based on the right reasons.



Best of luck on you goals.

[racketteer]

I refer you to : http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=143529823 "18 years old back progress..Heavy deads=big back"

I'll leave you to decide if his body is aesthetically acceptable.

End of thread.

this argument can go the other way too. one kids progress doesn't mean everyone will get the same results and IIRC that kid has used gear. in the 4 months I've been back into the lifting, I have only deadlifted once (SI joint dysfunction) yet I built a back like this almost exclusively with rowing and pullup movements.



you really don't need to do them unless you are looking for strength and even then they don't need to be done often. IME strength gained through deadlifting tends to "stick" around a lot longer than adaptions from other lifts. I pulled 405x5 and 455x1 after almost a year off from the weights.

[muscleman353]

just ****in do em now and dont be a pussy.i didnt and now the lower back became a weak link of mine.yes u can get a good back without deadlift and good legs without squats.but anyone who thinks squats is just for legs and deads just for back is an idiot.if u are so afraid u get injured try the sumo (less lower back more hips)

[JamesPhoenix]

Does training for aesthetics mean chest and biceps everyday?

Hardly. Pure mass without any cutness is just obesity, and doesn't impress me in the slightest. Some will disagree, but it's not my goal.

[JamesPhoenix]

Is there any other underlying reason (i.e. previous injury) why you don't want to do them other the you're "lifting for aesthetics" or that you read an article somewhere that a pro bodybuilder doesn't do them so why should you?

There's been lots opinions posted so far but I suspect based on the one-sidedness your initial post that you already made up you mind that you're not going to do them, regardless of what anyone else here has to say.

Bottom line is only you can decide if a particular exercise is worth your time and efforts. It's perfectly fine if something is not in your plans to do right now but always try your best to keep an open mind and be sure that the choices you make are based on the right reasons.



Best of luck on you goals.

Sorry for the double post but I think you're right. I don't like doing deadlifts: the few times I've tried have resulted in chest and back pain, as well as extreme pain in my wrist and ankle joints the next day. I know an article on a pro is hardly sufficient reason to skip them; I'm just noticing many reasons not to do them and not a whole lot in favor. Maybe it's just as effective without the need for a million isolation exercises, but I'm not in the gym to make myself suffer. Lol

To answer another post, I recognize that a lot of people like the idea of just picking up a bunch of weight. That's all well and good, but what I meant by aesthetics isn't so much that deadlifts are counter-productive (though in my experience powerlifters are obese sloptarts). I meant I do not care at all how much I'm lifting.

What I'm gathering from reading these is that they're helpful and certainly a challenge for those interested, but not at all necessary as long as you compensate with other exercises and don't plan on competing. That sound about right?