~~StrongMeats Comprehensive Guide to Cutting for the Very Overweight/Obese~~

[StrongMeat]

*****Disclaimer*****
This guide is specifically about learning reasonable eating habits and meeting calorie requirements without mental stress
This guide is not for those who are already in shape and know what they are doing(but can potentially help)
This guide is NOT the only way to lose weight but I have found personally to be extremely effective
There is NOTHING wrong with eating clean, but for someone with a whole lifetime of eating bad a drastic change you results in failure thus my mainstream approach

First and foremost, the wavelength How to lose fat for noobs is GOSPEL and should be followed, however there are things not listed in the thread that I wish to address here

Alittle about myself:

Back in September I was a fatty well over 35% BF as illustrated here:
http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img...rv4ab1510.jpeg

Just a couple weeks ago:
http://i41.tinypic.com/6pw68l.jpg

Things you will need if you are just starting:
1) Access to a gym with barbells and free weights
2) Multi vitamin
3) Willpower

as stated in the sticky, the number one aspect of losing weight is cutting below maintenance calories, however in my time here finding your "maintenance" is a hotly debated subject. For the overweight/obese you simply didnt become that way being active. More than likely you are sedentary, and years from now that habit probably wont change all to much

therefore for your sake(the overweight reader) we will ALWAYS assume you are sedentary, using this calculator which ive found to be one of the more accurate you will always assume only 1 hour of moderate intensity, 3 Very Light, and 20 Resting for optimal numbers.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

after inputting your data, you will be given a maintenance. To lose weight you must subtract 500-800 calories from this number to find your range for the day. You will NOT eat more than the number highest(500 less than maintenance) and no LESS than the lowest(800 less than maintenance)

With this in mind, your lifting regimen is on you. Ive found that any routine is usually fine for the goal of cutting as long as you workout atleast 2 times a week hitting every body part(this could be 5,4,3 times it doesnt matter just hit every bodypart/system each week). Will you gain strength while cutting? Potentially but realistically I wouldnt expect much, but nevertheless always go 100% and lift to your "technical" limit(which i define as until you cannot lift the weight with proper form). Please stay safe.

Now to the nitty gritty of the guide

Cutting and How to meet Calorie Requirements:

The first thing you must cut out in order to be successful is LIQUID CALORIES. Juice, Soda, even Milk should be removed(the exception being milk when in use of a protein shake) soft drinks and other liquid cals are ALWAYS defined in 8oz servings and it is just way too easy to drink your way out of your cutting deficit. Cutting liquid calories alone will knock 600-1000 cals off your daily numbers. Have a soda addiction(i do) try pepsi max, ive found it has the least after taste and when eating fast food and other fried foods and/or pizza it gets the job done yet with 0 calories against your numbers. For everything else water, water, and more damn water. Learn to love it and youll progress.

Secondly how do you know what to eat and what not to eat? In my opinion the only foods that you should simply avoid are sweets. If you can fit them into your daily expenditure you probably wont be hitting protein requirements so I say just once a week or not at all. IIFYM which i subscribe to follows the rule of counting only overall macros in Calories, Protein, Carbs, and Fats. While for intermediate and advanced cutters carbs and fats make a difference for the obese/overweight i feel its irrelevant so for the sake of this guide we will only focus on Calories/Protein

Calories vs Protein, and Fast Food

More specifically the Calorie to Protein ratio, the ratio that Ive used for ALL my meals is to eat NOTHING that is more than 20 cals per 1 gram of protein. In chemistry we often call the limiting factor in a reaction the limiting reagent. You will notice that protein often is the limiting factor in most foods, High protein foods are what you want always. Doesnt matter where they come from carb/fat content irrelvant any ratio less than 20 cals per 1 gram of protein is GOOD. Double quarter pounder with cheese? 750 cals 55g protein aka 14cals per 1 gram of protein. We're in business. Almost all fast food chains have "power" meals/sandwiches as i call them. Take the time to search the calorie requirements of many of their meals and find the one that is most delicious to you that is less than 20 cals 1 gram protein and you cant fail. What this basically means is that ANY AND ALL food that meets this basic requirement will make for success, and because high protein food is very satiating you will rarely be hungry and you will also be pretty satisfied(maybe even forget youre dieting) I use the loseit app but myfitnesspal works as well but truth be told just about every fast food maker has nutrient info. If they do not? Don't eat there. Don't take a chance on a place just to fill your belly, you always have options and part of body recomposition is making new and better choices. This is a simple one. Always eat known quantities.

Calories vs Protein, Homecooked Meals

Now to cooking, and you highschoolers who are still fed by mom. This is where counting imo is the hardest. Without a food scale its impossible to really get close to accurate numbers. So what I do is this figure out what you can from the nutrition facts given. Estimate the portion amounts used. Count it up. Then add 200-300 calories. Its better to be safe than sorry imo. Easy ways to bring down the overall number of a homecooked meal is to fill up on veggies and take it easy on carbs. Or better yet eat carbs that have defined serving amounts(dinner rolls etc) That imo is the best way to manage. Losing carbs in general is what makes most diets fail so I dont do that myself. But little changes make a difference in how they affect you in the long run.

The key to really making it work is counting. The time it takes is minutes. You can do this on your phone, at your job ,when you wake up, when you go to bed, it doesnt really matter. What matters is that you eat food you like and still hit your numbers. Why did i mention 20 cals per 1 gram protein earlier? Well look here

say your maintenance is 2500 cals, so your cutting numbers are now 2000cals. With the BARE minimum ratio for the day you still ingest 100g protein and for most people cutting this will suffice. For the naysayers bulking and cutting arent simply opposites of eachother, 100g WILL work not saying for everyone and truth be told you want it closer to your LBM than anything. However the problem with calculating closer to LBM is this:

LBM, BF%, and other crap you shouldnt worry about right now

Noone who is obese really knows their true LBM, it is not efficient to seek it either. What does your bodyfat test tell you? You are "This" fat. Who gives a shyt, you are fat and you already knew that. Its not important and you should wipe it from your mind. So how do you measure your losses? 2 things: The Mirror and Tape measure. They are the only quantities that will always be true to you, BF% calipers will only be effective sub 20% and even then they are inaccurate, getting estimates from other people can give you mixed results and in the end you know if you are still fat or not. The mirror and Tape measure. Weigh yourself once a week and list the number down. I GUARANTEE if you follow my simple calorie counting guide and the wavelength sticky you will lose weight(whether that is fat or not depends on if you LIFT). It needs to be said that if you do not lift, you WILL LOSE MUSCLE MASS AND YOU PROBABLY WILL BE SKINNY FAT...so LIFT this includes men, women, children and your animals

Irrelevant factors:
Cardio(too inaccurate to track as an obese person, will cause you to overeat. Simply set a deficit number and hunker down)
Fat and Carb counting(if you are sticking to the ratio you cant fail, high protein foods are good foods if you are diligent)
Fasting(Does it work? Yes. Is it mentally challenging? Yes. this guide is dummyproof and allows you to eat like a normal person)
Eating Timing(see below)

now one big thing on how i count daily. I count calories on a 24 hour period. When you eat late at night i consider a meal at 1 in the morning calories counted FOR THAT DAY. While yes you can eat anytime remember that any late night gorging still needs to be counted for its respective time frame. EVERYTHING THAT GOES IN TO YOUR MOUTH WITH CALORIES needs to be counted. Dont skimp on ANYTHING

Following these rules ive lost 1-3lbs a week without fail since starting in October. Only one week did I gain a pound and that was around the holidays(we are only human)

If you have more specific questions feel free to ask as Im always up for helping people. If you are new to cutting I hope this guide helps you

good luck

-StrongMeat-

[Spanishdream]

A well written guide.

A very good point about ignoring LBM, BF% and this goes for quite a number of posts here daily asking about their numbers. It's largely irrelevant until you're leaner, and deciding whether or not you have enough mass to cut to. The mirror, with a monthly weigh-in is the best method.

[StrongMeat]

A well written guide.

A very good point about ignoring LBM, BF% and this goes for quite a number of posts here daily asking about their numbers. It's largely irrelevant until you're leaner, and deciding whether or not you have enough mass to cut to. The mirror, with a monthly weigh-in is the best method.

I really wanted to address that the most to be honest

most guides are always written with LBM as the focal point but truth be told fat people will almost ALWAYS overestimate their LBM even if told otherwise, it gets in the way of cutting and puts unreasonable protein requirements for most people

IE: 6 foot 300lb person thinks he has 200lbs of muscle, cuts away 140 lbs realizes he only had a 120 the whole time


I know people will continue to ask the same mundane questions but I've noticed that there is a discrepancy on information given due to the bodybuilding/competitive nature of this site. Athletes and those training for events based on body composition have much more unreasonable habits than your average guy

-StrongMeat-

[djlogik]

Nice simple guide for the newbies, and the uneducated.

[StrongMeat]

Thanks, just trying to share my method

-StrongMeat-

[sharpieblet]

You're cutting guidelines are practically identical to mine. And you can go a long way on those. I've yet to resort to carb counting/cycling and meal timing and still have made amazing progress.

[Canonfat]

Nice post

[StrongMeat]

You're cutting guidelines are practically identical to mine. And you can go a long way on those. I've yet to resort to carb counting/cycling and meal timing and still have made amazing progress.

if i remember correctly you were one of the first people to help me out when i signed on in bb.com, im grateful

i can see my abs when i flex and fit a size 30 down from 38. probably going to continue cutting to 150-155.

I want to say that the method should work down in the low bf% ranges but i cant help but feel the closer you are to <10% the more protein youll need to prevent muscle loss, while normally id say eat 1g per lb of LBM i think its more when you are that low, subsequently im eating at minimum 15 cals per 1 gram of protein since hitting 170

-StrongMeat-

[nicscoffee]

Were is the like button ? Good work.

[StrongMeat]

did it for the people



-StrongMeat-

[creepa200]

Thought I'd start looking decent around 150. I'm 8 pounds from that and still got moobs and a gut. Depressing but gotta keep pushing. So if you do reach your goal of where you thought you'd look good just use it for motivation to reach a new goal. We all set mini goals as it is so just look at it as one of them.

Good work on the guide and your weight loss.

[StrongMeat]

Thought I'd start looking decent around 150. I'm 8 pounds from that and still got moobs and a gut. Depressing but gotta keep pushing. So if you do reach your goal of where you thought you'd look good just use it for motivation to reach a new goal. We all set mini goals as it is so just look at it as one of them.

Good work on the guide and your weight loss.

It needs to be said that you dont always want to cut forever

LBM determines aesthetics more than BF% will.

If you have tons of LBM odds are you will look good, but you cant say the same for BF%

at a point many people need to realize when its time to stop cutting and build a better frame

cause at the end of the day the point is too look good and feel good. Noone wants to be a flabby mess at the end of the cut(I didn't, I wanted to be sexy and attract gangas)

eitherway, cutting is only half the battle(maybe even less) LBM at the end of the day is key to looks because without it youre just another skinny fat guy

-StrongMeat-

[pvpchina]

hey, quick question about the calorie calculator. If i study 12 hours each day, - should i count it as resting or light? i got my maintain cal. to be 3000 doesnt seem right.

[StrongMeat]

hey, quick question about the calorie calculator. If i study 12 hours each day, - should i count it as resting or light? i got my maintain cal. to be 3000 doesnt seem right.

consider that resting

but @ 5'10 156lb fat loss isnt what you need, but rather building a base

thats if those numbers are correct

if you have pics that would help

EDIT - went ahead and did your numbers and your maintenance if you were working out 3xweek would be between 2300-2400...i would go ahead and bulk at 2600 until you develop a better base, then start cutting

-StrongMeat-

[jesusdm]

Thanks for the guide... I only lost like 7 pounds in 1 month and a half.... doing HIIT 30 mins + 40 mins low intensity cardio, +40 mins weight lifting... I gained some muscles for sure.. and lost around 2% body fat... tooo slow.
So today I posted about my case.. and ppl here advised me to track my food.. did it at fitday.com and I realized that only today breakfast and lunch I already ate 1800 cals. (and I thought today was a very light day), also I need more protein!
I'm going to start following your guide... however I dont mind making the cardio everyday.. I like it... so how do you recommend me to measure that in the calculator you gave in the guide... like 2 hours moderate.. 20 resting.. and 2 very light? Doing that my maintaince is 2380.. still very low.

[StrongMeat]

Thanks for the guide... I only lost like 7 pounds in 1 month and a half.... doing HIIT 30 mins + 40 mins low intensity cardio, +40 mins weight lifting... I gained some muscles for sure.. and lost around 2% body fat... tooo slow.
So today I posted about my case.. and ppl here advised me to track my food.. did it at fitday.com and I realized that only today breakfast and lunch I already ate 1800 cals. (and I thought today was a very light day), also I need more protein!
I'm going to start following your guide... however I dont mind making the cardio everyday.. I like it... so how do you recommend me to measure that in the calculator you gave in the guide... like 2 hours moderate.. 20 resting.. and 2 very light? Doing that my maintaince is 2380.. still very low.

you simply dont

Irrelevant factors:
Cardio(too inaccurate to track as an obese person, will cause you to overeat. Simply set a deficit number and hunker down)
Fat and Carb counting(if you are sticking to the ratio you cant fail, high protein foods are good foods if you are diligent)
Fasting(Does it work? Yes. Is it mentally challenging? Yes. this guide is dummyproof and allows you to eat like a normal person)
Eating Timing(see below)

If you want to do cardio, do it. Just dont count it against your cals

dietary deficit is the key, realize that at the end of the day for the goal of losing fat cardio plays very little role

Diet > Lifting >>>>>>>>>everything else

it seems like cardio is the way to go by common logic but its a false mindset birthed in the 1970s that still persists today, is it good for your cardiovascular system? VO2 max? overall endurance? of course, but for the goal of aesthetics it really doesnt make a difference if anything it saps blood glucose out of your system and creates seesaw weight results due to water weight loss/gain

-StrongMeat-

[paidinfull23]

great info man.

i've lost nearly 40 lbs in 2 months doing about 1.5 hrs a day of cardio and very little lifting. it is very time consuming but I am seeing results so I can't complain too much.

but you seem to not have much love for cardio and it's benefits in losing calories. do you think I should readjust my wkout at the 3 month mark to a more 50:50 ratio of lifting and cardio even though I've seen good results with a cardio heavy routine?

the mentality of an obese person is to just get skinny....even if it's skinny/fat that's fine b/c you just what to get down to that level first before worrying about strength levels. i guess thats why so many flock towards cardio when very overweight.

[jesusdm]

you simply dont



If you want to do cardio, do it. Just dont count it against your cals

dietary deficit is the key, realize that at the end of the day for the goal of losing fat cardio plays very little role

Diet > Lifting >>>>>>>>>everything else

it seems like cardio is the way to go by common logic but its a false mindset birthed in the 1970s that still persists today, is it good for your cardiovascular system? VO2 max? overall endurance? of course, but for the goal of aesthetics it really doesnt make a difference if anything it saps blood glucose out of your system and creates seesaw weight results due to water weight loss/gain

-StrongMeat-

Ok, in the past I've seen good progress doing cardio as well (8% body fat in 4 months) eating everything but in small quantity.. but ok, I beleive you....
can you explain me why lifting is better than HIIT for example?

And I want to calculate my maintaince calories with the tool you gave in your guide... what values (under activity) you recommend me to put in.. considering I do 30 mins HIIT 30 mins cardio 40 mins lifting... the rest of the day.. Im sitted most of the time. 20 resting, 2 very light, and 2 moderate? that gives me 2380. Does it sound right to you? Anyway I'm plannning to eat no more than 1700 a day.

[StrongMeat]

Ok, in the past I've seen good progress doing cardio as well (8% body fat in 4 months) eating everything but in small quantity.. but ok, I beleive you....
can you explain me why lifting is better than HIIT for example?

And I want to calculate my maintaince calories with the tool you gave in your guide... what values (under activity) you recommend me to put in.. considering I do 30 mins HIIT 30 mins cardio 40 mins lifting... the rest of the day.. Im sitted most of the time. 20 resting, 2 very light, and 2 moderate? that gives me 2380. Does it sound right to you? Anyway I'm plannning to eat no more than 1700 a day.

follow the guide as is that means 20 resting, 3 very light, 1 moderate

HIIT isnt bad for you by any means, but it doesnt speed up the process of fat loss either anymore than a dietary deficit

so you might say,well why not do both? The point isnt to just lose weight but look good at the end. Right?

responding to paid/yourself the biggest key to making sure your "number" losses on the scale are fat is to preserve as MUCH MUSCLE AS POSSIBLE! cardio does NOT achieve this by any means, HIIT, LISS it doesnt matter neither are as muscle sparing as lifting. Thus the reason to lift

if you have the energy and the drive to include cardio, so be it, just realize that cardio eats away at energy in this order

ATP/CP/glycogen in muscle >> Blood sugars/proteins >>> fat

eitherway, i wont force you to not do cardio. I can only speak from my personal experience and what Ive read from other more establish posters here. regardless if you do cardio or not, Lifting should always take precedence

FWIW I also do HIIT(sprints in my parking lot) once a week to keep a relative amount of speed/real world athleticism, but i dont rely on it for my cutting. I have the same numbers everyday.

See my sig, even coming in at 179 im well ahead of most cutters doing what ive listed at the top of this thread

-StrongMeat-

[oomalikoo]

but is your diet the reason the stretch marks are gonna be harder to eliminate?

[StrongMeat]

but is your diet the reason the stretch marks are gonna be harder to eliminate?

FWIW I had stretch marks on my sides well before i blew up to 220(going from 140 > 180)

the front stretch marks were a result of going from 180 > 220

not moisturizing and gaining weight too quickly is the only reason for stretch marks. They dont simply go away sadly

-StrongMeat-

[oomalikoo]

You're an avid smoker, how many breaks did you have to take between exercising. Is that why you hate cardio too? I remember when i got on that elliptical 10 minutes had me coughing up my lungs

[StrongMeat]

You're an avid smoker, how many breaks did you have to take between exercising. Is that why you hate cardio too? I remember when i got on that elliptical 10 minutes had me coughing up my lungs

0 breaks

even when i do sprints, i finish out

despite smoking marlboros for years I don't suffer from that, but i am in no way advocating smoking as a weight loss device or that isnt harmful to you

-StrongMeat-

[oomalikoo]

0 breaks

even when i do sprints, i finish out

despite smoking marlboros for years I don't suffer from that, but i am in no way advocating smoking as a weight loss device or that isnt harmful to you

-StrongMeat-

[StrongMeat]

maybe its genetics



-StrongMeat-

[StrongMeat]

Your humongous forehead and receding hairline begs to differ

-StrongMeat-

[paidinfull23]

follow the guide as is that means 20 resting, 3 very light, 1 moderate

HIIT isnt bad for you by any means, but it doesnt speed up the process of fat loss either anymore than a dietary deficit

so you might say,well why not do both? The point isnt to just lose weight but look good at the end. Right?

responding to paid/yourself the biggest key to making sure your "number" losses on the scale are fat is to preserve as MUCH MUSCLE AS POSSIBLE! cardio does NOT achieve this by any means, HIIT, LISS it doesnt matter neither are as muscle sparing as lifting. Thus the reason to lift

if you have the energy and the drive to include cardio, so be it, just realize that cardio eats away at energy in this order

ATP/CP/glycogen in muscle >> Blood sugars/proteins >>> fat

eitherway, i wont force you to not do cardio. I can only speak from my personal experience and what Ive read from other more establish posters here. regardless if you do cardio or not, Lifting should always take precedence

FWIW I also do HIIT(sprints in my parking lot) once a week to keep a relative amount of speed/real world athleticism, but i dont rely on it for my cutting. I have the same numbers everyday.

See my sig, even coming in at 179 im well ahead of most cutters doing what ive listed at the top of this thread

-StrongMeat-

ok thanks man.

i gained a lot of weight after i graduated b/c i got a little down on myself after graduating and not being able to find a job in my field. drank, smoked, ate out like crazy for almost a year. don't really have a athletic background so I felt it would be best to get my endurance up first using cardio.

anyways i am 6'2...i was 278 lbs on february 15th, i'm 240 lbs today....my goal is to be 180-190 by the end of the year. on may 15th it will be the 3 month mark of me starting and will be adding lifting exercises to my daily routine (i work out mon-sat, 6 days a week).

right now I eat 600-700 calorie deficit, only drink water, and eat at home. quit smoking and drinking. so i think i got the nutrition part down.

my question for you is can you recommend a good lifting routine to do maybe 3 or 4 days a week? since i am going to the gym 6 days a week and doing a good amount of cardio, i think i only want to lift half of those days.

thks.

[paidinfull23]

also is the reason you and the majority here swear by lifting when cutting/losing weight is b/c it burns more calories than cardio or b/c it will prevent the skinny/fat look when i actually get down to my desirable weight?

thks.

[idz21]

also is the reason you and the majority here swear by lifting when cutting/losing weight is b/c it burns more calories than cardio or b/c it will prevent the skinny/fat look when i actually get down to my desirable weight?

thks.

You can't really stop skinny fat if you don't have muscle to begin with. There are a ton of guys (just read this forum everyday) who get down to the weight they thought they needed to be and still looked SF. They cut further with no real visible results. They needed a solid bulking cycle and cut. Maybe more than once for just satisfactory results.

That said, lifting preserves muscle and gives n00b gains (which are finite when calorie restricting, don't expect much). Also, you have to learn how to lift. Lifting properly with no experience is a process that takes a while. Been lifting for 4 months, and still find things I could do better. Also, it's awesome... Really. You'll feel amazing once you get going.



Strongmeat - Questions for you.

1). When using that calculator, it says I can input my height or bf%. Which did you do? By inputing my numbers, and guessing my BF (same weight as you're when you started and we're the same height), I get 2100 as my number (maintenance). Obviously the numbers differ when you input height (around 2600 cals maintenance). Which did you do?

2). Macro breakdown? I'm sure you used WL's formula, but I'm looking for specific numbers.

[StrongMeat]

Strongmeat - Questions for you.

1). When using that calculator, it says I can input my height or bf%. Which did you do? By inputing my numbers, and guessing my BF (same weight as you're when you started and we're the same height), I get 2100 as my number (maintenance). Obviously the numbers differ when you input height (around 2600 cals maintenance). Which did you do?

2). Macro breakdown? I'm sure you used WL's formula, but I'm looking for specific numbers.

1)Im willing to bet the BF% option is more accurate, but back to a point i made in the original post, almost noone knows their real BF% especially an obese person, its better to underestimate your maintenance than overestimate
2)While individual macros mean alot when getting close to single digits, i dont think fat and carb content are as important to a heavier person(or beginner) thus the emphasis on the 20calorie per 1 gram of protein

protein truly is the limiting factor in food, As ive gotten leaner I am shooting for smaller and smaller ratios(IE 20/1 > 15/1 > 10>1)

Im not too certain carb and fat specificity are as important for cutting as people would have you believe but then again my journey isn't over yet so take it for its worth

Ive literally only paid attention to protein #s with no less than a 100g per day(generally in the 150 range)

to paid, idz basically answered the question.

it needs to be stated, losing FAT is the goal, not just weight in general. When you cut calories, your body turns on itself for energy. Only by proper stimulus can you coerce the body into targeting mainly fat, and that is done by strength training.

considering you are a beginner, i recommend StrongLifts its a good routine and can help you build a base, once you can squat your own body weight(relax dont expect 270, more like 180 or so) consider some of the hypertrophy splits(its my understanding that without a good base, hypertrophy is relatively worthless) key being strength routines(higher weight less reps) preserve muscle the best and considering youre a beginner its a surefire way to not only lose some fat but also gain some muscle for a short time before you stall out, i cant say the same for a hypertrophy routine

good luck

-StrongMeat-