New Workout - Trying to put on 5-10 pounds while cutting about 2% body fat

[Cidocea]

Hello all, I'm looking at starting a new workout soon, but I'm looking for constructive criticism and advice before doing so. Before I say anything though, I'll start with myself and what I'm looking for. I'm a 24 year male old grad-student and, as the thread title mentions, I'm looking to change things up a bit. I'm 6'0" 173lbs at an estimated 10-11% body fat. I'd consider myself decently strong for my size, as I bench around 300 max; however I don't generally lift very heavy otherwise. I've been lifting and actively exercising for almost 12 years now, so I'm no stranger to the gym. I don't take supplements, other than a multivitamin in the morning, whey protein post-workout, and casein protein before bed. However, I've heard about the benefits of taking glutamine, CLAs, and creatine and am open to suggestions on these supplements. My goal is to ultimately put on a few pounds of lean muscle and cut down a bit of body fat. Ideally, I'd like to weigh in at about 180lbs at 6-8% body fat. I have defined abs and obliques, but my body likes to store a bit of body fat on my lower back. This is another thing I'd like to get rid of.

As of right now, and for the past few years, I've lifting 3 days per week, doing heavy cardio 3 days per week, and resting on the 7th day. When I lift, I generally spend 20-30 minutes beforehand doing cardio, either on a bike or an elliptical machine, and spend roughly 75 minutes conducting a full-body workout, not favoring one muscle group over the other. On my cardio days, I do abs and I split the rest of the time between biking, elliptical, running, hitting/kicking a heavy bag, jump rope, etc. I'm an active runner and am not opposed (actually I embrace it) running a lot.

My diet is pretty consistent. I won't go into major details, but I always hit/exceed my fruit/vegetable servings, get most of my carbs from fruits, vegetables, and whole grain sources, cut out carbs after 8pm, rarely eat dessert, and consume roughly 200-210g of protein per day.

I'm looking at changing up my workouts to a 4 day split of lifting, while reserving 2 days for heavy cardio, and 1 day of rest. I want to do something like the following...

Monday/Thursday: Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, w/ 20-30 mins of cardio beforehand.
Tuesday/Friday: Biceps, Back (upper and lower), legs, w/ 20-30 mins of cardio beforehand
Wednesday/Saturday: 25-30 mins of abs w/ the rest divided between cardio as mentioned above

I'm really looking for any suggestions on what to change in my workouts and my diet. I realize I may be going slightly heavy on the cardio side, but I truly enjoy cardio and would like to continue with it as much as I can. Keep in mind, this is not a "help me get abs/obliques" thread; I'm just wanting suggestions on what I've mentioned above. Thanks!

[ironwill2008]

Your goals aren't realistic. Cutting to "6 to 8% " while adding even a 'few pounds' of muscle isn't going to happen.

[Grant73]

Why are you doing 25-30 min of cardio before you lift? You are burning precious glycogen which your muscles primary energy source for lifting.

[ktj4l]

Cutting and adding muscle mass are polar opposites. For one you need a caloric deficit and for the other you need a caloric surplus. Choose a primary goal for now and go after that. And dipping below 10% body fat really only makes sense for bodybuilders planning to go on stage soon or fitness models. It will have a serious impact on your strength.

You must be rail thin or well on your way to it with all that cardio. Why would you do 20+mins of cardio before lifting? It's counterproductive.

If you want to keep doing all that cardio, dial back the lifting. A body part split is far from optimal if you want any chance at all at hanging on to some muscle mass.

Long bouts of cardio will ultimately lead you to the physique of a marathon runner.

[TheBiz1214]

Cut out almost all cardio and focus heavily on weight lifting, the calories that you are consuming go towards building muscle instead of just wasting away with pure cardio, even if you're eating at a deficit. Get into weight lifting 4 times a week and cardio 1-2 times and focus on 1 or 2 muscles per session with 3-4 exercises each. Gaining 5-10 lbs is a big stretch but you will still build more muscle at your current weight and eventually burn off body fat with the extra weight lifting...

[Grant73]

Another thing that may help is to eat less calories on your non lifting days. Cut back carbs by about 40-50 grams.

[Cidocea]

I do 25-30 minutes of cardio before I lift because I'm trying to be as lean as can be. I posted this thread because I'm looking for constructive criticism and advice. I understand I can't effectively cut weight and gain muscle at the same time. After re-reading my post, I realize it makes it sound as if this is my goal, but I know I need to separate the two. Should I then cut first, build back up, and then cut down till I'm satisfied? I've done this before, but I've never quite been satisfied with the results.

I'm not questioning, but please explain why 20-30 minutes of cardio is counterproductive. Grant73 said I'm burning glycogen on cardio when I could use it for lifting, but I never feel tired or worn out after cardio. I suppose I could have more strength for lifting if I didn't do cardio beforehand; is this the reason?

TheBiz, why cut out all cardio? If I'm trying to cut weight first, isn't this then counterproductive? I understand to build back muscle I need all the calories I can get to do so, but cutting out all cardio is going to result in more fat than I want. Am I wrong here?

Also, I'm very thin (as I said, 6'0" 173 10-11% body fat est.), but I'm far from rail thin.

Thanks guys.

[Grant73]

I do 25-30 minutes of cardio before I lift because I'm trying to be as lean as can be. I posted this thread because I'm looking for constructive criticism and advice. I understand I can't effectively cut weight and gain muscle at the same time. After re-reading my post, I realize it makes it sound as if this is my goal, but I know I need to separate the two. Should I then cut first, build back up, and then cut down till I'm satisfied? I've done this before, but I've never quite been satisfied with the results.

I'm not questioning, but please explain why 20-30 minutes of cardio is counterproductive. Grant73 said I'm burning glycogen on cardio when I could use it for lifting, but I never feel tired or worn out after cardio. I suppose I could have more strength for lifting if I didn't do cardio beforehand; is this the reason?

TheBiz, why cut out all cardio? If I'm trying to cut weight first, isn't this then counterproductive? I understand to build back muscle I need all the calories I can get to do so, but cutting out all cardio is going to result in more fat than I want. Am I wrong here?

Also, I'm very thin (as I said, 6'0" 173 10-11% body fat est.), but I'm far from rail thin.

Thanks guys.

You will have more energy for lifting but that's not the only reason. If you have little to no glycogen when lift, your body will then begin using muscle as energy. Your body uses little to no fat as an energy source when you lift. You could lift first then do 15-20 min of cardio after. By the time you do your cardio session, most of your glycogen will have been used and you will begin to burn fat. Or you just separate cardio and lifting by 4-8hrs.

[Cidocea]

I was debating on just doing cardio in the morning and then lifting in the evening, although this doesn't always fit my time schedule. If I shift cardio to afterwards however, won't I still run into the same glycogen problem? I mean, if I do 15-20 minutes of cardio after I'm done lifting and my glycogen is gone, won't I then be using muscle for energy the same as doing it beforehand?

[TheBiz1214]

TheBiz, why cut out all cardio? If I'm trying to cut weight first, isn't this then counterproductive? I understand to build back muscle I need all the calories I can get to do so, but cutting out all cardio is going to result in more fat than I want. Am I wrong here?

Also, I'm very thin (as I said, 6'0" 173 10-11% body fat est.), but I'm far from rail thin.

Thanks guys.

It doesn't have to be all the cardio, but if you're eating the right amount of calories or a bit more to maintain your current weight and mostly weight lift you can gain the right amount of muscle you want without gaining fat. All that cardio sounds like way too much unless you're eating sufficient calories to maintain that much exercise and still gain muscle, which would have to be more than 3k. By simply counting the calories that your body needs to maintain your current weight and adding 2-400 extra, you should be able to just do weight lifting and gain some more muscle while cutting out body fat. And I believe that glycogen is used as the first energy source when you exercise, so it is better to burn this energy source by lifting weights first so that you aren't using muscle as an energy source, then cardio after would burn more fat.

[Grant73]

Gain slowly at a rate of 2lbs per. month. This will keep your bf gains to a minimum. If you try to gain too quick then cut you will more than likely gain very little muscle. If you try to cut 1st your bf may be too low and this may lower testosterone production.

[Jasonk282]

You can't gain weight and lower your bodyfat. You need to choose one and do it.

[Cidocea]

Alright, that makes more sense. So what you guys are saying however, is that I should devote more of my exercise time to lifting. For instance right now I lift approximately 4 hours and do approximately 6 hours of cardio over the span of a week. Should I then shift this to let's say 6 hours of lifting and 4 hours of cardio? I suppose this will allow me to put more time into actual training of specific muscle groups and conducting separate lifting exercises that I hadn't done before, while essentially burning the same or close to the same amount of calories.

I know it's different for everyone and I appreciate your guys help. I'm just trying to figure this out haha. And I know nutrition plays a huge part in this scheme, but I feel like my diet is pretty solid and easy to tweak based on what I'm doing at the time.

[TheBiz1214]

You can't gain weight and lower your bodyfat. You need to choose one and do it.

It's crazy how that belief is so permanent on this forum and that the only way is by "bulking and cutting" or vice versa. I've lost sufficient weight/BF while strengthening/gaining muscle for the last 2 years and continue to do so on a 2400 calorie diet.

[Grant73]

I was debating on just doing cardio in the morning and then lifting in the evening, although this doesn't always fit my time schedule. If I shift cardio to afterwards however, won't I still run into the same glycogen problem? I mean, if I do 15-20 minutes of cardio after I'm done lifting and my glycogen is gone, won't I then be using muscle for energy the same as doing it beforehand?

As long as you are not doing high intensity, then you will not have to worry about loosing muscle. In fact it may even aid in recovery.

[Cidocea]

As long as you are not doing high intensity, then you will not have to worry about loosing muscle. In fact it may even aid in recovery.

I generally just ride the bike, do the elliptical, or run at a 7min/mile pace, so nothing too intense. Thanks again guys; I appreciate it.

[Lendogg]

The title made me lol.